PMQs #007 - Why Trump Wants Venezuela

Summary

The Peter McCormack Show – PMQs #007: Why Trump Wants Venezuela

Date: January 6, 2026
Host: Peter McCormack
Guest/Co-host: Conor McCormack

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Brief Overview

In this special "PMQs" edition, Peter and his son Conor dive into the dramatic U.S. operation removing Venezuela’s President Nicolás Maduro, discussing why Trump undertook this intervention, global and cultural reactions, and what may come next for Venezuela and the world order. The episode explores geopolitics, oil, the failures of socialism, regime change, the limits of international law, and why memes shape the younger generation’s perceptions. Peter’s personal connection to Venezuela brings first-hand insight and a nuanced view on intervention and self-determination.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Intro: Cultural Reactions, Memes, and First Impressions (00:00-03:17)

• Memes as Politics:
  • Younger people engage with major events like the U.S. intervention in Venezuela mostly through memes, not traditional news.
    • "It's the culture war now. It's all memes. That's how you get your opinion out there. Who gets the most likes on their meme." – Conor (01:51)
    • Peter expresses astonishment at how significant historical events are processed via internet jokes.
  • Generational Divide:
    • Peter notes that while some (notably in the Bitcoin and conservative communities) cheered Maduro’s removal, wider left-leaning and anti-Trump public opinion were outraged, citing regime change history, international law, and general distrust of U.S. intervention.

2. Reflections on Venezuela—First-Hand Experience (05:24-13:05)

• Peter’s Trip to Venezuela:
  • Describes his documentary travels in Venezuela and Colombia, witnessing severe poverty, collapsed infrastructure, and people desperately fleeing for survival.
    • "I think the average salary in Venezuela is something like five, ten dollars a month. People are living on close to nothing." – Peter (07:29)
    • Sharing a story of gifting $60 to a desperate family, highlighting Venezuela’s dire poverty (08:39-09:11).
  • Noted the regime’s dominance: Murals of Chávez and Maduro everywhere, massive state-organized rallies, and the use of food aid ("CLAP") to buy loyalty.
• Support Among Venezuelans:
  • Nearly all Venezuelans Peter knows (inside and out) were overjoyed at Maduro’s ouster, unlike many Western protestors.
    • "This is the happiest day of my life!" – Peter, quoting Venezuelan friend Mao (05:57)

3. Why Do People Support or Oppose the Intervention? (03:17-04:39; 13:13-18:39)

• Leftist Inconsistency:
  • Peter and Conor note irony: Western progressives use the term ‘fascist’ for their opponents yet defend an actual dictator when Trump acts.
• Self-Interest & Projection:
  • Protests in the US/UK are often less about Venezuela, more about being anti-Trump or reflexively anti-U.S. action, with little real understanding of Venezuelan reality.
• Collapse of Socialism:
  • Venezuela once benefited from oil but lost its middle class, saw an 80% contraction in its economy, and now features rampant poverty and malnutrition.
    • "There is nobody who's lived under socialism in Venezuela who wants it." – Peter (15:13)
    • "Look at any single one [socialist experiment] in the entirety of history. It's never worked." – Conor (16:24)
  • Contrasts with Poland (which went capitalist and thrived) versus Venezuela going socialist and collapsing (16:02-16:13).

4. Was the U.S. Invasion Justified? The Libertarian Dilemma and International Law (18:41-31:44)

• Libertarian Dilemma:
  • Peter conflicted: Non-interventionist leanings vs. celebrating the "badass" surgical removal of a dictator.
• International Law is Broken:
  • Conor pushes: "If there's no legal case, then you're basically saying the U.S. can go into any country and take anyone..."
  • Peter insists that international law is now routinely ignored by all great powers: Iraq, Ukraine, Hong Kong.
    • "International law collapsed on the second Iraq war..." – Peter (24:15)
  • The reality is power, not legality:
    • "If someone disagrees, they've got to litigate this. Who's going to litigate against the United States?" – Peter (30:47)

On U.S. Legal Justification: (25:58-28:30)

• Citing Article 51 self-defense, U.S. rationalizes removal of Maduro based on his regime being a "narco-state" threatening U.S. security.
• Both acknowledge this legal cover is "flimsy" but “they’ve built their case.”

5. The Real World: Power Politics & Tiers of Sovereignty (33:23-39:09)

• World Defined by Power:
  • Quoting Andrew Tate (33:23), only tier-1 countries (U.S., Russia, China) can act with impunity. Everyone else must align.
    • "Those are real countries... America can't kidnap Putin or Xi, and Xi can't kidnap Trump or Putin." – Andrew Tate (E) (33:23)
  • UN is "impotent" as every great power vetoes resolutions against their interests.
• Proxy Wars are the Norm:
  • Peter: "For as long as I've been alive, America and Russia have fought proxy wars rather than fighting each other." (36:01)

6. What's Next? How Will the U.S. Stabilize Venezuela? (41:11-53:23)

• What is the Plan?
  • Skepticism over the lack of a clear post-coup U.S. plan; concern over a repeat of Iraq/Syria/Libya blunders.
  • Two scenarios:
    • 1. Immediate imposition of the opposition leader risks civil war and social breakdown;
    • 2. Gradual, managed reform with regime elements retained but under U.S. oversight, aiming for future elections and phased democratization.
      • "If the end state is a popular, democratically elected leader... you have to have a bridge [period]...immediate removal...you're going to have chaos." – Peter (49:46-51:45)
  • Emphasize the need to avoid “boots on the ground” and a drawn-out occupation.
• Oil as American Interest but Possible Win-Win:
  • Peter acknowledges oil is a motive but believes long-term U.S. interest is a stable, prosperous trading partner.

7. Impotence of Protests and Western Politicians; The Memeification of Serious Events (53:32-56:09)

• Western Politicians Are Out of Touch:
  • Dismisses Zara Sultana and other socialists as "retarded," unable to grasp real suffering or power realities (53:45-54:10).
• Memes Revisited:
  • Internet culture is the main lens for major global events:
    • "[Memes are] brilliant. Train my day. Joe Rogan podcast by night..." – Peter (54:23)
    • Absurdity of events: P. Diddy braiding Maduro’s hair memes, “Venezuela Grande Again” parodies.

8. Marco Rubio Admiration & Leadership Archetypes (55:51-57:08)

• Conor's admiration for Marco Rubio:
  • "He just speaks straight to the facts. Doesn't [mess] around."
  • Peter: "He's based."
  • They pine for more serious, 'badass' leaders versus the perceived weakness of UK politicians.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the irrelevance of international law:
  • "International law collapsed on the second Iraq war...UN is just impotent. The world is run by those three countries [U.S., Russia, China]." – Peter (24:15–25:18; 33:23)
• On the reality of Venezuelan socialism:
  • "There is nobody who's lived under socialism in Venezuela who wants it." – Peter (15:13)
• On the meme-driven news cycle:
  • "It's the culture war now. It's all memes. That's how you get your opinion out there." – Conor (01:51)
• On oil and intervention:
  • "[Venezuelans say:] If Trump needs that oil to give us freedom, then that's a price we're willing to pay, just so that we have our freedom and make a change." – Interview Clip (14:43)
• On U.S. power and hypocrisy:
  • "It's easy to see through. ... It doesn't matter. This is the way the world works." – Conor (30:52–32:41)
• On the fate of lesser nations:
  • "[Tate:] Tier two, you get to choose who you align with. Tier three, you don't have a choice." (35:06)
• On the future of Venezuela:
  • "You have to have a path to democracy. That's what I'd tell Don to do." – Peter (51:43)
• On the memeification of tragedy:
  • "If you're listening and not watching this, this is an image and it's P. Diddy, I think. Is he braiding the hair of Maduro? Did you say they took my order? But this one..." (54:59)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Memes, youth, and the first reaction: 00:38–01:58
• Venezuelan feedback to Maduro's ouster: 05:42–06:36
• Peter’s Venezuela trip – stories from the border: 07:29–09:11
• The socialist collapse, Poland vs. Venezuela comparison: 16:02–16:30
• International law debate: 24:15–26:34
• Power tiers & Andrew Tate clip: 33:23–35:16
• On the future and risks of U.S. action: 41:11–53:23
• Meme showcase & cultural satire: 54:17–56:01
• Admiration for Marco Rubio, style of leadership: 55:51–57:08

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Tone and Style

The episode blends conversational candor, dark humor, generational banter, and hard-nosed pragmatism on global affairs. Peter is openly biased, emotionally invested (through friendships and personal trips), skeptical of Western "virtue-signalers," and eager to discuss realpolitik. Conor provides a detached, younger perspective, offering cynicism, meme-culture references, and pointed logical challenges.

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Conclusion

This episode unpacks a seismic intervention in Venezuela through layered perspectives: personal, political, generational, and global. It’s as much about the failures of socialist regimes and the hypocrisy of Western protest culture as it is about oil, U.S. power projection, and the limits of international law. For Peter and Conor, the world is what it is—not what we wish it to be—and Venezuela’s future depends on pragmatic reform, not idealistic revolution. The only certainty: the memes will keep coming.

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For more detail, see Peter’s accompanying Substack article: "Venezuela and the Violence of Doing Nothing."

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Happy New Year and welcome to another episode of PMQs. I'm your host. I'm Peter McCormack. I have got your boy, the radical, the groiper, the revolutionary, Conor McCormack. How you doing, boy?

[B]

Good.

[A]

Happy New Year.

[B]

You too.

[A]

Did you have a good Christmas and a good break?

[B]

Yeah, it was all right.

[A]

We've met Ardon. We've done a show since Christmas, haven't we? We did. We did a final one of the year where we ranted about inflation and the government. It's been a quiet start to the.

[B]

Year, just a few.

[A]

Few what?

[B]

Near wars.

[A]

Near wars. Was it a war?

[B]

No.

[A]

Does it count as a war if it lasts 12 minutes? We are obviously talking about Venezuela. Is that something young people think about? Do they talk about it? Have you had any conversations about Venezuela in the last few days with any of your friends?

[B]

I don't really speak to any of my friends.

[A]

You're too crazy.

[B]

I just, I gotta speak to four year olds now.

[A]

Hey, where are I? As 40 year olds, I guess you're. I bet your main contact with this is through memes and.

[B]

Yeah, and probably for a lot of use. Like they don't actually, they don't realize who Maduro is, but they've seen Trump dancing.

[A]

There's some dude half naked with his eyes and his ears closed off, drinking a non GDPR compliant bottle of water and dancing and singing.

[B]

The diddy ones.

[A]

Do you know what? That's the wild thing about this. You know, there is a potential shift in geopolitics, the global world power order. Then you just spend half your day cracking up at memes.

[B]

It's the culture war now. It's all memes. That's how you get your opinion out there. Who gets the most likes on their meme.

[A]

Is that how. Is that how young people get the news? Through memes? I think so. Fuck, we're so fucked. It's such a. It's such a weird one. Like we need to get into this because two things. I've been to, I've been to Venezuela. We could talk about that. And when it, when it was first announced that Trump had sent in the guys, they black bagged Maduro and whisked him out of Venezuela and taking him to New York on a drug. Actually, it was on a machine gun indictment. Anyway, whatever the excuse was, I was like immediately celebrating. I was, I was like, this is cool. The dictator is gone. And then, and then I, I noticed that like the majority of public and the majority of public opinion was losing Their shit. It seemed like the people from my world, the people hate the government, the bitcoiners and a few of the more base conservatives were like, yeah, this is great, this is cool. Happy with this. And then pretty much everyone was like losing their shit for all kinds of reasons, all different arguments. Regime change never works and international law, whatever. And I think we should talk about, talk about those arguments and get into that a little bit. But I was celebrating. I was like, I was, I thought this was cool.

[B]

It's so ironic though, like, why, when they're defending a dictator and that's what they say to your Trumps and your Nigels, it's like, he's a dictator, he's a fascist. And then you go and defend one. When you try and get democracy in a region like, well, I think, look.

[A]

I think there are like.

[B]

I mean, there's the added element of communism, which they love, but.

[A]

Well, look, your Mandamis are obviously, they've lost and your Jeremy Corbyns have lost one of their comrades. They've been taken down and another one of their socialist experiments has failed and is collapsing as being exposed for the bullshit it is. I think there's like a group of people who are, you know, they're concerned, they've got their legitimate concerns because they care about the global world order. I think you've then got a bunch of people just hate Trump. So because Trump did it, they just hate it. And they're marching down Portland with their green hair and, you know, chanting for free Maduro. There's that protest industrial complex where suddenly like Trump does something and then Portland, New York, la, San Francisco, all like, the green heads are out and they're marching. They're like, this is bullshit. So I think there's all these, like, different dynamics at play. I think we should get into some of that as well. I want to talk about some of that.

[B]

Let's get into it.

[A]

I want to talk about why, like, I was happy. And it does come to that kind of libertarian dilemma. It's like non interventionist, anti war. Like, every part of this doesn't feel good. And, and I remember the build up because we had Trump and his team blowing up the apparent narco boats and boarding the oil tankers. And if somebody had said to me, like, yo, Pete, you've got a vote on this, America's going to declare war on Venezuela, I'd been like, absolutely not. This is not cool. I'm not cool with this. But you kind of just wake up one day and you hear, yeah, A bunch of marines just flew into Venezuela and they black bagged Maduro and he's gone. And you're like, holy shit. That's kind of cool.

[B]

It's badass.

[A]

It's a badass.

[B]

But also I would say like quite surgical situation is close to you. You've been there, you've seen it, you've got friends there. I mean, the guy you rang, it was like, that's a close friend of yours and you're bringing him. You're like, you can tell he's happy, the family's happy. They're like, oh, we might actually have a chance of going back to our home.

[A]

Well, I mean, look, that was the first thing I did. I thought Mao, a friend of mine who used to live in Venezuela, he had a bitcoin mining company. And state seized all his equipment because the state needs money and he had to escape the country. And so he was the first person I thought of. I've known Mao for years now. So I gave him a call and he was like, this is the happiest day of my life. This is the best day ever. And that pretty much every Venezuelan. No, no, not pretty much every single Venezuelan I know who was outside of the country. Actually, even. Even a guy I know who's still in there is like, this is the best thing ever. And then all your wokey liberals are like, no, this is. It's a bit like that video.

[B]

It's eluded.

[A]

Well, it's that video we saw. Do you remember where there's like that Venezuelan who is arguing with the liberal wokie in New York. And the liberal wokie is like, free Maduro and don't touch Venezuela, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, I'm from Venezuela, I want this shit.

[B]

Yeah. I can't be arsed, like, because everything is just a counter. How do I counter what I don't like? It's all ideology.

[A]

It's the world we live in now, my boy. But yes, look, I went to Venezuela. I went four years ago. I fancy myself as a documentary maker. I'd made one film over in. Where is it? Turkey. And then I found out my camera guy, I was like, I think we should go to Venezuela. We should go to Venezuela. Caracas, I think like the murder capital of the world. And I think we should just go around and talk to people and find out what's happening. And so we went out to Kukata first. That's on the border of Colombia. And yeah, man, it was. Saw some pretty, pretty bad shit. So when you get to the border. We were driving up in our car, and there were, like, hundreds of young men, and they kind of chase you and follow the car, and they tap on the window. And I was like, you know, obviously, what is this about? And basically, they need to earn money. So any car they see as a potential person who wants something smuggled into the country to either be sold or sent to friends and family for whatever reason. And those routes are controlled by, like, militias. But these people are so desperate to make money because I think the average salary in Venezuela is something like five, ten dollars a month. People are living on close to nothing. And so these people, they've got no work in Venezuela and they need to earn some money. So they go to the border and they try and do that. And that was a bit kind of, like, weird. Anyway, we parked up and we went to. There's like, all these different. Not warehouses, but, like, buildings where charities are operating, feeding people, because people are so hungry, they just walk out the country and they come here because they get fed. And we went to do some interviews, and we met this guy who was with his pregnant wife. They were quite young. They'd been sleeping on the street. So they had. I think they had two more kids in Venezuela that were with his parents. They traveled to the border so he could try and earn money because he'd send it back to his parents.

[B]

What's this? The border? Into where?

[A]

This is the border between Venezuela and Colombia. So they're in Colombia, and, like, 8 million people have fled Venezuela just to go into other parts of South America and other parts of the world, because you cannot survive in Venezuela easily. But this guy, him and his wife had. That was their first night there. They slept on the street. Anyway, we did the interview, and afterwards, I was like, I got to give this guy some money, and I had empty my pocket. I had, like, 60 bucks. So I just gave it to him. Didn't even think about it. I wouldn't buy you a round of cocktails, buy you one trainer. Like, it's like, I'm not being a dick.

[B]

The left foot, maybe.

[A]

Well, but I. You know, I was. I was green to this, right? And so I gave him the 60 bucks. He collapsed in tears and then walked off, went to the border and gone. And I said to the guy, I was like, what? Just explain to me what happened. He's like, I didn't. I knew it was bad in Venezuela, but I hadn't been in yet. And he said, $60 is basically enough to feed his whole family for a month. And I was like, huh, Okay, I get it. Okay, I understand. And so then we flew into Crackers. We were met by a handler, and we just spent three or four days there traveling around. We went into the. We're so stupid. We went into the Barrios without, like, basically a guy in a van and two guys with cameras. Barrios can be quite dangerous, right?

[B]

Yeah, but you're tired up, dude.

[A]

It was a. It was. It was not sensible. We parked up, we went to meet this. This woman who told us how she lives and survives. And basically they had this cryptocurrency at one point that they used to get, but they also get access to subsidized food. And anyway, we met her. Then we went to a charity which protects vulnerable women who are being violently abused, and then another charity where they feed and educate kids. And it was like nothing I'd ever seen. This is a collapse of society. Right. So anyway. Oh, and there was another day we. We were in the Caracas, just on the edge, and we suddenly heard this massive, loud roar. And we saw loads of people, kind of protesters coming over this bridge. It's all pro Maduro. Pro Maduro. And we'd been traveling. One of the things when you travel around outside of Caracas is there are posters and murals of Chavez and Maduro everywhere. Like, everywhere. Anyway, they all come over cheering for the regime. And we eventually find a guy will talk to us off record, so camera off. And he just said, like, the reason they support the regime is because they can't afford food. And so there's this thing called clap, which is like this network that distributes food, subsidized food out to people so they can survive. And it's in return for support of the regime. So, anyway, so we did all this, got on the plane, actually got to the airport. I bought a small pack of M M's. There were $5. I got on the plane and flew home. And it was like this whole experience, I was like, oh, that country is.

[B]

That's what I mean. Like, it doesn't matter how libertarian you are. When you've seen it firsthand, you've got a different perspective on it.

[A]

Yeah. And also kind of built up a network of friends, got to know some other people. And what. What I came to understand is, because I interviewed a few of them on the old podcast, is that there is this network of exiled journalists, activists, politicians. They don't just leave the country and go to Madrid and just drink lattes and live a new life. They all want to return to Venezuela. Of course.

[B]

It's your home.

[A]

Yeah, they want to return home. And so they are always working on ideas and plans to support opposition politicians for every election to try and get rid of Maduro. And they work with the American government, they have connections, they're strategically working together. And so yeah, I've been aware of this for some time. And they'd always said, specifically one guy had always said to me, the only way Maduro goes is they need help from America. That's literally the only way it's going to ever happen. Otherwise there's just indefinite dictatorship because the dictator, Mr. Maduro sits on a sea of oil which they do have access to and they can sell. Actually, I read this week they reckon he's extracted about somewhere between 1 and $2.5 billion for himself.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. It's hard to think of such a poor nation when they're sat on that.

[A]

Well. So the thing about Venezuela, it's got the largest oil reserves in the world. I think it's 13% larger than the Saudi Arabia, but it's heavy oil. And like I am not an expert at this by the way, but from what I understand is, is that it's hard to extract and also it's specific, only specific refineries can refine this oil. And so there was a long term relationship with America. Basically America went in and set up the industry for the Venezuelans. They didn't have the infrastructure, whatever. And before America put in the sanctions, I think they were refining something like 40 to 50% of this heavy oil. So there was this like intrinsic relationship with America. And then after the sanctions, this kind of 10 to 20%. And so even though the sanctions worsened the situation in the country, like yes, you can't argue against that. And I'm not a fan of sanctions. There was a cost to America as well of doing this. But what's been really interesting is watching I, apart from some videos of like these pro Maduro rallies in Venezuela since he's gone, which there's a very good reason for, I haven't seen a single Venezuelan against it. Everyone against it is like in the western bubble from the privileged bubble of living in a safe democracy. And I think when you see socialism up close, you understand how devastated it is. And like some of the facts are just. What's this video?

[B]

This was the, oh, the lady that got interviewed.

[A]

Oh, this is about the oil?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Again, people don't live through it. They won't know how desperate us Venezuelans are for a change. I Know, they're talking about Trump only wanting the oil, but everybody's there for the oil. Russia, Iran, everybody's there for the oil already. China. So if Trump needs that oil to give us freedom, then that's a price we're willing to pay just so that we have our freedom and make a change. In 26 years, nobody has done anything for our country except for Trump.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so, okay, there's two points on there and it's quite funny as we have all these socialist libtards at the moment pushing their socialist agenda, like openly socialist. You've got Mandami doing his crazy shit in New York, you've got your party and all the commies in the UK like pushing socialism. There is nobody who's lived under socialism in Venezuela who wants it. Like, the stats are staggering. I mean, Dave Smith talked about on his show last night, he said was quite interesting is there's this comparison between Venezuela and Poland. And at the time when Poland. Well, there was communism. Yeah. I think Venezuela was the richest country in South America, one of the richest countries of the world. Much richer than Poland. Poland went capitalist. Venezuela went south.

[B]

Where it does that.

[A]

Yeah, it like converts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Venezuela went socialist and now Poland. I mean, Poland's about to approach the IS. Didn't they say by 2030 it'd be bigger than the UK economy?

[B]

Let's see that one.

[A]

It's crazy. And so if you ever need any evidence that socialism just doesn't work, the answer is Venezuela. And look, I get it.

[B]

I mean, the answer is history. Look at any single one in the entirety of history. It's never worked.

[A]

But Norway, man, Norway, Nordic States. Yeah, look, Chavez won power at a time where there was still inflation. I think it was like 70% inflation before he came to power. But he came into power as a socialist revolutionary, was going to take the oil wealth and spread it amongst people. And he was popular. But he did lose popularity. Okay. And what he did was decimate the middle class. They're all the people who fled the country, the middle class. He decimated the country. I think the economy through both Chavez and Maduro has contracted by 80%. That is significantly worse than, I think the Great Depression. And so what's happened in that country, you now have people like you say in the country that has 13% more oil than Saudi. And look at Saudi now look at the uae, look at those countries. I mean, look at the infrastructure, the buildings, the skyscrapers and people going to live there. When you compare that to what's happened to Venezuela, you have 90% people living in poverty, 75% living in extreme poverty. The average wage, like I say, is like five to $10 a month. We spent more than that in the shop this morning. Like 5 to $10 a month. 30 to 35% of kids are suffering from malnutrition. There's no hope, there's no opportunity. There's nothing good to be said about socialism in. In Venezuela. And when you see these politicians, I can't. What's his name? Bergen, that guy who's organizing protests, and Jeremy Corbyn and all these people who've previously celebrated socialism in Venezuela. Let's be honest, these people are fucking idiots.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, as much as I detest the liberal stance on this, and, like, having an opinion on a country you've never lived in, it's done. Like, just look at the Venezuelans. We also sat down and watched the press conference in Mar a Lago, and I found that a very tough listen as well, because they're trying to come up with a story which fits the narrative, which is kind of not the truth.

[A]

Yeah, fair.

[B]

Both sides are like.

[A]

But this is where I go back to my argument. America doesn't have to be altruistic with this. My argument is that they tried everything in Venezuela in the 2023 election. They tried everything. They created this network of, like, observers who went to every single polling station and kept records of all the polling and the results.

[D]

They.

[A]

There was these government stamp tallies that they smuggled out. They photographed everything. And so when they started to release the results, it was so obvious that Edmundo was winning. And the thing about it was is that prior to that, when the primaries had run, the opposition politicians were so successful, they banned them from running. So they planned for everything, every single thing the state would throw out this election, they planned for. They'd won the election. Right. And so what happens? What does the Maduro regime do? They turn off the Internet, they claim there's a cyber attack, and then suddenly they release the results. I can't remember if they said he had 51 or 55% of the vote. And obviously, when you control the guns, the courts, when you control the army, you control the media, you just get to go, yeah, fuck you. We basically won. Didn't provide any data, any proof they stole the election. And I think that was the point where everyone realized, there's nothing that can be done in this country. There's literally nothing that can be done in this country. We don't control the guns, we don't control the we don't control anything. We did every single thing right to prove we'd won this election and Maduro just stole it.

[B]

So why can't they just say that how it is? Like they've got to come up with oh, he's a drug trafficker and this and that and this and that and like.

[A]

Well, we'll come to that.

[B]

Doesn't the CIA bring drugs into America?

[A]

Historically? Apparently so. Tom Cruise made a film about them flying it in. But I, I think that was the point. They knew. That was the point America knew. There is no legitimate way of removing Maduro. And by the way, yeah, some of the windows guy. And he is the president of El Salvador. Sorry, he is the president of Venezuela. No, he's not. Sorry, he's not, he's not a legitimate president. Anyone who says he is a moron. He is a guy who tortures people, executes protesters. It's like videos. They're driving trucks over protesters, they shoot them, they jail them, they force them into exile. He is a dictator who is impoverishing the life of people. He is causing kids to live under malnutrition. There is no hope or whatever. So let's just, let's just go. Base fact. There is no internationally approved legitimate way of getting rid of it. None. This show is brought to you by my lead sponsor, Ayran the AI cloud for the next big thing. Iron builds and operates next generation data centers and delivers cutting edge GPU infrastructure all powered by renewable energy. Now if you need access to scalable GPU clusters or are simply curious about who is powering the future of AI to check out iren.com to learn more, which is I r e n dot com. So how do you get rid of it? And I went back and I talk about this so much on the show, I talk. Sorry, but. Sorry I keep talking about the Declaration of Independence but I think it's the most consequential document in the history of this world and it talks about then unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And when a government, I can't remember the actual quote, but like when a government is not. Oh, I wish I knew the quote.

[B]

When it's not performing. Yeah, take it down.

[A]

You have the right to remove that government, replace it with something that is. I think objectively that the people of Venezuela have a right to do this. And look, when America, when the colonies wanted to get rid of us, us, the British, twice get rid of us with our tea, they couldn't, they didn't do on their own, they had the help of France. France provided naval support, Provence provided money and weapons strategy. I know they didn't go and black bag George iii, but they did provide support. America exists because a stronger power with more resources helped them. Okay. I think it is arguably exactly the same is that the Venezuelans required a stronger power to help them. And yes, people are going to argue about the, you know, America going to a state and kidnapping leader, but I think the situations are the same. They tried everything. This was the only option left on the table. So like that's my point on that. And America doesn't have to be altruistic. America can want the oil. Okay, so be it. Is there a win win here? It's like that video you just showed.

[B]

But I just wish they said it because it's obvious.

[A]

Yes, okay, but they kind of did in some ways Trump was like, we're going to get the oil pumping again, we're going to rebuild the nation. But they did have a legal case because look, I looked into this.

[B]

Interesting, but did they have to have a legal case? Is that the point?

[A]

What? No, I mean if they, they have zero legal case, what's anyone going to do about it?

[B]

Well, so then if, if there's no legal case then you're basically saying the US can go into any country and take anyone and put them in prison for no reason whatsoever. I mean you do have to have a legal case.

[A]

I think it depends on how you view. It's like this international law question. Is there international law and does it matter? Well, apparently there is international law for me that collapsed on the second Iraq war because the, you, the un, I can't remember which article, but the UN says you ha. It can, you can attack another country in self defense or if there's agreement from, from the un. They did not get that resolution from the un. America and the US built their coalition of the willing, attacked Iraq anyway destabilize a reason region. Millions died. We had the largest protests in the UK ever. I think a million people protest on the street. They never gave a shit about the law. Then Russia never gave a shit about the law when it entered Ukraine. China doesn't give a shit about the law when it entered. When it took Hong Kong like so what is the role of international law is? If you think there is a legal case, well then make one.

[B]

So that's my point. They have to make a legal case instead of just saying it how it is. Trump can't go out there and just say there's no international Law, Fuck your international law. I'm going to do what I like.

[A]

Well, he kind of can think about it like this. Well think about this. If it's, it's only litigation if someone litigates you. So.

[B]

But he didn't say. Because he said this is a criminal and a drug runner and an arms dealer.

[A]

Well, this goes back to. Let me dig out the notes because I did look into this.

[B]

It's down to, I think Marco Rubio, he did a pretty good job of.

[A]

Basically just saying that's your new man crush, isn't it?

[B]

I think he's fucking good. He says it how it is, which I like. Here we go, straight up with the facts.

[A]

Article 51. Look, this is flimsy, but this is self defense. If Maduro is credibly, directly or materially supporting armed criminal terrorist activity, drug trafficked kin and paranormal military violence, does the activity cause serious harm to the United States? Not just drugs, abstractly, but organized transnational violence. Is Venezuela unwilling or unable to suppress the threat itself? Is the response necessary and proportionate? Is the action limited in scope? Capture, removal, not regime wide war? So I can make the case based on this because we do know what.

[B]

Of that stuff is the US not doing into itself.

[A]

Yeah, but that's a different point. Let's stick to this.

[B]

Well, it's not really.

[A]

Well no, because this is the case they're making.

[B]

Yes. And I'm making the case. They're doing that already to themselves.

[A]

So let's make that case separately. Let's not mix the two. Let's do them two separately. Let's do this one first. And let's say why did they make the legal case under Article 51? Okay, well because they probably sat there and thought everyone, we're not getting approval from Congress and we are going in and black bagging the leader of another country and everyone's going to come at us. So let's look at what they did.

[B]

This is my exact point though.

[A]

Yeah, but, but this exists in Article 51. So let's, let's go, let's go step by step. Is Maduro credibly directing on materially supporting armed criminal terrorist activity, drug trafficking, paramilitary violence? Yes, it's a narco state. Okay. The drugs are run through Venezuela, some do get into America inarguably. Does the activity cause serious harm to the United States? Not just drugs abstractly, but organized transnational violence? Yes, we know there's Venezuelan gangs in America. They've been deported, I think. Didn't they send some to secot? Probably yeah. Okay. Is Venezuela unwilling or unable to suppress that threat itself? Clearly. Is the response necessary or proportionate? I mean, what is necessary and proportionate? They move the head of state. Is the action limited in scope? Capture, removal, not regime. What, so it's not a war. They went in surgical removal. If it's a war, it lasted about 12 minutes. Now, look, it isn't universally accepted and it is flimsy, but they've built their case. They indicted him in New York, he's now there to stand trial. I think we know it's more than just this, but they've built their case. Now that's. Now the position is if you disagree with them, sue them, take out a legal case.

[B]

I don't disagree. I'm just saying, why not just say it how it is. I'm sure all that is true, but the reality which we know is there is a massive upside in taking over one of the countries with the largest oil reserve beneath it.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Just say that.

[A]

Totally. Yeah. But I don't. You've got to be. It's game of chess, right? You've got to be strategic about it.

[B]

Well, if you're going to, if that's your reasoning, why not go take Putin?

[A]

Because you have to be strategic, okay? Wars you can win and wars you can't. That's that absolutist argument, which I just don't buy. I've seen it. It's like, well, why aren't they going to these African countries and why aren't they going to this country? It's like, look, all countries act in self interest. This is why the UN is impotent. This is why every single resolution on Israel, America either abstains or vetoes. This is why every single resolution with Ukraine, Russia vetoes. This is why anything that attacks the economic situation of China, they veto. So the UN set up with best interest of the world after World War II to try and stop that happening again. I totally get it. It was set up with the best interest, but it's completely impotent because it's not there to serve the best interests of individual states. It's the self interest of the three major powers.

[B]

Which is why I think this is bollocks.

[A]

Well, yeah, it is.

[B]

Because it doesn't matter what he's done. It's for the best interests of the US and if, if that was a rule of thumb, why not go for Putin and why not go for the African leaders? Because you have to act in the best self interest. So it's all a bunch of bollocks. It doesn't matter.

[A]

Of course. Okay, look, both things can be true. It can be true that this is in the self interest of America. Right. Russia, not Russian. Venezuelan oil. And this could be in the self interest of. You can make an argument that this is America first. Right. But you can also make the argument that it's good to have a legal position ready and prepared.

[B]

You have to have a legal position.

[A]

Sure. Because now someone, if someone disagrees, they've got to litigate this. Go and litigate it. Who's going to litigate against the United States? Sure. There you go. So it just. It just happens.

[B]

But what I just. It's easy to see through.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And I don't think a lot of people do see through it, but this.

[A]

Is where it's like. It goes back to, like, why even make the show? Why even listen to Peter and Connor make this show? Because I think you have to live in with a foot in two different worlds. You have to have a foot in the way you want the world to be, and then you have to have a foot in the way the world is. Okay. Okay. The way the world I want it to be is I want Russia and Ukraine to be friends and not attack each other and cross and be friendly and drink together and be friends, but they're not. They hate each other. And I don't want Russia to attack Ukraine, but they did, and now there's a war there. Okay. And I wanted Hong Kong to be independent. China took it back and I want Taiwan to stay independent. China probably goes and takes it back at some point. Right. Takes it back. Somebody might even correct me on that, but wants to kill you.

[B]

It's the real world.

[A]

Yeah. The real world right now is. Is the world is dictated by the people who run it and their personalities, their agendas or whatever. Okay?

[B]

Three countries.

[A]

Three countries. We should look at that tape thing because actually that's interesting. But. But that is like. And the reason I say the way the world I want it to be. I want it to be all lovey dovey and nice and everyone get along, but then I've got one foot, Connor, in the way the world is. Why? Because if geopolitics is shifting and we have war in Europe at the moment and America is flexing its chest out and things again feel a bit sketchy. I want to go, well, this is the way the world is. I live in the uk. We're an impotent nation. We've got an impotent Prime Minister. We are heading into a socialist hellhole. Is this the country I want to be in? I love it. Is it safe? Is it good for you and your sister? So I have a foot in where?

[B]

No, no, no, no.

[A]

Also, I have a foot in the way the world really is. And it's like Pharasmo, dad, right? That's just the reality of the world. You can cry as much as how you want it to be. This is just how it is. See, I can cry and complain about inflation. It's not going away. So with a foot in the world, in the world, how it actually is, I then can make better, reformed decisions. I don't have to agree with it. I just accept its reality. It's like. It's like when you learn that Santa Claus isn't real. I wanted Santa to be real. I wanted. Every year, even now, I wanted Santa to come down the chimney, bring me a chocolate orange, new pair of socks. He's not real.

[B]

Anyway.

[A]

In your favor. Yes.

[E]

Internet, the law isn't real. So Tier one countries can defend themselves. It's the only real countries. And these real countries that exist on the planet are as follows. Usa, Russia, Usa, Russia and China, Tier one, those are real countries that America interchangeably. They can't just invade the other one. USA can't kidnap Putin or Xi, and Xi can't kidnap Trump or Putin. You understand? These are Tier one countries that could defend their national interests.

[A]

The weird thing about this is I watched it and I was like, fucking nailed it. I mean, that is the reality of the world, is you can hate Andrew Tate and you can. You can hate Trump. Doesn't matter. This is how the world operates now. So if you look at Russia, Russia entered Ukraine, and everyone's trying to fight them back, but, like, they just did it. Russia, Putin does what he wants, China does what they want. Okay? They've been stealing intellectual property from around the world in the interest of their own country. They've been raging their own economic warfare, and they've been marshaling the South China seas. Like, they do what the. They do what they want. Okay? And actually, what's happened with Trump is, again, whether you like him or not, he's, like, flexing his chest against those and saying, hold on. Don't forget, America. We're the original world power. And he's flexing his chest. So that's just the reality. Can the UK do this? Fuck that. No, we can't do this.

[B]

Well, he went on to say, there's Tier two countries, Tier three, right? Tier two, you get to choose who you align yourself with. One of the three and Tier three, you don't have a choice.

[A]

Shithole countries, equal.

[B]

Yeah, but you don't have a choice. They tell you, right, we're the us you align with us. If you don't, we'll fuck you up.

[A]

And that's been, like, the case since everyone went nuclear. It's like, well, America, China and Russia don't wanna have a war. Cause if they have a war, they're gonna start throwing nukes and the whole world's over.

[B]

But they've gotta retaliate to this. No. Well, I think if you're Putin and you wake up and you see Trump's done this in a country which you are helping, currently allied with. Yeah. If you sit back and just say, that's all right.

[A]

Well, it's a game of chess.

[B]

Yeah. But also, you're omitting defeat. You're saying, Trump can basically go and do what he likes now without any consequence.

[A]

I don't see it like that. I think for as long as I've been alive, American Russia has fought proxy wars rather than fighting each other. Doesn't matter where it is. All around the world, proxy wars. Afghanistan, wherever. They've just fought these proxy wars and they play games like, Ukraine wanted to become part of NATO, wanted to become part of the eu, is friendly. They wanted to put NATO weapons there, missiles there, friendly with the West. Russia went, that's not happening. We're going to attack Ukraine. Ukraine's going to come back in line with us. I think this is very similar. This is a country very close to America in the Western hemisphere, whereby Maduro is a dictator. Clearly, the Americans hate him. He is allied with Putin and she selling oil to China. But you've also got Iranians there. And I think Trump's going, ha, ha. It's similar to Ukraine. We're not happening. So I think what. We've got this shift in global power now where Trump's saying, I'm gonna start playing your game under your rules. But with the American military and the American might. I just think it is.

[B]

This is another level.

[A]

Yeah, another level.

[B]

I mean, they fucking. It was badass.

[A]

Yeah, it was badass. I think we can all agree it was pretty cool.

[B]

I saw a thing where it was like, of those three in Tier one, there's only one that's actually good at the offense. America. America. I mean, Russia tried it with the Ukraine and look where that's gone.

[A]

It's funny because China plays this really subtle game where they just go around the world offering people loans.

[B]

Their offense Seems business. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Soft power, man. Soft power. So I just think Trump is playing a different game now from what Biden played. Okay. From what Obama played, from what the neocons played. He's not really. Because people are like, oh, you said you're going to be the no war president. He's not really. They're kind of acts of war, but they're not war. It's very surgical what they did in Iran. Surgical. Can disagree with it, but it was surgical what they've done now in Venezuela, surgical what they did in Nigeria. These are all kind of like surgical moves. And so I just think on, man, this is just. This is one foot and just this is the way the world is. And so if you. If it's not how you want the world to be, what are you going to do about it? What are you going to do about it? Keir Starmer, you're going to put a statement. Cool, Cool story. What's going to happen? And so does that make sense?

[B]

Yeah, I just worry. I worry slightly. What does this allow him to then go do? Does he pick up Greenland and then Canada and then Mexico?

[A]

The Donro Doctrine? Look, I don't know. As I said, I woke up and I was happy with Maduragon and I was hopeful for the future. When I see them flexing about going for Greenland, this is a whole other issue. And if they're real and they do it, knows what that means. I mean, is what's Europe gonna do? You shouldn't do that. You've been naughty. Like, they're gonna be angry. What they gonna do? What, What?

[B]

But that's. This is like. I think he could maybe realize now there actually is nothing anyone can do or stop me.

[A]

Sure. I think there's a big risk to that, though, in that I think what they've done with Venezuela, if they get this right when it comes to the midterms and it comes to. I think they're going to struggle in the midterms, but the next election, you know, whether it's Vance or Marco Rubio, they're going to have a chance. I think if they literally go around empire building and taking Greenland and forcing other South American countries to become part of Under America's Wing and watch, then there's a big chance that that's a good argument against them in the next election. There'll be a lot of people in the center ground who'll be like, this is a bit much for me. Kevin Newsom, you got my vote. That is a risk.

[B]

Fair point.

[A]

Yeah. That is a risk. But there's also in this world where Russia is rebuild, trying to. It's not doing a very good job, but it's trying to like rebuild its empire. And there's a potential for conflict and conflict that escalates globally. I think America trying to have the whole Western hemisphere allied and under his wing is probably what they're thinking. Seems to me, I don't know, I don't want to think about. Don't think about. That's maybe the world we're heading into. But look, the world is a weird place right now. It's a weird place, people. So look, this thing about oil, I think it can be a win, win. But I think it all comes down to what's next. I think that's the biggest question. If you get past the, okay, international laws don't mean anything and what's next? The big fear is I think we've all got Iraq, ptsd. I think you were about one when the first Iraq war happened. One or two or something.

[B]

You still rant into it, huh? You're still ranting, aren't you?

[A]

No, no, I didn't understand. Do I remember a time though? Because it was when we were in that first house. I do remember a time where I was having a bud and watching the football. You were like one and a half and I'd gone up to the toilet. I came down, I picked up my butt and I was like, oh, that's empty. Anyway, when I got another one, came back, I put you on my lap and I was like, you had beer all down you.

[B]

England.

[A]

So listen, what next? That is the big question. I wrote an article about it last night. You stick in the show notes because I can make the case for the US to support self determination of Venezuelan people. But there's like a big question on what's next. And I think I take a different position from a lot of people on this. And maybe I don't know why I do. But the big question is like, they did that press conference. We were sat there, what, waiting an hour for it to come on. Marco Rubio was there, Hegseth was there, Trump was there. And everyone was like, huh? They've got a plan. They've got no plan. They just came and said, yeah, we're going to run it now. We're going to send him Marco, whatever it was, we're going to run Venezuela now. And people like, how? How do they not have a plan? Like, this is really crazy. And I was like, I saw this completely differently.

[B]

And also a Lot of people were like, surely shouldn't you just give it to who won the last election?

[A]

True.

[B]

That was another argument.

[A]

Is that, is that the guy?

[B]

I think both.

[A]

She won the Nobel Peace Prize, right? Yeah. It's funny because there was this interview Mike Cernovich did with Tucker Carlson and he was like, as soon as she was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, he's like, I see the game of chess being played. That means we're gonna, we're gonna go into Venezuela.

[B]

But I think both the arguments are gonna make sense for what you will say next.

[A]

Well, I think where I differed, because we talked about this in the car on the way up is that they said they've got no plan. And I was like, I mean, maybe they've got no plan, but let's look at what happened. This has been a build up over time. So they built the case in public that that is a narco terrorist, like an enemy of the states. And then they started blowing up traffic in boats. Look, I don't know what the, the legal case is for that. I don't know how they proved they were narco boats, but these speedboats that seem to be apparently full of cocaine or whatever were getting targeted and blown up. And it. I definitely felt queasy about this. Yeah, what if that's a fisherman, you know? But anyway, they did that. Then they boarded two oil tankers and said, that's not leaving here. And then they started making offers to Maduro. But when you look at the actual. What happened to remove Maduro, it was surgical. I know we've had reports from the regime that 80 people died. I don't know if they've been independently verified. There were no deaths from Americans. I think one injury was reported. But when you looked at it, they were able to take out the Internet, they were able to take out the air defense, they were able to fly in. They knew exactly where Maduro was. I think they knew what pajamas he was wearing. And they were able to literally just fly and get him and go. I mean, that takes some planning. Okay. They didn't go to Congress. Congress is known as being leaky. I mean, if they've been. What was it you said about.

[B]

They had a. I, I heard something like they, they made a replica of.

[A]

His hideout, which makes sense.

[B]

Was planning for two weeks. Yeah, I mean this is designed efficiently, in, out, done.

[A]

And it could have gone so wrong. You know, helicopters could have been shot down. They could have tried to get Maduro and his guards were there and started. There was a shootout, maybe There was a shootout. I don't know. But like, it could have gone so wrong. And if it had gone wrong, American soldiers died and they hadn't got Maduro and like helicopters shot down. They'd have to come out and explain. Oh, yeah, we tried to go and kidnap Maduro last night and bring him to New York for indictment, but basically two helicopters were shot down and like, I know 50American soldiers were killed. I mean, that would have been game over. We would have been straight back looking at the Epstein files, but, but it didn't. It was so surgical and precise. They, they just went in and took him. And that takes a lot of planning. Okay. And a lot of planning. A lot of people keeping secret so it doesn't leak. I just don't think they've, like, if you say to me the options are, option A is they did all that planning but they don't have a plan for afterwards. Or option B is, oh, they've got a plan, they're just not fucking telling you it. I'm on option B. Yeah, we're going to do a press conference. What's happening? Yeah, we're going to run it. I think they know exactly what they're. In my view, I think they know exactly what they're going to do. And so then you get to, well, what are they going to do? What are the scenarios? The most positive scenario in the world is a popular, democratically elected leader who dismantles the armed drug narco groups, which disarms the regime, which restores independence to the judiciary, which allows for a free press, which drives investment into the country, and the people of Venezuela are allowed to rebuild their lives and. Or the diaspora wants to head back and go back. Okay, cool. So again, I'm no, I'm no military planner, right. But by the way, all the military planners fucked up Iraq, they fucked up Syria, they fucked up Afghanistan. Why should we trust them at all anyway? But I'm no military planner, but I can imagine that if you just went in straight away and said, this is what we're going to do. We're going to bring in the, the winner of the 2023 election. They're going to run the country. Let's go. I think you're going to head for civil war, collapse, violence. You've got to think about what do you do about the current regime, all the people who are loyal to Maduro, who have been given all parts of the state which have lined their own pockets. What do you do about the 300,000 loyalists who operate the Food distribution networks. What do you do about all that? These people are armed, they're making money off the state, they're dangerous. I think it's collapse. And so I don't think that makes sense. So for that to happen, America has to put troops on the ground, and I don't know how many people. But that essentially do. We call them peacekeeping forces. I don't know what we call them, but they have to go in stormtroopers. They have to go in and enforce and protect the democratically elected leader. You're going to head for chaos. And perhaps that, what, what, what is what they've learned from Iraq and what they've learned from Libya, and that doesn't work.

[B]

And also, once you put them in, you can't really take them out how. And so that's what they did in Iraq. Right. And the second they pull them out. Yeah, it just rebuilt again.

[A]

And so, so I'm trying to think, look, if the end state is because some people are like, oh, they're just, it's just going to be. The regime is going to continue, but under new terms with America and maybe they're going to get a bit more oral and that's done. I don't think that is the end goal that America wants. I don't think it wants another unstable regime that ultimately can just tell them to fuck off. And I think America really wants. Because you see how they try and implement democracy around the world. I think they want, I think they want the oil, but I think they, they want a successful, growing economy that has a great relationship with America so they can trade with America. They can put in their Starbucks and McDonald's. And so. And so, so then you have to think about the bridge. How do you bridge from what it is now to that? Well, I don't think your bridge is to immediately put in the democratically elected leader, because you're going to have chaos. You're going to have. I know, I don't want to say Libya because Venezuela is so different, but you got, you could have chaos. So I think you have to have a bridge. And they've hinted at this, and I think Trump wanted my opinion. If he's like, pete, what would you do?

[B]

He doesn't.

[A]

He might do.

[B]

No, it doesn't.

[A]

Okay, it doesn't. But if he did just say, I'm like, donald, hear me out here. I think you've done a really good job. I think removing Maduro, you've done a good job. But you know what? If you go and put troops on the ground. It's not going to be popular home. Every American that comes back in a coffin is going to be, it's not going to be publicly good for you. The press are going to come after you, your opposition are going to come after you. So that's not going to work. You could try and put in the democratically elected leader, but the regime are going to fight this. But what you have done is you, you've sent a warning to the regime. Oh yeah, listen fuckos, if we ever want to get one of you, we literally can just come in, pluck you out and take you away. So this is how things are going to work. Your regime can continue, but these are the reforms and this is the timetable of reform we expect. Okay, you know the threat, this is the timetable. And over time I think you can select some people who are going to go to jail and you can reform. And maybe I'm being naive.

[B]

How do you, yeah, how do you think the people of Venezuela react to this?

[A]

I think the people of Venezuela, if they are, if they see progress, they will be happy.

[B]

What's progress about keeping the same regime.

[A]

That for a period. So for example, say you, say you, there'll be an election in five years and it will be a democratic election which will be monitored by the U.S. so the regime, you can continue for five years. Okay, you can run in the election in five years. But over those five years you're going to reform, you're going to have an independent judiciary, you're going to open up the press. We're going to have to disarm. We're going to have to disarm all these loyalist groups who distribute the food. We want people to be able to afford their own food with the work they do day to day in their job.

[B]

So.

[A]

You have to have a path to democracy. You just have to have a path. So that's what I do. That's what I'd tell Don to do. I'd say you have to build the reforms. And I know some people are watching. What else are you going to do? And the thing is, if you do this, there is 17 odd trillion of oil there. You can start because American come and say, well, used to. You used to drill for like, used to, I don't know, was it like three and a half million dollars barrels a day? Three and a half million barrels a day. And I think it's down to 700,000. We can get you back to three and a half million. Okay, we can get those refined. There's money going to Come in. Yeah, you get to take a bit. But a large part of that can go into rebuilding the infrastructure of the country. That. That is, to me, the only viable plan, because boots on the ground is not going to work. Immediate removal of the regime is not going to work. The only way. The only way is a plan which is a process of reform. And also, I could be completely wrong. And literally it's just going to be the same regime now with a relationship with America that says, we get the oil, you carry on. Same shit. Could totally be that. Obviously, if that happens. They're all shitheads. The regime is shitheads. The Americans, they're all just shitheads. And this is the way the world works. And, you know, the Venezuelans starve. Yeah, I'm laughing. Not at them. I'm just like. That reality of the way the world works.

[B]

It's very true.

[A]

Yeah, but it's very like, oh, there's.

[B]

Nothing you can do about it. Oh.

[A]

Yeah, Is anything. We didn't cover here on this. Did we wanna. Did we wanna give some air time to Zara Sultana? Are we over?

[B]

She's just a retard. She compared it to someone coming to England.

[A]

Well, I mean, you can compare it. It just wouldn't happen.

[B]

It's just not a good comparison either.

[A]

No, but look, what do we know about politicians? They're all stupid, weak virtue signals. She's a. She's a socialist herself. She's a commie.

[B]

Exactly. Zero airtime needed.

[A]

One of her comrades has fallen. One of their socialist projects has collapsed.

[B]

Again.

[A]

Oh, you want to show some of the memes? Do you know what I love? Do you know what I love some of these memes. I think the Joe Rogan one was my favorite one.

[B]

I'm gonna put that up.

[A]

You're gonna put that up? Yeah. Let's just do a couple of these to let people see these memes because it's just brilliant. Train my day. Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day, Right in the middle of taking a shit. I mean, it's just the speed at which the.

[B]

Oh, the.

[A]

The Diddy one. It's okay. They took my all too. Like, if you're listening and I'm watching this, this is an image and it's P. Diddy, I think. Is he braiding the hair of Maduro? Did you say they took my order? But this one.

[D]

Hola, amigos. Joe. Soy so Presidento and Senor Donaldo J. Trumpo, your ex presidento. Senor Maduro is no longer your presidento. He kept talking shit you know, and around though. And he ultimately found out, though. Anyway, we're going to make Venezuela grande again. Mucho grande. Bigger, better than ever before. We're going to drill, baby, drill. We're going to have a big beautiful fiesta. All the tacos you want, mucho mariachi, sexy mamacitas and delicious margaritas. And President Trumpo is going to be a dj. Okay, Much is gracias, muchachos. Let's make Venezuela grande again. Aribel Venezuela amigos.

[A]

Grande again. I think the names. I love these people. We didn't show your man crush. We haven't talked enough about your man crush. Do you want to talk about you and Marco Rubio?

[B]

No, I just think he's good.

[A]

Why do you like him?

[B]

You just speak straight to the fact. Doesn't around.

[A]

He's based.

[B]

Based.

[A]

Would you.

[B]

You don't know? No. You know.

[A]

Would you vote for him? If you're American, yeah. Is he your guy?

[B]

I think so.

[A]

It's so funny. I mean, there are people who just hate the administration, but they're not.

[B]

Oh, I've got a photo. Wait, let me try finding.

[A]

They're not around. I mean, they're just badass.

[B]

Let me try to find it.

[A]

Yeah, it's like the world you want versus the world you're living in when you.

[B]

I mean, come on now.

[A]

Yeah, look at those. They're just cool. Is that. Is that taken from when the operation was. And they were just monitoring.

[B]

Monitoring it.

[A]

There's an Abarth. There's one like that with Obama from when they went and took down Osama. And there's like a video of it. I think Biden's in the room. But that's it. Them watching it. You can look how nervous the guy on the left is.

[B]

But they're serious.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, look, they're not around. Now imagine that photo with Keir Starmer, Ed Miliband, David Lammy, Yvette Cooper, Angela Rayner.

[B]

But they're all knitting.

[A]

It's just. Oh, man. Anyway, listen, give me your feedback, let me know what you think. I have written an article. It's on my sub stack. It's called Venezuela and the Violence of Doing Nothing. Put out my case. Why?

[B]

Why?

[A]

I think this was self determination. But let me know what you think. Like we can obviously say. We can talk about international law and say, you know, it's gone, we're in power gains. Now peace. Peace through. Through strength. But the what next? That's the bit I'm really interested in, like what people think is going to happen next. I'm optimistic only because I've got a lot of Venezuelan friends. And I want that country restored to glory and prosperity so people can return home, they can build a business, and we don't have malnourished kids and people sleeping on the street across the border. So I'm optimistic and hopeful. I made a lot of leaps, because if those leaps don't happen, then. Then fuck those. But anyway, listen. Love you all. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. We will see you all soon. Cheers, boy. Say goodbye.

[B]

Goodbye.

[A]

Thank you. See you soon.