Podcast Summary: The Peter McCormack Show – #142 – Andrew Gold – The Incentives Driving Radicalisation on Both Sides

Date: January 28, 2026
Host: Peter McCormack (“Pete”)
Guest: Andrew Gold

Episode Overview

This episode explores the rising radicalisation on both the political left and right in Britain, the incentives that stoke these extremes, and the societal impacts of culture wars, immigration, economics, and the influence of digital algorithms. Andrew Gold, a journalist and podcaster known for examining cults and radical groups, joins Peter McCormack to dissect why society feels so divided, how media economics push creators into ideological corners, and whether the issues of culture and economics can be resolved. The conversation weaves together Andrew’s experience with cults, their joint perspective as content creators, and sober, often candid reflections on Britain’s shifting society.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Radicalisation and the Loss of Social Trust

• Opening Reflection on UK Society
  • Andrew opens with a bleak assessment:

    "What I see when I open my door was a world I don't recognize anymore that doesn't recognize me. ... We used to have a higher trust society ... it's gone. And I'm not sure we can ever really get that back." (00:00, Andrew)

• Judging People by Ethnicity
  • Andrew cautions against ethnic judgments, warning that this path leads to societal breakdown:

    "I warn against this judgment of people based on ethnicity … that's not a smart way to handle this without breaking into war." (00:00, Andrew)

2. Algorithmic Incentives & Content Creation Bubbles

• Content Creator Dilemma
  • Both discuss how algorithms foster audience bubbles, nudging creators toward more extreme or repetitive content for views and revenue.
  • Andrew describes how his YouTube channel became pigeonholed into covering only Scientology because those videos performed best:

    “I became the Internet’s expert on Scientology … I stopped doing it at its peak … started again with Heretics two years ago.” (03:56, Andrew)

• Algorithm vs. Human Nature
  • Andrew reframes the conversation, saying:

    “When we talk about the algorithm, I think what we're really talking about is human nature … Human nature sort of pushes us into these bubbles …” (06:12, Andrew)

3. Purity Spirals, Cancel Culture, and Political Fractures

• Online Tribalism
  • Both note how any deviation from purist group lines gets met with hostility—whether from “woke” left or “fringe right” commentators.
  • Andrew gives the example of Meghan Markle conspiracies and the vitriol surrounding the trans debate:

    “There is then a group of people known as the Gender Critical Ultras … it's a kind of purity spiral ... you're not pure enough for them … that's inevitably going to happen with immigration, race, and these discussions.” (08:19, Andrew)

• Resulting Political Paralysis
  • Pete observes:

    "How do you have a cohesive society with so many fractured small groups ... and there's no compromise?" (10:35, Pete)

  • Andrew points to Overton Window shifts and the function of lightning-rod figures like Tommy Robinson.

4. Extreme Views and Their Limits

• Impracticality of Extreme Agendas
  • Pete critiques the far-right proposals discussed by Steve Laws:

    "...at a place where you have a police state, because you have to police ethnicity at the borders..." (18:58, Pete)

  • Andrew agrees these ideas quickly descend into authoritarianism and are unworkable:

    “Doctors looking at your medical records to judge who's fit to stay.” (19:02, Andrew)

5. The Role of Identity and Social Class

• Anywhere vs. Somewhere
  • Andrew references David Goodhart’s "anywhere" vs. "somewhere" dichotomy:

    “There are people who are just somewhere people ... impacted by mass immigration. ... the anywhere people ... tend to be the elites who ... are in charge of the world.” (27:00, Andrew)

• Alienation on Return to UK
  • Andrew discusses returning to the UK after years abroad and finding society more atomized, joke-policed, and “mental”—striking differences particularly evident to returnees. (28:37, Andrew)

6. Moral Fashion and Elite Signaling

• Changing Social Norms
  • Andrew traces “fashionable” morality through history, showing how changing linguistic and social taboos are driven by elite signaling:

    "You can trace swear words in terms of the fashion ... In recent times, it's become identity ... It's just a fashion, I think." (33:38, Andrew)

7. Diagnosing Britain’s Problems: Culture vs. Economics

• Andrew's View: Cultural fragmentation and the loss of national pride threaten social cohesion.

  • “We used to have a higher trust society ... And it's gone.” (46:18, Andrew)

  • He worries about immigrant communities not assimilating, leading to enclaves and diminished shared identity.
  • He also stresses not to judge individuals by ethnicity, warning that path leads to ethnic conflict.
• Pete's View: Economics—wage stagnation, inflation, government debt, asset bubbles—undermine society, with immigration partly a downstream symptom.

  • “I always come back to economics ... if we don’t fix the money and the economics, people are still going to be poorer and face a tougher future.” (67:34, Pete)

8. Feminism, Birth Rates, and Social Change

• Feminism’s Long-Term Effects
  • Both debate whether advances for women in education and career opportunities, combined with broader social changes (like Tinder), have had downstream effects on birth rates and family formation.
  • Andrew ponders:

    “The libertarian feminism ... might have caused a huge downfall in our society.” (78:39, Andrew)

9. AI, Technological Change, and Economic Futility

• AI Taking Jobs
  • Both reflect on how AI is automating away white-collar and creative jobs (e.g., marketing, travel writing), further pressuring the middle class and reshaping society’s structure.
• Debt-Based System vs. Technological Deflation
  • Pete highlights:

    "Technology is deflationary ... but because we live in a debt-based society, that doesn't happen ... money is inflationary." (68:30, Pete)

10. The Global Money Elite & Government Debt

• Elites Pulling the Strings
  • Pete discusses institutional economic power:

    “There’s about 150 people that run the world ... They control most of the important assets. They control the money flows.” (Citing Chamath Palihapitiya, 100:39)

  • They elaborate on how those near the source of new money (central banks, asset managers) disproportionately benefit, exacerbating inequality.
• Unmanageable Government Debt
  • The size of UK debt and its interest burden is discussed in foreboding terms.

11. “Would You Leave?”: Red Lines and Political Breakdown

• Emigration as a Last Resort
  • Andrew reflects on his own backup plans:

    "I would encourage anybody. If we're at a point where we're about to be completely murdered and our country is turning Islamic, get out before it happens.” (107:03, Andrew)

  • He refers to scholarly estimates that UK civil conflict is not inconceivable.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Content Bubble

  “If you show any doubt or in your own thinking, if you try to think in real time, if you try and change your views or anything like that, you're seen by some of these people as a grifter.” – Andrew (15:41)

• On Social Trust Lost

  “And what I see when I open my door in Bristol ... was a world I don't recognize anymore that doesn't recognize me. ... We used to have a higher trust society ... it's gone.” – Andrew (46:18)

• On Political Divisions

  “Every single party in every election is treating the other side like it’s an existential crisis ... if you don't vote for reform, Britain is done ... It was the same in America ... Government still wins. ... the money people still win, the banks still win.” – Pete (56:31)

• On Economic Inequality

  “If you've got enough assets, inflation is amazing. Like if you're sat there with 25 million in assets, you want this to carry on because when everything inflates, your assets inflate and you can leverage in their interest.” – Pete (73:00)

• On Libertarianism and the Role of the State

  “The state should just do three things. It should protect and defend life, liberty and property … Once it's redistribution, [the] morality is inversed and that's how you get culture wars.” – Pete (59:11)

• On Potential for Civil Conflict

  “If we are at a point where we have some kind of Islamic range uprising in this country … I think that is unlikely in the next 10 years, but not inconceivable.” – Andrew (107:31)

Important Timestamps

• 00:00 – Opening reflections on the state of UK society and radicalisation.
• 03:55-05:32 – The trap of algorithm-driven content and personal integrity for creators.
• 08:19 – Purity spirals and being attacked by online tribes for not aligning with orthodoxy.
• 15:23 – Discussing blowback and good faith responses to controversial podcast interviews.
• 27:00 – "Anywhere vs. somewhere" people and mass immigration's impact.
• 33:38 – Social taboo as fashion and shifting language in identity politics.
• 46:18 – Culture, trust, and assimilation: Andrew’s diagnosis of social fragmentation.
• 67:34 – Pete’s argument: the UK’s fundamental rot is economic, not just cultural.
• 73:00-76:35 – How asset inflation, debt systems, and tax burden hollow out the middle class.
• 78:39 – Questioning libertarian feminism and its long-term effects.
• 86:39-87:37 – AI, work, and the future: what happens when jobs disappear?
• 100:39 – The Chamath Palihapitiya quote: “150 people run the world ... and they're all men.”
• 107:03 – On red lines: “If we're at a point where we're about to be completely murdered and our country is turning Islamic, get out before it happens.”
• 112:13 – How collective action toppled Scientology, and why famous people breaking silence could shift the culture war tides.

Flow & Tone

The conversation is candid, sometimes bleak but often laced with dark humor and self-deprecation. Andrew provides the outsider’s cultural perspective, often using stories from his travels to illuminate British issues. Pete’s tone is relentless on economic critique, but both wrestle openly with their own biases, fears, and contradictions—making for an honest, thoughtful, and sometimes provocative listen.

Conclusion

This episode offers a raw analysis of Britain’s cultural and economic malaise, arguing that radicalisation is fostered by both social and algorithmic incentives, and warning that neither “fixing” the culture nor the economy alone will repair the nation. Both Andrew and Pete root for tougher, more open dialogue—even as they recognize their own limitations and the daunting complexity facing modern Britain.