Reading Ivan Ilyin's 'On Resistance to Evil by Force' w/ Dr. Matthew Raphael Johnson - Pt. 21

Summary

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The Pete Quiñones Show

Episode: Reading Ivan Ilyin's 'On Resistance to Evil by Force' w/ Dr. Matthew Raphael Johnson - Pt. 21

Date: July 29, 2026
Host: Pete Quiñones
Guest: Dr. Matthew Raphael Johnson

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Episode Overview

This episode continues Pete Quiñones and Dr. Matthew Raphael Johnson’s deep reading and discussion of Ivan Ilyin’s On Resistance to Evil by Force, focusing on Chapter 14: "About the Object of Love." The conversation traverses the distinctions between true resistance to evil, the spiritual basis of love, the dangers of materialism and utilitarianism, and the necessity of a God-centered worldview. Throughout, the hosts contrast blind or sentimentalized love with spiritually grounded love that resists evil and guides both personal and societal transformation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Importance of Nuance, Guidance & Full-Time Engagement

• Nuance in Analysis: Dr. Johnson notes that most people lack nuance in addressing complex topics, often falling into simplistic or conspiratorial thinking (03:35).
• Role of Intellectuals: Both hosts argue for the critical importance of having educated, full-time thinkers supported by their audiences to effectively challenge corrupt regimes and guide opposition movements.
  • "It takes educated, full time people and therefore the support of listeners and readers or else nothing happens ... Something new comes up." (Dr. Johnson, 03:35)
• Dangers of Overzealous Radicalization: Host shares concerns about individuals quickly becoming "red pilled" online and risking self-destruction due to lack of restraint or understanding.
  • "You know, I'm trying to save his bank account and trying to save, you know, maybe his job or something like that." (Host, 05:45)

The Nature of Resistance and the Object of Love (Ch. 14)

• Evil vs. Good Resistance: The struggle against evil only makes sense from the perspective of "living goodness." When evil combats evil, it does not amount to true resistance, only further entrenchment of evil (07:47).
• Paraphrasing Dostoevsky:
  • "In Dostoevsky's words, one reptile will devour another reptile, and in devouring it will find its own end." (Host, 07:47)
  • "Yeah, the enemy of my enemy isn't necessarily my friend." (Dr. Johnson, 08:55)
• Superficial “Resistance”: The hosts critique movements or individuals who appear to resist evil but actually serve other forms of malice, e.g., intra-oligarchic battles masquerading as revolution.

Spiritualized Love Versus Blind Passion

• Love Needs Spiritual Direction: The capability to resist evil by force flows not from passion alone, but from "spiritualized love," which reveals and strengthens the soul’s fidelity and mission (14:32).
• Cautions Against Decadent “Love”:
  • "Love taken in itself, independent of the spiritual life... is the beginning of blind passion." (Host, 17:40)
  • "...there's a word more misconstrued and manipulated than love. Because we're called haters every day. I don't know why they hate us probably a lot more than we hate them..." (Dr. Johnson, 19:34)
• Need for Guidance and Moderation: Rapid conversion or zealousness in any cause (faith, nationalism, etc.), untempered by wisdom and guidance, often leads to self-destruction (18:17).

Christian Anthropology: Love’s True Object

• Love’s Goal is the Divine: Only the soul seeking divine perfection finds fulfillment, union, and tireless energy (29:24).
  • "True human achievement begins when passion cleaves to the divine object..." (Host, 29:24)
• Integration of Commandments: The hosts elaborate on Christ’s two greatest commandments—love of God first, then love of neighbor. The latter is impossible without fulfilling the former (31:22).
  • "Fulfilling the first commandment reveals God to man and thereby generally opens his spiritual eyes. But precisely for this reason, the fulfillment of the second commandment is impossible outside of and apart from the first." (Host, 32:40)
• Individual, Community, and Nation: Dr. Johnson critiques the modern (utilitarian or libertarian) emphasis on individualism over communal and spiritual ties, highlighting the necessity of a hierarchy rooted in the sacred and traditional aristocracy (48:11).

Critique of Utilitarianism & Materialist Worldview

• False Equivalence, Commodification: Utilitarianism, materialism, and secularism flatten human value and promote an empty, egalitarian mass society.
  • "Thus, the ordinary, religiously blind views hold that the useful is superior to the sacred ... It believes that hunger and suffering are the most terrible things and that life on earth is all the better for it." (Host, 57:03)
  • "If everyone is equal, then a thousand people is better than one. But that's not necessarily the case. The truth is, we know that for a fact... Suffering isn't a terrible thing. Suffering is something that could bring you to a new stage in life..." (Dr. Johnson, 61:51)
• Godless Nationalism is Empty: Host and guest stress that nationalism without a spiritual (Christian) core easily devolves into totalitarianism or unhealthy statism.

Christian Hierarchy of Values

• Sacred over Useful, Spirit over Flesh:
  • "Spiritual love sees and evaluates all this quite differently. For it, the sacred is always higher than the useful. Earthly harm is not absolutely terrifying. And our benefit is unattractive." (Host, 61:17)
• Not all lives or actions are equal: The hosts stress that true love recognizes gradations of value, transformation through suffering, and the basic spiritual inequality among people (63:48).
  • "There are people for whom it is better not to be born, and there are others for whom it is better to be killed than to commit evil." (Host, 63:48)

Cultural, Historical, and Political Examples

• Pagans, Monotheism, and Social Order:
  • "Only a monotheistic society can have or can even demand order, because there's one that you point to, not the many." (Host, 66:21)
• Christian Influence: Banning Infanticide, Usury: The moral revolution wrought by Christianity, including opposition to certain pagan practices (65:43).
• Modern “Talmudic” Retaliation: Host warns against becoming like one’s enemy—namely, embracing indiscriminate destruction or retaliatory cruelty (69:42).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "It takes educated, full-time people and therefore the support of listeners and readers, or else nothing happens. Especially at this day and age." – Dr. Johnson (03:35)
• "The enemy of my enemy isn't necessarily my friend." – Dr. Johnson (08:55)
• "Love taken in itself, independent of the spiritual life, its object, its goal and its tasks is the beginning of blind passion...Love is a certain openness of the soul. But even that which is unworthy of love can freely enter into a receptive soul." – Host reading Ilyin (17:40)
• "Even something as rational as ethno-nationalism...without the spiritual life...can be perverted very quickly...without that further purpose, you get to totalitarianism." – Dr. Johnson (23:53)
• "Only the spirit...reveals to man the true, genuine, worthy object of his love. That object with which in itself is higher than the world, but which is hidden in nature, in things and people and human relationships and creations. Which is worth living for, worth loving, and for which therefore it is worth dying for." – Host reading Ilyin (27:08)
• "Fulfilling the first commandment reveals God to man and thereby...opens his spiritual eyes. But precisely for this reason, the fulfillment of the second commandment is impossible outside of and apart from the first." – Host reading Ilyin (32:40)
• "You have to get out of the mindset that the only way to defeat your enemy is to become them. Because the reason they're your enemy is because they're not like you. Why are you going to become them? ...they're antithetical to everything that you are." – Host (71:40)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Nuance, Intellectual Labor & Support: 03:35–07:14
• Enemy of My Enemy & Oligarchy: 07:47–11:24
• Nature of Spiritual Love: 14:32–21:32
• Misuse of “Love” and Blind Passion: 19:34–23:53
• Spiritual Love & the Divine Object: 27:08–32:40
• Love, Community, and the Individual: 47:35–51:07
• Utilitarianism vs. Sacred Hierarchy: 57:03–61:51
• Godless Nationalism & Pagan Comparisons: 65:43–67:44
• Dangers of Becoming One's Enemy: 69:42–72:03

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Tone & Style

The conversation is deeply philosophical, weaving together literary references (Dostoevsky, Hegel, Plato), Christian theology, personal anecdotes, and contemporary political critique. Both speakers use direct, sometimes blunt, language and address controversial subjects with a polemical edge. The tone alternates between scholarly rigor and conversational candor, occasionally using humor or strong language to underscore key points.

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Conclusion

This episode reflects a rigorous and searching examination of Ivan Ilyin’s account of resistance to evil, the true nature of love, and the necessity of rooting both personal and collective action in the spiritual life. The hosts underscore the perils of unanchored passion, materialism, and secular nationalism, consistently returning to the importance of spiritual discernment, Christian anthropology, and historical consciousness as the antidotes to modern and perennial forms of evil.

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For further reading or support of Dr. Johnson and Pete Quiñones, listeners are encouraged to check the show notes.

Transcript

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[Dr. Johnson]

Sam.

[Podcast Host]

With election time approaching, political ads will be inserted into the episode along with other ads that frankly I'm not going to like and you aren't going to like. So please ignore them, skip by them, whatever you have to do. I don't endorse any of the ads that are inserted, but it is another way for me to generate income so I appreciate you guys putting up with them. If you don't want to deal with them, go to the peak and yonas show.com you can subscribe through Patreon, you can subscribe through Substack, which is my preferred one because with both of those you get an RSS feed. Only Patreon and only Substack give you an RSS feed. There's also a link to my website Gumroad and Subscribestar where you will get the audio files that you can download and listen to or you can stream in most cases through those locations as well. So if you want to avoid the ads, consider supporting the show. If not, just know none of these ads get any endorsement from me. Skip by them, do what you need to do. I appreciate all of you. Head on over to the Peak and yonashow.com you can get the show early and ad free over there. If not, here's the show. I want to welcome everyone back to our reading of On Resistance to Evil by Force by Ivan Ilene. Dr. Johnson, what's going on today, man?

[Dr. Johnson]

Well, you know, we were just talking just before we, we, you hit the record button about how important being a full timer is. You know, I was the editor of the Barnes Review for several years and the crazy conspiracies, the theories that I used to get and like you say, not in a good way, in a stupid way, by the boatload, people don't think in terms of nuance, which is why, you know, imagine those people reading this book or trying to read this book and what they'd come up with. It takes educated, full time people and therefore the support of listeners and readers or else nothing happens. Especially at this day and age. We're living in an age, you know, criticism of Israel is mainstream for the first time in ages. Stuff that we've been saying for 20 years, 30 years is now pretty normal in the Republican Party. Things can change very, very, very quickly and there has to be a group of people to comprehend it and guide it as it goes down. Something new comes up.

[Podcast Host]

Well, I think a lot of those people will just, you know, if you, if you apply nuance to anything, they'll just call you a gatekeeper.

[Dr. Johnson]

So yeah, they always say that because again, they think in these simple terms, which is why, you know, books like this are important. People like me and you are important. And the support of our readers are, I know many of our listeners, you know, they can't do this full time, but they can be a huge part of it by assisting us and doing it full time. That's, that's bringing down the regime even more.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, the, I was watching somebody who, on Twitter who is a statistics guy and recently he got, he started getting red pilled on race and on the JQ and he's, and he's going overboard and he's going to get himself kicked off of it. And he, I mean, he's just, he just, he's not handling it very well. And you know, my idea was if I can reach out to him and talk to him. And I told that to my wife and my wife said, you know what people on Twitter are going to say, if you do that right, you're just a gatekeeper. You're trying to de. Radicalize him. And it's like, no, I'm trying to save his bank account and trying to save, you know, maybe his job or something like that. But, you know, people who, People who, you know, who have these, you know, who are anonymous on Twitter and all they do is call everyone a Jew who disagrees with them. You know, they think that by calling everyone a Jew who disagrees with them that somehow they're helping.

[Dr. Johnson]

Yeah, they think they're somehow they're. They're helping the, the situation. I had that when I used to have a Facebook account. So I no longer have. You know, there's a lot of great things about having it, a lot of stress about having it, and the stress lay exactly in what we're talking about here.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. All right, let's get going. New chapter.

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[Podcast Host]

Chapter 14, about the object of love. And, oh, I told Dr. Johnson right before we started this, people listening, that I have a physical copy of this book and it looks like we're about halfway done. So might only get 50 or so episodes out of this instead of 127.

[Dr. Johnson]

Yeah, only 50 hours. My God, we're slacking.

[Podcast Host]

Chapter 14, about the object of love. Posing, posing and exploring the question of resistance to evil makes sense only from the perspective of living goodness. For to discover evil, to comprehend its quality and nature, and to resist it, accepting the struggle against it, but not accepting it, this is precisely the task of goodness revealed only to it and in its resolution as accessible only to it. The struggle against evil waged by an evil being out of the will to evil and for the sake of evil is not resistance to evil, but rather service to it and its inculcation. Moreover, it is certainly not excluded that the clash of two evil principles will weaken one or even both of them. In Dostoevsky's words, one reptile will devour another reptile, and in devouring it will find its own end. However, it is clear that none of these evil principles resist evil as such, but each creates its own evil, and only the clash of their evil intentions and evil energies weakens and destroys the opposing adversaries.

[Dr. Johnson]

Yeah, the enemy of my enemy isn't necessarily my friend. We may be cordial when we see each other, but he is, he is not my friend. I know that, like the, the Crowleyites in Britain tried to pass themselves off as, as, you know, far rightists for a while because, you know, they, they love Nietzsche and they tried to force that into, into his, into his mentality. And you know, it does, it takes again, it takes nuance. It takes someone to be able to take that apart brick by brick because superficially it sounds wonderful. So you do have evil people, evil beings, evil institutions pretending they're not actually strongly pretending to struggle against evil. Or if anything, it's two factions of the, of the oligarchy that, that are at war with one another. Which, you know, I mean a revolution tends to be a faction of the oligarchy at war with the rest of them. And not, not necessarily, but it's very important to understand that this is when things get very, very, very complicated just to ask. And this is also not to be a purist, you know, to be a, a holier than thou, total, you know, fanatical purist about ideology, you know, but we have to be understanding. There's a lot of, there's a lot of very sensitive people out there. You never know what they're going to come across in their reading material or anything else. And yeah, it's hard to criticize without sounding like a jerk. I mean there's a way, there's a way to do it, I think. But I think this is very profound. And Dostoevsky, it's actually in reference to the, or the possessed great novel that he's talking about here.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

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[Podcast Host]

It is also clear that such an outcome, while easing the atmosphere of evil in the world, in no way resolves the problem of true resistance to evil, but only removes from the agenda isolated situations and conflicts, the acuteness of which lay precisely in the fact that the good is forced to fight evil on both fronts without at all confusing its own objective interests with those of both evil adversaries.

[Dr. Johnson]

It's sort of like that. It's been Islam that's been at war with Israel. This is not to support Islam, you know, either faction. I mean, it's not to do that. Islam has a lot of problems. I think the Jews were very much a part of its founding, and I have a lecture about that years ago. But, you know, when we support their agenda, we're not supporting Islam. We're supporting a further end that their. That their agenda is bringing about.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, and that's something that a lot of people. That's some nuance a lot of people can't get over. It's like, I'm not going to criticize Hamas or Hezbollah because they're fighting my enemy. And then immediately some. Some faggot on Twitter will be like, oh, you just want them all to come here, right? You want the Muslims to come here. It's like, I never said that. It's a total straw man. Can you go fuck yourself, please? I will go on and we will talk a little bit more about love.

[Dr. Johnson]

Yes, sir.

[Podcast Host]

That which can re. That which can resist evil to evil itself is living goodness. This means that resistance to evil stems from spiritualized love and is realized by it. It manifests it, serves it, leads to it, implants it, grows it, and strengthens it. Yet this resistance does not stop before either mental coercion or physical coercion and suppression. How is this possible? It is possible because the principle of the spirit indicates to love its true object, limits it, and modifies its appearance and its manifestation. And above all, it shows her her object, thereby imparting to her fidelity and strength.

[Dr. Johnson]

You know, St. Augustine spoke of this at great length, that what you want to achieve, the goal you want has to be permanent. There's only one thing in the world that's permanent. That's God himself and his manifestations. The justice of Chalcedon, everything else we've spoken of so far. It's God himself. That's the one thing that won't go away. They can't take it away from you. The liturgy in the camps with a cracker and a grape shows exactly, you know, how far that can go. Love without God. And you can't talk about the Spirit. You know, someone who believes in. In the Spirit without believing in God is irrational because you have to say to them, where the hell did the Spirit come from? Where's this origin? I understand materialism. You start talking about Spirit, something that isn't, you know, I define it as something that's not affected by, you know, it's not cause and effect. It's not something we could grab with our hands. Yeah, even something like a right. We talk about rights all the time. You can't, you know, many of the utilitarians came out and said, you, you know, said, no, we don't believe in that stuff. We don't believe in rights. Because that would imply the ultimate creator, anything spiritual, anything free actually, in this world would. This was Frank's great argument. If freedom exists, then God exists. And so we're talking about spiritualized love. We know what the left did with the word love in the late 60s. They didn't give a damn about people loving each other. Now, I don't think some of those activists were aware, say, what the north was doing to the south, what they were planning on doing to the south, what they were doing to the south at the time, that didn't even cross their minds. But they only cared about the victory of the North.

[Podcast Host]

Love taken in itself, independent of the spiritual life, its object, its goal and its tasks is the beginning of blind passion. It combines the power of attraction with spiritual helplessness, the regularity of instinct with spiritual randomness, a healthy biological infallibility with spiritual promiscuity and perversity. Love in itself is thirst and hunger, but these do not in themselves presuppose either the quality of drink or the worth of food. Love is a certain openness of the soul. But even that which is unworthy of love can freely enter into a receptive soul.

[Dr. Johnson]

Yeah, that's what I said. You never know. You have one of our. Or potentially one of our people, you know, we don't know what's coming across his desk. And then, as you said, they may take it too far because they don't really know that much about it. And worse, they go up against some specialists, some leftists, and they get destroyed in a debate because they can't go back and forth. They know the slogans, but they don't know the. They don't know how to follow it up. And it's very careful. I know it's very exciting to discover this stuff for the first time. Platonism, Christianity, the true origin of justice. You know, it's. It's incredible when you discover this for the first time, but immediately jumping to the rooftops and saying, you know, debate me on this is a big mistake. And as you said, you know, you're trying to save the bank accounts. You got to be careful with it. There has to be a means of promoting it that isn't immediately self destructive. But even in terms of love itself. Yeah, I don't think there's a word

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more

[Dr. Johnson]

misconstrued and manipulated than love. Because we're called haters every day. I don't know why they hate us probably a lot more than we hate them, You know, but their, their concept of love somehow is, you know, indulgence and integration and stuff like that. It's whatever they feel like, you know, they fill it up with whatever they want. So it says here spiritual randomness. And then in terms of your romantic love, you know, that aspect of it, well, that gets to be. That's a disaster. How many horror movies start off with a couple on the beach? I know what you did last summer, which is about abortion, by the way. You know, it's a certain openness to the souls he writes here. But when it opens, there's a lot that can go into it. That's why there has to be a master. There has to be someone there to help you along.

[Podcast Host]

Love is attack, attraction and strength. But how often attraction deceives and strength is wasted or internally decomposes in the pursuit of a false goal. Love is acceptance. But not everything pleasant is spiritually acceptable. Love is compassion. But does everyone deserve it? Love is like a kind of tender song from the depths. But the depths of a non spiritual instinct can be moved by temptation and sing with the delight of sin. Love is the capacity for unification and identification with the beloved. But unity at a base level exhausts and gradually extinguishes this very capacity. While identification with evil can devour and distort the grace of love. Love is a creative labor. But is it really a matter of indifference what the Creator creates?

[Dr. Johnson]

You know, there's that line. Feminists use it quite often. Why is it that men who have a lot of women are called studs and are celebrated. And women who've had a lot of men are sluts and are denigrated. The answer to this is very simple and it's very apropos what we're talking about here. Number one, they are not necessarily celebrated. That's only in the very, very recent, in our recent history has that been the case. Prior to that they were, they were condemned. That's extremely important to, that's very important to, to keep in mind. But men and women don't want the same things. So it's not so much that the woman sex with a lot of guys is that she gives it away. She has one thing of value and she gives it away immediately. Well, what do women want out of men? Other time, you know, the relationship itself. And so the male version of the slut is non sexual. It's the guy that says I love you on a second date, the guy that pedestalizes the woman, that's the male version of a slut. And they're both equally very unattractive.

[Podcast Host]

Love without the spiritual life does not see and therefore it is objectless. It does not fly, but gropes its way, wandering and falling. It does not feel its own rightness and therefore weakens itself, sometimes with a vague, sometimes with a clear sense of self. It does not serve but enjoys. It does not build, but is exhausted. Its life is not a revival, but a dying. It does not flare up, but fades and smokes. This is why love without the spiritual life is blind, partial, selfish, subject to vulgarization and ugly. It is not yet good, but only contains a possibility of good. It is not a real value, but an unrealized force, not an achievement, but a deposit.

[Dr. Johnson]

Even something as rational as ethno nationalism, which I certainly am a promoter of. Without the spiritual life, without its further, you know, it serves a further purpose, can be perverted very quickly. Without that further purpose, you get to totalitarianism. You know, any, any positive thing without its, its true purpose ends up being destroyed. Your nationalism outside the church, you know, Orthodoxy has done very well in combining ethno nationalism and the church within itself. You know, Romania, Serbia, Bulgaria. I think it's a brilliant idea because they're both very similar. And like in Chalcedon, you can't stress one side or the other side. So love, love. And again, I don't know specifically, you know, he's using it all over the place here. I think we kind of get the context of what he's saying. But even someone who comes across the church for the first time and can't believe how wonderful it is and goes out and is screaming about it to everybody and loses everybody. And that's not necessarily a positive thing. Like you said, we're trying to save their bank accounts. We don't want to. Someone goes into work the next day with John Chrysostom's on the condemnation of the Jews. Says here, here, boss, I only care about the truth now. You know, there's, there's, there's love, then there's wisdom.

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[Podcast Host]

Only the spirit, the spiritual power in man, whatever it may be called. Spiritual taste, a flare for perfection, a vision of the divine, a God loving mind, etc. Only this power reveals to man the true, genuine, worthy object of his love. That object with which in itself is higher than the world, but which is hidden in nature, in things and people and human relationships and creations. Which is worth living for, worth loving, and for which therefore it is worth dying for.

[Dr. Johnson]

I'm pretty sure he's talking about logos here. I think that people who are steeped in sin, materialists who have no conception that they're even in sin, can see logos in the natural order. They see dead nature, that dead matter. I should say that they could use however they Want, they see opportunities for enrichment or power or something. That's what, you know, Christians don't see nature that way. Now Protestants, of course, are anomalous, they reject this concept, but especially your more extreme types. But you know, a God loving mind, that's something that has to be cultivated over time. It has to be quiet. It has to be, you know, we said this even in the Scholz and Eason book, the whole concept of I'm so humble, I'm more humble than you are. How contradictory that is to have a competition about that. And it's very important. And that's why a guide is so essential to all this stuff. To have someone there you can call or contact to bring you through difficult passages or a tough day. Because the guy who finds, you know, our, our stuff and then becomes a fanatic, that's very superficial. You know, they, they'll. They'll dump it if they find something else that's less expensive to have around.

[Podcast Host]

The soul that thirsts for this object is not doomed to hunger. The soul deserves to be open to this object. Attraction to it will not distract it or waste its strength. Union with it will give it righteousness, integrity and tireless energy and work and construction, identification with it will impart from will impart form, flight and fire to its personality. True human achievement begins when passion cleaves to the divine object, or in other words, when the ray of the perfect one penetrates the human soul to the very depths of its passionate senses. Then human passion begins to shine from its depths with the divine rays that penetrate it. And man himself becomes a particle, that divine fire. But only to this extent can man truly comprehend and fulfill Christ's two fundamental commandments of love and in their mutual connection. Love, in their mutual connection and sequence,

[Dr. Johnson]

even passion, if it's put in its proper place, is good. There's nothing God has created that isn't good. You know, Plato has three parts of the soul. It's that middle part that confuses a lot of people. You know, the bottom is kind of the ID at the top is reason. In the middle, it generally gets translated as spirited, maybe willful. That's. That becomes a problem for, for a lot of people. That's where passions, that's where the desire for power comes from. I'll be anything and etiologically, just so I can get power the same. You know, that's where it comes and it goes out to do it. Reason has to. It doesn't. You know, in Plato's mind, reason doesn't destroy the other Two parts of the psalm. It puts them in their proper order.

[Podcast Host]

Of these two commandments. The first directs the whole heart and the whole soul, and the whole understanding and the whole strength of the human being to God. The second teaches us to love our neighbor as ourselves. Matthew 22 Mark 12, Luke 10. He who fulfills the first commandment and turns to God with all his senses, all his imagination, all his mind and all his will, and in such a way that all these powers of the soul become saturated with love, is renewed in this spiritual union with his whole being and all his vision, and creates within himself a Son of God. And then turning to the world and people, he inevitably sees them in a new way and enters into new relationships with them. This new vision and attitude are determined by the fact that having learned through the fulfillment of the first commandment to correctly feel and imagine and think and desire the divine, and then for the first time finds in the world and in and in people that spiritual, that divine composition which in God and through God indicates to him his neighbor and awakens in the soul a genuine spiritual love for him. Fulfilling the first commandment reveals God to man and thereby generally opens his spiritual eyes. But precisely for this reason, the fulfillment of the second commandment is impossible outside of and apart from the first.

[Dr. Johnson]

And, and this is where people, you know, fail all the time in, in coming across this. It's not just, you know, it's not just orthodox. It's orthodox nationalism, might as well say orthodox justice or orthodox reality. It's not merely checking off, well, I believe this, I believe that, I believe that I'm fine. But it's putting it into motion and doing it, you know, at least initially, quietly, Even though, you know, you. It's not our fault. And this has been a huge problem for so many, let's say, converts to Catholicism or to Orthodoxy. By the time we come to convert to this stuff, we've been damaged severely. I wasn't raised in it. My father was an atheist. Although respected the church, my mother was a Sunday Christian. She loves having people watch her insurance. That's all she cared about. So I wasn't raised with anything. I think the fact that I was raised over a funeral home, seeing death all the time also helped focus me. It was important to my personal development realization that we are all going to die. And when you hit 50, that becomes even more powerful. It's not just a spiritual spa. Genuine spiritual love, not just going through the motions, not just checking off the list, The whole heart. And by the way, let me. Let me get this out of the way. The concept of the heart has. Because Catholicism and orthodoxy differ on this in this respect. Like, you know, the Immaculate Heart of Mary, that kind of thing in the west, you know, heart is the being of man. It's not that far away from the soul itself, but it's God's presence within you, and the soul takes part of that, or it doesn't. Then of course, the whole understanding, understanding is part of the soul and our whole strength or a whole will. And so we get more specific for each one of these as he lists those commandments of, you know, the whole heart, the whole soul, the whole understanding, whole strength. And then to love our neighbor as ourselves. Although the way Americans are, I don't know if that's really a good thing. I don't think. I don't think. I think white people are taught to hate themselves, but let's just say, you know, people want the best for themselves. The heart is. Is the core of something. It's something slightly beyond the essence. You're not going to get pure conceptual, you know, mathematical boundaries to this thing. The. The heart contains the soul, as Saint Thief on the Recluse would say. And as you see in that list above, you know, the Matthew, Mark and Luke, it gets more and more specific. And the whole strength. Then by the time you get to the strength, then he says, wait, make sure to love your neighbor as yourself. Do not go out demanding from people. Do not go out condemning people because they're not like you. They haven't figured this out yet. Finding a sensitive person, not an ignoramus. In other words, you know, there's a big difference between someone who is ignorant and someone who's stupid. I'm ignorant about physics. You know, we're all ignorant about something. Stupid is a different story. You know, stupid is just someone who just really can't understand physics, even if he tried to. Sensitive people tend to be of the. Of the former type. And they are searching, especially today, especially today. And I know, you know, we have. We're in two different churches, but our role as our world comes to an end. Is, Is. Is the same and bringing about the judgment because we will be judged here, but God will judge us, knowing full, full well that we were born. I was born in 1971. 1971. I mean, the sexual revolution was exploding when I went through puberty. Forget about it. You know, it was. You know, my sex ed came from ZZ Top videos on mtv. And it took me months to realize that you can get with a woman without having someone throw a ZZ key at you and disappear. Apparently that, you know, that was my sex ed back then. My mother and father certainly weren't gonna do that kind of thing. My father came from the old books or the old, old school mentality, which unfortunately didn't exist anymore. You wish it did, but it didn't. We call it the old books and the red pill, you know. And so his intentions were good, but his advice was usually terrible in that regard. So, you know, that's what we're talking love, love, love, love. You know, we end up talking about how we relate to women, the family. The family manifests in the nation. The nation, the monarchy's, the monarch's relation to God himself. These nesting entities, forms of love which quite frankly, the modern man can't comprehend. But there are some who are sensitive enough and they're searching for a way to think themselves and pray themselves out of this ridiculous regime and how it. How it torments people, especially white people.

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[Podcast Host]

that which must be loved in one's neighbor as oneself is not simply the earthly animal composition of man with all its animal self awareness, with all its earthly needs and pleasures, with all its pretentious self satisfaction. But it is a ray of God in another's soul, a particle of divine fire, a spiritual personality, and a son of God. True brotherhood of people is revealed only through God. Men become brothers only insofar as they are children of God. And what is impossible for man due to his animal inanimate instinct to love one another as oneself is not only possible, but necessary and inevitable for man as a spiritual being who has renewed his vision and his earthly perception in the integral love of God. For he who has learned to see and love the divine integrally will necessarily love this divine everywhere he sees and finds him.

[Dr. Johnson]

Yeah, he uses the word or I think I translated it, I think I did it properly. Integrally. To have integrity is to have the same personality. No matter who you're with, this is your identity. You know, nationalism without the church ends up being something along the lines of Mussolini's Italy. What's the difference between National Socialism and Germany and fascism in Muslim every Mussolini had been a communist. He was a materialist. He had just gotten out of that. Someone got in trouble for losing him. Lenin was very upset about that. But he said in his doctrine of fascism, the state creates the nation. That's something that no nationals can accept. National Socialism doesn't accept that. But that was absolutely the core of Mussolini's teaching on fascism. This is why National Socialist Germany was not a fascist. Society was fully based on a Struggling nationalism in the sense that the nation, the peoples create the state, not the other way around, because you have plenty of. Of nations that don't have states. So Mussolini was dead wrong about that. And of course, if I start talking about Mussolini, I'm not going to shut up. There's so many, so much wrong with him. He was successful in a few areas, but still there was no love there. There was only the state. There was only the entity. The state creates all these things you love, rather than the love coming first. So that's very important. Actually, I could be able to get to this, but Elyn wrote quite a bit about National Socialism and endless money.

[Podcast Host]

Moreover, he will always seek him in others, feeling connected first and foremost with him and through him and in him. Only he who has found and affirmed the Son of God within himself can love his neighbor as himself. For only he knows what the divine is and what it means to be in union with him. That is what it means to be a son of God. Only through this can he discern the Son of God in his neighbor and have. And having discerned him in him, he can no longer help but love him, but will love his divine, his personal temple and altar and fire, just as he loves his spirit and his fire and altar and temple.

[Dr. Johnson]

Yeah, this is something. We hit on this in our talks on Hagal, the existential problem of coming up, two people meet and the only thought that they have is that we're going to fight. And whoever wins becomes the master, the other one becomes a slave. And that much of history is based on it. Hegel, of course, you know, brings man out of that, saying that that's a very crude understanding of things. But, you know, the whole political theory of Darwin, Darwinism is based on it through Herbert Spencer. So. But nationalism without God isn't anything. Because, I mean, even the simple empirical fact that European nations are Christian ones. Everything from the. It's like, you know, I think we dealt with Solzhenitsyn too. Russian culture in the Soviet era. Well, there is no Russian culture in the Soviet era. Everything about Russian culture from the language on down was completely connected to the church. Nothing, even parts of the language, if you get very technical about it. Love comes first, then everything else.

[Podcast Host]

All this can be expressed as a genuine relationship with God precedes the establishment of true love for one's neighbor. For to love one's neighbor means to love the divine principle in him, the principle of living goodness. Love for God opens up a new dimension of things and people to man according to this dimension man is something greater than this singular animate animal. More than the singular subject. There is something greater within him than his subjectivity. And this greater super subjective is precisely his spirit, his essential being, the true self.

[Dr. Johnson]

I mean does the individual actually exist as any kind of usable construct? Everything about ourselves we get from somewhere else, from the language we use, the clothes we wear. This doesn't mean we're put up also, you know, if, if you had a nation without, without God, then you would just, it would just be a. I'd just be a cog in a machine. The Darwinist concept, that's all I would be with God. It's a different story because then you have spirit and with spirit you have freedom. But the individual is really up to promote it as the central figure rather than the family. The individual over the family. In political thought, the libertarians promote that very heavily. Is really the creation of industrialization. It was great to have one person going up against a huge corporation. Well yeah, legally they're equals but in reality of course there absolutely aren't. They could sign a contract and again legally they're equals. No, it's in places like Russia, which the Marxists destroyed. Landlords weren't dealing with individuals, they were dealing with many families put together within the commune. Was the case in Germany for a long time too. The first thing that man does, the first rational thing that man does regardless of how this comes about, is form a community. That community has some kind of hierarchy to it. An aristocracy. An aristocracy is very different from oligarchy. Let's get that straight. Aristocracy is the rule of the best, the wisest, the most experienced. Oligarchy is the rule of the few, largely based on money. It's the same thing as plutocracy. So your true self and because you know Ilyin is a Hegelian, I'm seeing Hegel all over this truly important here to see that. I'm seeing Hegel everywhere in this particular part of the part of the book. And notice he did capitalize the S. That's. I didn't do that. And it's something greater than just the simple individual who makes decisions every day. If I'm gonna go to the movies, if I'm gonna go make coffee, from that individual is largely mythical. Hey everybody.

[Podcast Host]

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[Podcast Host]

True love is the connection of spirit with spirit, and then to that extent, everything else. The connection of soul with soul and body with body. But precisely to this extent, there is no longer simply a connection between souls and bodies, but a spiritual connection among souls inspired and bodies sanctified by the spirit. True love connects the lover not with everything that exists and lives without distinction, but only with the divine and everything that is and lives. Namely, it becomes one with the spark, with the ray, with the prototype and face. This is not a blind passion, but a seeing one. And its moments are not random, not indiscriminate, and not helpless. It enters into unity and identification only with living goodness. But this unity is unconditional for life and for death. It does not unite with the principle of evil, but departs from it and opposes itself to it. And this opposition is also unconditional for life and for death. The principle of the spirit is the principle of objective choice and decision, that of religious devotion. And this power of religious devotion which has chosen God and clung to him, Spiritual love brings into every relationship to God, to the church, to the homeland, to the Tsar, to one's people, to their material and personal altars, to one's family and to one's neighbor.

[Dr. Johnson]

Yeah, I think that paragraph. It's very difficult to interpret because I just. There's so many ideas in my head. They're all fighting to get out. I would say this paragraph may be somewhat of a summary of his. Of his political theory, of his connection to Hegel as well. Because the minute you talk about spirit, you have to talk about freedom. Spirit is free it's not subject to the cause and effect. As you know, the trees and corn stalks that are next to me are. So a materialist has to deny freedom entirely. It's very uncomfortable. But they have no choice. Again, if they believe in the spirit and reject the concept of God, then you say, well, what created the spirit? Where did this come from? And you see this in the development of the nation. No one goes to the front lines and dies for, you know, the right to have a jury trial or, you know, something procedural or something like that. No one's going to die for the right to assemble. No, they're going to die for hearth and home. And that's what they picture their hearth, their home, their nation. The Iranians have been doing. That's their. It's their homeland. It's come under attack. Of course they're going to win, and they've won handily, as I predicted. And so again. And then the individual kind of falls away. Not that the individual doesn't exist, but there's a big difference between the individual ego and a person. And I. I capitalize the P in person, just like he capitalizes the S himself. You know, civic nationalism has this notion that it is kind of random. You throw people into one group, you draw a boundary, and that becomes a. A nation state. That's exactly how the Soviets did it with some. With collectivization. They destroyed an actual functional communal system you would think they would support and put in its place a collective of random people thrown together with no moral code whatsoever, no tradition, no, you know, brought them all together, sometimes from different parts of the empire, and expected that to work just as well. Now that, you know, the commune. That's what people die for. You know, people die for protecting your homeland, not the idea of a state. Big difference.

[Podcast Host]

Such love restructures the soul's entire worldview and its entire attitude towards worldly values. All its facets appear new and different, and everything is determined by divinity and God's sanctifying presence. Thus, the ordinary, religiously blind views hold that the useful is superior to the sacred, the man is superior to his surroundings, and that many people are superior to one. It is convinced that all people are equal, that every person has the right to life, and that the final word always belongs to humanity. It believes that hunger and suffering are the most terrible things and that life on earth is all the better for it. The more contented and happy people there are. It has no doubt that health is better than illness, that power is better than subjugation, that wealth is better than poverty and that life is always better than death.

[Dr. Johnson]

I'm sorry about that. I know I kind of put a fragment in there. This was a very, very difficult. Paragraph or actually section to translate. Google Translate was of zero help, you know, because we're not using words in the sense that we normally use them. You know, I got into this field. My first. My first issue was abortion when I was 16. When I found out what it really was. That's what brought me into, you know, conservatism and then eventually, you know, national socialism. You know, you know, people like Hitler were rewarding families for having more of them. It's shocking to see that many, they're always white couples. Women are not having children. And I think this is wonderful. It's being promoted as a lifestyle in the Hispanic world, of course, is not the case. But we're also talking about here, you know, the basic utilitarian calculus. You could come to the right wing from many different angles. You know, you can see the state, the civic nationalist mentality has to be looked out for. The idea that the state is the creator of the nation rather than the other way around, that's extremely important. And it's something I'm. You know, Mussolini was very honest and he was a journalist for so long, and that was the center of his. What is fascism? And he says it over and over and over and over again. You know, the right to life is, you know, not just obviously the right to exist. It's right to live and be able to thrive. But we all know that people are not equal. In other words, they're not all the same. And humanity is one of these words like love that gets thrown around. It doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot. Life is better than death. I like it. I like how he mentions that. In other words, there's nothing worth dying for. If you're a fan of House Maryland, he says that. He says that you always pick life. Life is the. You know, no matter what you have, how sick you are, life is always better than death. No, it's not a support for suicide at all. We do have a concept of martyrdom. In many cases, we are going to go to work, but who knows what might happen in our own society. So it's extremely important to keep this, this distinction in mind. It's very. Talk about nuance. This is as nuanced as it gets.

[Podcast Host]

Spiritual love sees and evaluates all this quite differently. For it, the sacred is always higher than the useful. Earthly harm is not absolutely terrifying. And our benefit is unattractive. It knows things that are higher than man. And at one great moment in human history, the rope of this love banished the vulgarity of commerce from the material temple. In its eyes, a multitude of people as such can neither equal nor replace the true worth of one person. So that one man is worth 10,000 if he be the best.

[Dr. Johnson]

Yeah, it's, it's. You know, there's a problem with utilitarianism. If everyone is equal, then a thousand people is better than. Than one. But that's not necessarily the case. The truth is, we know that for a fact. You read the Old Testament for two seconds and you see that, you know, Moses was commanded to destroy entire civilizations. It's very, you know. Now he hasn't commanded anyone else to do that, thank God. But you know, suffering isn't a terrible thing. Suffering is something that could bring you to a new stage in life. We talked about this many times. The stuff on Hegel too, we talked about. It's the cult of comfort. And essentially what he's talking about here is mass society based on nothing except the fact that they exist. And utilitarianism, because it rejects the concept of any sense of right, also rejects the very concept of the nation too.

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[Podcast Host]

Spiritual love knows that people are not equal and that they differ from one another as one star differs from another. 1 Corinthians 12 and 1 Corinthians 15. This love also knows that every person must earn and justify his right to life. That there are people for whom it is better not to be born, and there are others for whom it is better to be killed than to commit evil. Matthew 18, Mark 10, Luke 17. Spiritual love, possessing the source of true God, loving philanthropy, knows the price and temptations of sentimental humanism and is not deceived by understands the religious meaning of suffering and the spiritually purifying power of abstinence, and always foresees something far more terrible than suffering and hunger. It does not measure the perfection of human life by the contentment of individuals or the happiness of the mass. It knows all the spiritual dangers associated with the presence of earthly pleasures and the full spiritual significance of their loss. Its visions long ago revealed to it why illness can be better than health, submission better than power, poverty better than wealth. And it was precisely that power of this vision that strengthened this conviction that a valiant death is always better than a shameful life, and that each person defines themselves before God precisely by the moment that makes them prefer death. Thus the principle of the spirit, by indicating to love its true object, changes its fundamental direction in all its content, previous names and all its content. Previous names and guises now imply new different objects and states. And these demand a new attitude from the soul. They demand it and receive it. And as a result, the act of love itself is inevitably reborn in its fundamental mental and spiritual structure. It acquires new boundaries, new forms and manifestations.

[Dr. Johnson]

Prior to Christianity coming into the world, you still see it in pagan societies like the isolated tribes of Latin America, you know, killing off babies that they thought were sick or that would be sick, that appear to them to be sick. That was a norm. Christianity completely rejected that idea on a whole lot of bases.

[Podcast Host]

I mean, you don't have to, you don't have to go further for pagan society than India, huh? No one wants to live there, not even Indians. Look, here's here, here's the issue, okay? When you have a pagan society, what a pagan society presupposes is gods. And what do we know historically about the lore of the gods? They are always warring against each other. How can you have an orderly society if your gods are warring against each other? That presupposes that you will be warring against each other. Only a monotheistic society can have or can even demand order, because there's one that you point to, not the many.

[Dr. Johnson]

If you haven't seen Apocalypto yet, please, please, please, please go see it. The not. You know, it's. I, I think it's for free on YouTube. I could be wrong about that.

[Podcast Host]

I, I believe it is free on YouTube.

[Dr. Johnson]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, it's worth it. And the wonderful thing about that movie is that 0 is in English and you know exactly what they're talking about. And it's, that's, it's, it's almost an exciting aspect to. Shows you how communication is mostly non verbal.

[Podcast Host]

It's not free. I apologize for interrupting, but it's not free on YouTube. But there are other places where you can find it if you don't want to pay for it.

[Dr. Johnson]

Yeah, but I wouldn't mind Supporting him whenever you could. But a lot of that, what we're talking about here, is manifest exactly in that movie. What was the apocalypse for them? They were being judged by the coming of Christianity. And soon their own destruction didn't take much to push that whole civilization over where the Spanish had plenty of allies. And you certainly can't blame Europeans for outbreaks of illnesses that the locals didn't have. That certainly is no fault of theirs. But, you know, the point I was making before was that, you know, in banning infanticide, in banning usury, or trying to. Anyway, it was revolutionary. It was absolutely revolutionary. And that's why a monarchy was. Still is required. And, you know, they're always going to be imperfect, they're always going to be sinful, just like me and you are. So, you know, I think, I think this chapter was absolutely almost essential to the book. You have to read this chapter before you understand this chapter is the center of it. I think illness can be better than hell.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Dr. Johnson]

Submission, better than power. Poverty, better than wealth. You know, wealth corrupts. We know that.

[Podcast Host]

And anything to. And thinking anything of the opposite. If you, if you're like, yeah, I'm sorry, I just can't. I can't get down with what he's saying here. I have to go in the opposite direction. You're basically a Talmudist. You've adopted everything that the Jews have been teaching as opposed to Christianity for 1400 years now. 1500 years. You're basically a Talmudist. If you're in the opposite direction. I mean, if you're for. If you think the only way to defeat your enemies is to absolutely just, just destroy whole populations. You're a Jew. I mean, you, we just, we've, we're watching this in real time. You know, you're, you've basically reduced yourself

[Dr. Johnson]

to what they are, and terrorism has become the norm. What the US does in foreign policy, for example, military policy in Ukraine, destroying. Using precision weaponry to destroy civilian centers, whether it be schools or decentralization plants, whatever it might be. This is now normal and the regime says nothing about it. Neocons love it. And it didn't take very long for that to happen. I noticed it in the Ukraine war. That's not true. I noticed it in the war in Chechnya because they were using poison gas and no one said anything. It was pretty, it was totally blatant. That faction financed by the West. God, there's been no jihad that has been financed by Western powers in a very, very long time. But I agree with you completely here

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I mean, you just can't. You, you have to get out of the mindset that the only way to defeat your enemy is to become them. Because the reason they're your enemy is because they're not like you. Why are you going to become them? I mean, because they're antithetical to everything that you are. I mean, I just, I don't get it.

[Dr. Johnson]

In the Old Testament. In the Old Testament, Moses was giving a given specific instructions, right? It wasn't, you know, this wasn't a policy that they adopt. He was given specific instructions that can't be taken out of that context. So you can't use that. Yes, Moses was given that, that command. There was something wrong with these people physically. But in no way does that mean that Christian society should do the same.

[Podcast Host]

Alrighty. That was an intense one. I'm glad that we knocked out that chapter. I'm glad we knocked out that chapter in one sitting because it deserved its own standalone episode.

[Dr. Johnson]

Oh, I need a nap. I'm telling you, this is very, very. I do this every day of my life. This is normal for me, you know, and I love that I have the opportunity with you, you and your listeners. I could talk about this, you know, and have it actually matter. I truly appreciate it and I appreciate you very much.

[Podcast Host]

I appreciate you too, Dr. Johnson. And please go over and donate to Dr. Johnson's work. Go to the show notes and go to the descriptions and the videos and throw him some money and show them. Show him some love, please.

[Dr. Johnson]

Please do.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that's it. We'll be back. Yep. We'll be back for another episode in a couple days. Thank you, Dr. Johnson.

[Dr. Johnson]

You're welcome, my friend. Sa.

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