The Peter McCormack Show: Episode #131
Guest: Angela McArdle
Date: November 25, 2025
Title: The Fight for Freedom in a Post-Rational World
Main Theme & Purpose
In this episode, Peter McCormack sits down with Angela McArdle, former chair of the US Libertarian Party, to discuss the state of liberty and rational discourse in Western societies. The conversation spans politics, economics, immigration, the future of libertarianism, civil liberties, financial freedom (especially through Bitcoin), and the cultural divide between “freedom” and “free stuff.” Both critique the current trajectory of the US and UK, the fracturing of the political right, and the erosion of Enlightenment values in what McArdle calls a "post-rational world." Notably, they unpack issues around power, the role of third parties, specific cases of government crackdowns on privacy and Bitcoin, and strategies for pushing liberty forward in society.
Episode Breakdown
1. Collapse of Rational Discourse & Political Polarization
Timestamp: 00:00–03:36
- Angela: Describes a shift away from rational debate towards emotion-driven, reactionary politics, characterizing the era as “post-rational.”
- "I feel like we're approaching the end of... a rational era. I feel like we're having a hard swing against Enlightenment." (Angela, 00:00)
- Observes extremes on both left (class warfare, identity politics) and right (fascist tendencies).
Notable Quote:
"Some people on the right are just going full Nazi... and people on the left are just going full communist." (Angela, 00:16)
2. Economic Decline, Taxation, and Immigration
Timestamp: 01:40–06:18
- Peter bemoans UK’s exodus of wealthy individuals, rising taxes, and economic mismanagement.
- Discussion of the UK and US as increasingly hostile to entrepreneurs and the wealthy; immigration policy seen as “importing voters” rather than skilled labor.
- Political realignment in the UK and speculation about emergent party dynamics.
Notable Quote:
"We're scaring [the rich] off. We're not bringing in enough engineers and doctors." (Peter, 04:53) "You're becoming a third world country." (Angela, 02:41)
3. Left vs. Right: Identity, Class, and Irrationalities
Timestamp: 06:23–09:44
- Analysis of how left-leaning and right-leaning parties are untethered from economic realities—especially monetary policy.
- Greens and other progressive factions accused of pushing contradictory or irrational positions.
- Peter: Demands for more taxes are depopulating the nation of entrepreneurs.
Notable Quote:
“Can a woman have a penis? ...if you answer yes... you shouldn't be taken seriously.” (Peter, 07:15)
4. Libertarianism’s Struggles, Deals with Trump, and Pragmatic Coalitions
Timestamp: 09:44–19:09
- Angela introduces herself, recounting her controversial outreach and political deal with Donald Trump in 2023 to broker real libertarian influence.
- Emphasis on results over ideological purity; details the practical challenges of moving the Libertarian Party and building cross-ideological coalitions.
- Describes efforts to secure the release of Ross Ulbricht as a touchstone issue.
Notable Quote:
“We’re all incredibly economically literate, but... how do we get from point A to point B? People just lose their minds.” (Angela, 16:17)
Key Moment:
- 11:39: The deal with Trump and the libertarian vote.
5. Navigating the Two-Party System: Tactics for Minor Parties
Timestamp: 21:28–23:16
- Angela’s strategy: use the small but vital libertarian voting bloc for leverage, not for direct victory.
- She recounts extracting real concessions by threatening to swing the election.
6. Civil Liberties, Institutional Corruption, and the Power Paradox
Timestamp: 24:33–27:54
- Peter raises concerns about the intransigence and slow change in US government bureaucracy.
- Angela discusses the practical need for discipline and persistence, and the risks of being “captured by the machine.”
Notable Quote:
“There's a risk... For me, I just stay a registered Libertarian and I don't shift that Overton window.” (Angela, 26:33)
7. Fracturing of the Right & Cultural Touchstones
Timestamp: 28:01–31:46
- The death of Charlie Kirk and fallout among American conservatives is discussed as emblematic of right-wing disarray.
- Young generations’ increasing demands for government “entitlements,” both in US (Gen Z) and UK.
Notable Quote:
“It’s really simple stuff, like men can’t become women. Abortion is wrong... Welfare traps you in poverty.” (Angela + Peter, ~29:00)
8. The Decline of Major Cities & Broad Societal Decay
Timestamp: 32:00–34:32
- Observations about the urban decay in New York and the outmigration of productive citizens.
- Macroeconomic concerns tied to failures in public administration and loss of community cohesion.
9. Pathways to Shrinking Government: Budget Wars and Health Care Debates
Timestamp: 34:32–42:42
- Angela details backroom progress in cutting US government expenditures (especially USAID and Medicaid) under current (pro-Trump) management.
- Debate over universal health care: Angela is resolutely against it at the federal level, favoring localized or private, crowdfunded models.
- Peter and Angela highlight regulatory capture and inefficiency in both US and UK health systems.
Notable Quote:
“It's not free. Taxpayers are paying for it... It's possible to shrink government. It's just really hard work.” (Angela, 36:15)
10. Financial Freedom, Bitcoin, and the War on Crypto
Timestamp: 45:32–54:40
- Peter positions Bitcoin as a rational hedge against endless money printing and governmental overreach; Angela concurs and expands.
- Discussion of lab-created gold undermining traditional gold-bug arguments.
- Trump administration’s pro-Bitcoin promises, but slow implementation due to bureaucratic inertia and the leftover “Operation Choke Point 2.0” crackdown.
Notable Quotes:
“With all due respect to gold bugs... I think you should consider bitcoin because we don’t have a lot of good options left.” (Angela, 47:22) “Biden treated cryptocurrency like it was terrorism.” (Angela, 51:19)
11. Civil Liberties Under Siege: “Bitcoin Hostages” & Weaponized Departments
Timestamp: 54:40–70:19
- Analysis of the ongoing legal persecution of Bitcoiners/crypto innovators (e.g., Ian Freeman, Roman Storm).
- Highlighting the contradiction between American foundational ideals and current prosecutions, especially the creation of a chilling effect.
- Weaponization of the justice system, especially under COVID, and the erosion of free speech and privacy.
Notable Quotes:
"Writing code... is free speech. It is a First Amendment issue." (Angela, 70:08) “There are a lot of people in the United States who don't want us to have civil liberties.” (Angela, 69:28)
Key Case Studies:
- Ian Freeman: Jailed for 8 years over “unlicensed bitcoin ATMs” and “money laundering” — seen as regulatory overreach, meant to chill liberty activism.
- Roman Storm (Tornado Cash): Prosecuted as an ‘unlicensed money transmitter’ for open source code, despite not being custodial or handling funds.
12. Government's Nature and the Decline of American Backbone
Timestamp: 71:26–77:44
- Is government inherently self-preserving and power-accumulating?
- Dialogue on how far the US has drifted from its revolutionary roots and how modern Americans—by and large—lack the courage or backbone to push back against state overreach, notably during COVID.
Notable Quote:
"It's like a self-licking ice cream cone. It exists now to keep itself in existence... to feed itself and to grow just like any other organism." (Angela, 73:22)
13. Free Stuff vs. Freedom: The Core Battle
Timestamp: 78:04–80:11
- Peter and Angela reduce modern politics to a “cold war” between the desire for free government services vs. the defense of personal liberty and property.
- Both agree this is the “internal cold war” at the heart of Western societies.
Notable Quote:
“Freedom versus free stuff.” (Angela, 78:13)
14. The Battle for Liberty: Alignment, Divides, and the Future
Timestamp: 80:11–86:30
- Discussion of the uneasy alliance (and tensions) between conservatives and libertarians—once more aligned with the Democrats in the US, now finding greater common cause with the right, especially over issues like guns.
- The US-UK divide on gun rights is explored, with cultural and legal incommensurability made clear by anecdotes.
15. Strategy for Liberty: Third Parties as Kingmakers
Timestamp: 96:44–97:57
- Angela lays out her repeatable playbook for libertarian (or third-party) impact: build a steady 1.5%-3.5% voting bloc, negotiate policy concessions with major party frontrunners, and endorse in exchange for real, pragmatic gains.
Notable Quote:
“You don't need to grow it big enough to win elections. You have to become a voting bloc that people must cater to. ...You exact concessions... then you drop out and endorse.” (Angela, 95:52)
Memorable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps
- "We live in two different realities... it's not rational." (Angela, 00:00)
- "You're becoming a third world country." (Angela, 02:41)
- "Can a woman have a penis? ...if you answer yes... you shouldn't be taken seriously." (Peter, 07:15)
- “We’re all incredibly economically literate, but... how do we get from point A to point B? People just lose their minds.” (Angela, 16:17)
- “We just need to keep making progress. …if we don't make perfect progress… we have to just make progress anywhere and everywhere we can.” (Angela, 88:15)
Conclusion: Angela’s Call to Action
- Angela openly recruits listeners to join the Mises Caucus and participate in building a coalition to extract liberty-oriented wins from the political process, using principled leverage and negotiation rather than quixotic electoral campaigns.
- She advocates for practical, persistent activism rooted in principle but aware of political reality.
Final Thoughts
This episode is a sweeping, candid dialogue about the fight for individual liberty in an era increasingly hostile to rational discourse and personal autonomy. Both Peter and Angela express concern over cultural and institutional malaise in the UK and US but also offer strategic hope: that steadfast, strategic advocacy for liberty—rooted in Bitcoin, coalition politics, and cultural renewal—still has the potential to shape the future.