The Peter McCormack Show: Episode 110

Guest: Whitney Webb

Date: September 4, 2025

Theme: Epstein, Intelligence, and the Global Network of Power

Episode Overview

In this compelling episode, Peter McCormack interviews investigative journalist and author Whitney Webb about the true nature of Jeffrey Epstein’s network, its connections with intelligence agencies, arms trafficking, financial crimes, sex trafficking, and deeper global power structures. Webb unpacks her findings from years of research, as chronicled in her books, delving into how organized crime and intelligence fused into a near-untouchable “meta cartel” running global affairs—far beyond the sex scandal headlines.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Epstein Files: Missing Answers and Superficial Exposés

• Webb criticizes the lack of substantive new information following recent “Epstein Files” disclosures, arguing both political parties intentionally keep investigations shallow to avoid internecine fallout.
• The “limited hangout” strategy: Politicians and media release enough information to appear transparent, but withhold the deeper truths about Epstein’s role in global criminality.
  • “Neither party wants things to go too deep. The benefit…is only there if it’s kept superficial.” (A, 04:09)

2. Deaths Connected to the Network

• Notable deaths (Jean Luc Brunel, Mark Middleton, Ron Brown) with suspicious circumstances are identified as central to a decades-long pattern of people close to elite political or intelligence figures dying under odd or unexplained conditions.
  • On Middleton’s death: “Police say that he hung himself with an extension cord and also shot himself in the chest...Later came back and said there was a weapon 30ft from his body. The judge sealed all evidence from ever being made public to stop the spread of harmful conspiracy theories.” (A, 07:03)

3. The Nexus: Government, Organized Crime, and Intelligence

• Webb draws a direct line from WWII’s Operation Underworld (when US intelligence formally teamed up with organized crime) to the modern power structure, arguing these connections have persisted and even deepened post-war.
  • “Ultimately, what happened then is that a lot of these rackets that were previously of organized crime…became rackets of intelligence services.” (A, 12:54)
• The CIA, born from Wall Street, allegedly acts to protect multinational corporate interests under the justification of “national security,” often blurring the lines between crime and state action.
  • “Protecting U.S. interests…is not the American people, but massive American-based multinational corporations.” (A, 14:34)

4. Sex Trafficking as an Intelligence Tool & Beyond

• Sex trafficking and sexual blackmail, exemplified by Epstein’s operations, are described as longstanding tactics of both organized crime and intelligence agencies.
• Epstein is positioned not as an anomaly, but one in a lineage of figures (Adnan Khashoggi, Roy Cohn, Robert Keith Gray) using sexual blackmail for leverage at the highest levels.
  • “This is a holdover from the mob later absorbed by intelligence agencies because of its utility.” (A, 48:31)
  • On Dennis Hastert: “How did a guy like Dennis Hastert become Speaker of the House…when it was known he was a pedophile?...Because they can hold it over his head the whole time.” (A, 47:12)

5. Money Laundering, Financial Crime, and the Role of Banks

• The crumbling of banks like BCCI led to criminal portfolios being “inherited” by other major banks (Edmond Safra, HSBC), continuing illicit finance operations.
  • “It’s a cartel... operates with impunity... when one institution crumbles, another pops up in its place.” (A, 25:06)

6. Modelling Industry: Recruitment and Exploitation

• The modeling industry (notably MC2, Elite Model Management) is highlighted as a front for trafficking, providing a pipeline of vulnerable young women to influential elites.
• Brunel and associates used modeling agencies to lure young women from around the world, detain passports, and enforce compliance.
  • “Under the guise of modeling contracts...they were, you know, very controllable under those circumstances.” (A, 07:36)

7. Transnational Corporate Power: Eclipsing the State

• Early-1970s testimony from Samuel Pisar (Maxwell confidant) is cited, warning that joint ventures between US and Communist-bloc companies were creating “a new economic system of governance,” making nation states “irrelevant”—a prophecy Webb sees as fulfilled by today’s power structures.
  • “He testified...about the rise of the trans ideological corporation...this was creating a new economic system of governance that was making the nation state irrelevant.” (A, 18:18)

8. The “Yacht” Analogy (How the Elite Club Enforces Omertà)

• Journalist Nick Bryant’s analogy: Once you’re onboard the “yacht” (elite circles), you can do as you like; trying to leave or expose the system likely gets you destroyed. The club polices itself by a code of silence backed up by both incentives and threats.
  • “As long as you’re in the club...you can act with impunity, but there are things you can’t do.” (A, 32:46)

9. Epstein’s Origin Story: From Dalton to Mossad

• The mysterious period where Epstein, a college dropout, shifts from teaching at Dalton School (hired by William Barr’s father, Donald) to fast-tracking into finance and intelligence-laden circles via Bear Stearns, Khashoggi, Maxwell, and modeling networks—all through a pattern of “baton passing” between generations.
  • “He joins Bear Stearns in 76...by 1980 he’s a limited partner...a meteoric rise.” (A, 60:06)

10. International Power Conglomerates

• Webb ties names like Robert Maxwell, Mossad, organized crime, and major figures from US and UK politics into a single, resilient network.
• Epstein’s maneuvering between US, Israeli, and Saudi intelligence, with possible management of Saudi wealth and involvement in Vision 2030, indicate operations spanning from intelligence to statecraft.
  • “I think Epstein was likely involved with the rise of the current crown prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed bin Salman.” (A, 125:45)

Notable Quotes & Powerful Moments

• On Keeping the Truth Hidden:
  • “If we know everything, it opens up everything. It's Pandora's box.”
    — Peter McCormack (00:10, 24:40)
• On Elite Impunity:
  • “We’re ruled by a meta cartel...they have no accountability for all their crimes, even when exposed.”
    — Whitney Webb (A, 25:06)
• On Intelligence, Crime, and the State:
  • “The mob runs the world...are you just going to let them keep running it because it bums you out?”
    — Whitney Webb (A, 158:08)
• On Systemic Child Trafficking:
  • “In the CIA…agency policy to give [a source] anything they ask for in order to secure access…even if it's kids. It's fucking wild.”
    — Whitney Webb (A, 35:11)
• On the News Cycle and Memory-Holing:
  • “A decade ago, it would have been a huge multi month long story. Now it’s just a blip.”
    — Whitney Webb (A, 22:39)

Segment Timestamps of Importance

| Timestamp | Topic / Quote | |-------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:10–02:25 | Opening: Why true Epstein files are withheld | | 04:09–05:03 | The benefit of keeping Epstein “superficial” for both US parties | | 07:03–09:54 | Suspicious deaths: Mark Middleton, Jean Luc Brunel | | 12:02–15:19 | Operation Underworld: The intelligence-organized crime alliance | | 21:40–22:09 | Keeping focus on sex trafficking to avoid deeper exposure | | 25:06–27:32 | The “meta cartel” — banks, organized crime, cover-ups | | 32:46–33:41 | Nick Bryant’s “yacht” club analogy: omertà among the elites | | 43:58–46:08 | Precrime, Palantir, and the absorption of surveillance capitalism | | 47:12–49:19 | Political elevation of compromised people: Speaker Hastert as example | | 56:42–60:06 | Epstein’s shift from Dalton to finance and intelligence: origins explored | | 79:54–83:35 | Italian P2, Berlusconi, intertwined with intelligence, mafia, and sex scandals | | 108:39–109:09 | Timeline: When did the sexual abuse begin? Epstein/Ghislaine partnership | | 125:44–132:47 | Webb’s “theory” on why Epstein was ultimately taken down (Saudi, global power) | | 136:35–138:42 | Trump world “first friends” who may be exposed if files ever released | | 144:55–146:49 | Social engineering, big tech, and the new age of perception management | | 155:40–157:30 | The biggest unanswered question: What did Mark Middleton know? | | 158:08–159:47 | Final call: Organize locally, disengage from the system, build something better |

Concluding Takeaways

• Webb’s Core Argument: The Epstein scandal isn’t exceptional but typical—an inevitable outgrowth of a criminal, transnational network that fused mafia interests, state intelligence, finance, and business, now operating with global impunity.
• The Fight to Expose: The system is designed for perception management and distraction, ensuring cover for elites while ordinary people face stricter justice daily.
• Real Change: Webb advocates for economic and community-level independence: “If you don’t want to be someone’s slave, you have to stop using the slavery money.” (A, 155:27)
• On Solutions: Meaningful action must be grassroots, with disengagement from the systems controlled by predatory elites.

Recommended Further Reading

• Whitney Webb’s Books:
  • One Nation Under Blackmail (Volumes 1 & 2)—Critical for an in-depth look at how this network was built and how Epstein fits into it.
  • (See [archive.org] for free access, but Whitney encourages purchase to support independent research.)

Closing Thoughts

Whitney Webb’s explosive research contends that the real scandal is not just Epstein, but the global elite system he exemplified—a meta cartel of crime, intelligence, and capital, for whom Epstein was both tool and microcosm. The episode poses haunting questions, advocates for ongoing vigilance, and warns that true transparency is a threat to the very architecture of global power.

“It sucks to find out the mob runs the world, but the question is...are you just going to let them keep running it because it bums you out? Or do you want to say, screw you guys, we’re going to build something else and get off your, you know, slave plantation?”
— Whitney Webb (A, 158:08)