Podcast Summary

The Peter McCormack Show
Episode #122: William Clouston – Beyond the Doom Loop: A New Politics for Britain
Date: October 23, 2025
Host: Peter McCormack
Guest: William Clouston, leader of the Social Democratic Party (SDP)

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode features William Clouston discussing the UK’s political, economic, and cultural malaise and offering his vision for "a new politics" as leader of the SDP. The conversation examines why Britain is in a so-called "doom loop"—wherein national decline is normalized—touching on energy policy, deindustrialization, spiraling public sector inefficiency, social trust, and the possibility of political realignment. Throughout, both Peter and William critique the ruling elite’s failure of leadership and advocate for a return to foundational, practical policies.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The State of the Nation: Decline & the “Doom Loop”

• Sacrifice of Prosperity for Righteousness:
  William argues the ruling elite has “sacrificed our prosperity for their own self-righteousness”, prioritizing moral posturing over material wellbeing.
  “They sacrificed our future, particularly young people, to be self righteous. And you see that in lots of domains. It’s not just energy. ... But they’re more interested in doing that than in the material reality of actually supplying power.” (00:00 & 15:11)
• Anecdotal Evidence of Malaise:
  Peter shares stories of business closures, lack of investment, and social decline, such as the failure of local councils and decay in his own town.
  “Today another friend of me has told me they’re closing their business down next year.” (05:31)

2. Economic & Energy Policy Failures

• UK Energy Policy Catastrophe:
  William details how the UK’s industrial energy prices are the highest in the world, crippling domestic industry.
  “We have the highest industrial energy prices in the world. ... Four or five times higher than the U.S.” (08:10)
• Privatization and Loss of Planning:
  Both speakers critique the move to privatize natural monopolies (energy, water), arguing public ownership and planning yielded better outcomes.
  “You can’t and you shouldn’t privatize natural monopolies. ... It was better when it was.” (09:09)
• Net Zero & Policy Pretending:
  Clouston derides the UK approach to renewables and net zero as “pretending it works” while the grid still requires reliable backup from fossil fuels or nuclear.
  “Renewables are not very sensible. Wind power and solar power isn't sensible because it’s not reliable. ... Net zero is just—it's a form of pretense.” (12:03)

3. Bureaucracy, Regulation, and Public Sector Inefficiency

• Government-Driven Inefficiency:
  The conversation exposes bizarre bureaucratic requirements, such as diversity quotas in nuclear reactor contracts:
  “To win it, you must have 50, 50 male and females in the workforce ... and you have to open up employment opportunities for minorities, including asylum seekers. I’m not joking.” (17:16)
• Grift and Bad Incentives:
  Peter laments rampant inefficiency: agencies exploiting NHS staffing, councils fostering expensive emergency housing at public expense, and local government outsourcing.
  “So what happens is agencies are created, they incentivise nurses to come and work for them, and the hospitals are employing them through the agencies and paying them more.” (19:38)

4. Social Trust, Public Realm Decline & Cultural Crisis

• Collapse of Social Trust:
  Both note the breakdown of trust in institutions, illustrated by disorder in town centers, visible drug problems, and public realm neglect.
  “No one. There’s this sense, I can’t really put my finger on it, but there’s like a misery across the country.” (49:48 & 50:11)
• Public Good Contamination:
  William argues inaction toward antisocial behavior punishes everyone:
  “If it goes wrong, everyone suffers. That’s what’s happened in your block. Everyone else is suffering because of a few people and lack of assertion from the authorities.” (56:41)

5. Political Realignment, Leadership, and the Future

• Lack of Political Champions:
  Peter and William enumerate the failings of all major parties and predict further crisis under Labour without fundamental changes.
  “It can be done ... The Swedes did it 25 years ago ... But you know what you have to do? You have to raise tax, but you have to cut at the same time. ... If everyone suffers and everyone does the correction, then you can fix it.” (33:49)
• Political Homelessness & Realignment:
  They discuss the appetite for “sensible” politics among both left and right voters, and the possibility of new coalitions or parties (SDP, Reform, etc.) filling the void.
  “There is a sort of fusion ... what unites us? National citizen preference and the nation state. ... it is a mixture of red and blue.” (69:01)
• Conviction Politicians:
  Repeated references to the need for politicians who are independently wealthy or brave enough to ignore party whips and special interests.
  “He has the one ingredient that is a precondition of bravery. He’s not a coward. No, he has bravery and he’s prepared to say.” (75:16)

6. Optimism—But Only After Hitting Bottom

• Change Must Be Forced:
  Clouston is cautiously optimistic, believing a turnaround will require reaching a crisis point where “the right people with real conviction” can seize the moment.
  “The moment you get to the inflection point, you get to the bottom and it turns round, you’ve got to show that it can turn around.” (86:50)
• Practical Vision:
  The SDP’s platform focuses on energy abundance, reindustrialization, investment, and restoring direct provision of services.
  “I want a new fleet of British nuclear power stations ... flood the grid with cheap power and reindustrialize and re-energize your economy.” (36:06)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the British Elite:
  “Our elites have sacrificed our prosperity for their own self-righteousness.” — William Clouston (00:00, 15:11)
• On UK Privatization:
  “Selling off the family silver ... was a failure. ... You can’t and you shouldn’t privatize natural monopolies.” — William Clouston (09:09)
• On Political Courage:
  “If you don’t have that [independence], you won’t be able to correct anything. ... If you’re fettered to other things, there’s no chance.” — William Clouston (77:45)
• On a Nation’s Mood:
  “There’s like a misery across the country.” — Peter McCormack (50:11)
• On the UK’s Economic Prospects:
  “We have the highest industrial energy prices in the world. ... Four or five times higher than the U.S.” — William Clouston (08:10)
• On Social Trust:
  “I think trust in the institutions to be capable is at the heart of it.” — William Clouston (50:13)
• On Conviction Politics:
  “Conviction, you know ... you elect people that really believe in something and you might get somewhere.” — William Clouston (70:30)
• On the Path Forward:
  “Join us. Don’t just get off the fence and join us if you believe in what we’re saying. ... The country itself ... is headed for some turbulence.” — William Clouston (91:23)

Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic/Quote | |-----------|-------------| | 00:00 | William on the self-righteousness of elites (main opening) | | 07:49 | The crisis in UK energy, postwar planning vs. privatization | | 09:45 | Arguments for public ownership of natural monopolies | | 12:03 | Net zero as “pretending” to deliver results; grid reliability | | 17:16 | Absurd bureaucratic hiring requirements for nuclear contracts | | 19:38 | NHS agency inefficiencies, broader public sector grift | | 26:47 | Question: has anything improved in the last 20 years? | | 36:06 | The case for a massive nuclear investment (energy policy) | | 49:48 | The mood of decline vs. US optimism | | 56:41 | Case study: decay in Bedford's “The Heights” flats | | 69:01 | Realignment: “fusion” of left and right under patriotism | | 78:11 | William negotiating general election pact with Reform | | 91:23 | William’s pitch for the SDP, prediction for Britain’s future |

Tone & Atmosphere

The conversation is earnest and deeply concerned, but laced with pockets of humor and personal anecdotes. Both speakers are candidly pessimistic about Britain’s short-term trajectory but agree that fundamental, practical change is both necessary and, ultimately, possible—if enough people demand it and the right leadership emerges.

Conclusion

William Clouston offers clear-eyed criticism of the British status quo while laying out a vision focused on decency, national interest, and practical investment. With neither the left nor the right delivering for ordinary citizens, both he and Peter see an opening for new politics driven by competence, honesty, and genuine public service.

For those seeking substantive, skeptical, and constructive criticism of where the UK is—and hope for how it could be better—this discussion is essential listening.

Find out more about the SDP and their policies at:
stp.org.uk
(See especially their energy abundance green paper as referenced at 93:44.)