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- [00:05]
A
I can't stop loving the place, even though what happened to me, it's my home. That's where I was born and bred. And you can't take the Pitcairn out of me.
- [00:29]
B
Over the past eight episodes of the Pitcairn Trials, we have crossed oceans and continents, gone from a small island police investigation to an international court case battle. We've gone from the story of one brave survivor to the challenges of rehabilitating a community. This has been a sprawling, complicated, confusing tale at times. I'm sure you've got many questions. So many of you have been sending them to me. So in this episode, we'll answer some of them. This is the Pitcairn Trials, episode nine. Your questions answered. So before we get started, let me introduce one of our producers, Louisa, who asked some of your questions. Welcome, Louisa.
- [01:16]
A
Thank you very much for having me.
- [01:17]
B
Can I start with a strange thing that many of us who made the first eight episodes experienced throughout, which was, it's such a small place, Pitcairn. And I thought, you know, not many people know the story of what happened there. Many people never have heard of it. And that was the case for many, many people. But time and time and again, and maybe you're listening, you have a story like this, in which case, do tell me. People would come out of the woodwork when I say, oh, I'm just doing this podcast about Pitcairn. And they'd say, oh, I've been there. The man who lives next door to my parents even produced a little sculpture. He went there in the 60s when he was a Merchant Navy man, and. And delivered the post and exchanged for a can of Carnation milk, a carving of a fish, which he presented to me in.
- [01:59]
A
Oh, Mad.
- [01:59]
B
The deepest, darkest corners of the north of England. Wow. Wow.
- [02:04]
A
And it's so far away. It's so difficult to get to the likelihood of that actually happening. And you knowing someone who's been there is.
- [02:10]
B
So there are these connections all over the place. So many of those. Let's get some questions.
- [02:14]
A
Yes. So obviously I didn't make this podcast with you. I was not on the team, so I'm coming at this as a listener.
- [02:20]
B
But you hate it.
- [02:20]
A
I loved it. I loved every second of it. So I'm really looking forward to being able to ask you some of these questions. Cause these are genuine, burning questions that I've had since listening to the podcast. What's the response been like for you?
- [02:31]
B
Well, it's been really good. It's been so well reviewed and so many people have got in touch. I'd get a text after someone had started on episode one saying, oh, just listening. And then people would proceed to text me after each episode with shock, as if I didn't know the story. People saying, and then this happened and I can't believe this person. It's like, yes, yes. So I have, like, been living it with a fair few people.
- [02:56]
A
Yeah. And you've been getting these questions through. So that's really nice to hear that people have got things that they'd like to follow up on or ask you about.
- [03:03]
B
Some sending too many, I would say, like eight WhatsApps in a row after an episode being like, what happened to her? I mean, also things that I just don't know, like, what happened to him? What about her? Their parents, where are they now? And it was just. I don't know. Google it.
- [03:16]
A
Well, this is one that's probably not Googleable and probably a question that lots of people have thought when listening to this. But Glenda is such an important part of this series. She really is the heart of it. How has she felt about the series since it's been released?
- [03:34]
B
She's definitely listened to, I think, most of it and I don't know if she's listened to the episode where she particularly goes into what happened to her, episode four, But I think she's pleased with it and I think she's, you know, I don't wanna speak for her, but I think she's pleased for her story to be out there. That was one of the most incredible things when I met her. Having not publicly said this to anybody outside of that court case, and we're talking about decades and decades here. She did seem like she had this genuine urge to have it on the record, this thing that happened to her out there and detailed in detail. I remember her being particularly keen on that, that, you know, she didn't want things glossing over. She wanted the full awfulness of a lot of it there, because that was the truth of the experience.
- [04:19]
A
I mean, you could really feel that in the interview. And it was really moving and quite arresting. And that's the piece of the series that I came away with. Just feeling the most kind of tender about, I suppose, is that interaction between you, between Glenda and obviously as well, Sandy Glenda's counsellor being there too. So what was that like, having a sort of almost a third person in that dynamic for you?
- [04:42]
B
She was incredible. I've never done an interview like that before. I have interviewed, like hundreds of people who have had something awful happen to them in their life. I've interviewed lots of survivors, unfortunately, of sexual abuse. I've never been in a room like that, not just because of Glenda's story, but having someone like Sandy there with her, who was just so caring about Glenda and was doing things that I could not do. Because, you know, in some of the instances, a lot of what you hear in the series might be from the first or second time that I've ever met Glenda, you know, albeit we were sitting there talking for a few hours, whereas Sandy has been through a lot of this, especially the dealing with it for so many years, and she was able to comfort her, you know, allow her the space to get those details out that Glenda wanted to say, you know, but at times struggled with. It was absolutely. Yeah, it was absolutely incredible.
- [05:35]
A
And the way that you kind of moved between the two of them especially, there was a moment where I think Glenda disassociates and Sandy steps in. Did you find it difficult from your sort of position as an interviewer to kind of navigate between those two or.
- [05:49]
B
Not really, because it was more just about what was happening there in the room. And, you know, the interviews that we recorded were hours and hours long and we would usually start after an hour or two of chatting shit, not about this and just about other bits and bobs. So by the time it got to those points, it was just quite a natural dynamic in the room. And, well, as you'll hear in the series, I sort of not involved in that almost. It's Sandy who steps in and knows how to deal with these situations. You know, it's Glen who has to sort of suffer through it all and sort of gets herself back into the story she was telling. So they've been through this loads and loads of times. It was just, I guess, unique and different.
- [06:29]
A
For me, there's quite a lot of ethical issues within the whole series, but the story more generally. How did you find working around all of those? Because a lot of the stories are quite upsetting.
- [06:42]
B
Yes, but I think that detail has to be there. And again, I hope she won't mind me saying this, but Glenda was very insistent that she wanted the detail kept in the story and not to just gloss over, oh, yes, you know, she was abused as a child and now let's get to the impact of that. She really wanted you to hear what that actually was because that is the root of all of this. And, you know, some of the particularly sort of physiological impacts that it had had on Her. You can only really understand the true awful impact if you've actually heard it. So it was quite clear to us that you have to keep in those details because, well, a. That was what Glenda wanted. And also it's most honest thing to do for the storytelling, and hopefully, in the way that lots of people have received it, people can see that it's sensitively done. It's not mawkish. We're not trying to get her to say things that she doesn't want to say. It's just going with the story that she wants to tell.
- [07:39]
A
And obviously, we left Glenda and the series really, on that really poignant moment where she was listening to that song. What was that like in the room when you were recording together?
- [07:48]
B
Amazing. It was part of a. I think we just finished a long interview and we were. She was showing me lots of photos that she would save that people had sent that were on social media about what was happening. You know, if you think. She hasn't been there since the mid-70s when she was 19, but is still so fascinated about what is happening there. So she was just going through all these videos. We were watching videos of boats, of views of the island, and then, yeah, stumbled across that, which was some of the islanders singing and, you know, immediately joined in. Yeah, it was lovely.
- [08:20]
A
And have you heard from any more survivors since the podcast has aired, or if you did, you reach out to any others in the production process?
- [08:28]
B
There were a few who we were in touch with during the production process who didn't want to take part, understandably enough. I haven't heard from any more. Pitcairn survivors have heard from quite a few people who'd been through something faintly similar, wanting to share their story, and a few people who had been or knew of that kind of thing who were trying to flag it as well. One of them also on an island, weirdly enough. So.
- [08:51]
C
Really?
- [08:52]
B
Yeah. There we go.
- [08:53]
C
Wow.
- [08:54]
A
And when did you come across this story and what sort of made you want to delve into it in the way that you have?
- [09:00]
B
Yes, because it's a weird thing. Once you, like, go through the series, you do think, why would anyone want to spend about two years thinking about all of this? Cause it's quite grim. But in answer to how I came across it, I honestly don't know. It was some kind of Wikipedia hole that I got lost in at some point and was faintly aware of it. You know, this is a story which, you know, has been reported in the past. So I think I maybe came across some Old clippings of it and knew about the meeting on the Bounty story. There's a Richard Bean play that he did about that, like a few years ago. So it's sort of in my consciousness. And then when I came to want to do something like this, it was like that was the beginning of the list of stories that I might follow up. So that's what I pursued.
- [09:44]
A
Was Glenda the first person that you reached out to in this instance, or were there other ways that you were hoping to get into it?
- [09:50]
B
I just tried to find as much about the stories I could and then set about trying to contact everybody I could. And then, helpfully, lots of people are still in touch with lots of people from that. So they, you know, would lead onto one another and you'd have, like, a really good chat with X and they'd say, oh, you should really speak to Y. And then also, even if they didn't do that, the fact that you had spoken to X meant that Y said, oh, well, if you've spoken to them, I'll speak to you as well. But there were lots of people who we didn't get to speak to, who they are listening and would like to get in touch and were involved in the story. I would like to hear from you. Some people were just really hard to track down. One person in particular, who I know doesn't want to talk about it at all. Fair enough. And hasn't done since the trial. But I think we spoke to everyone who we sort of needed to. To tell the full wild ride of it.
- [10:36]
A
Yeah. And you can really hear that in the series. You can definitely hear that. This, obviously all happened. You know, we're coming up to 20 years, more than 20 years ago. How were people remembering that? Because sometimes I struggle to remember what happened five minutes ago, let alone a few years ago.
- [10:52]
B
So you were here with me. It was quite hard. Yeah. Because as you say, you'd have these interviews with people and I'd be wanting to, in this court hearing, this person said this, and can you remember how you felt about that? And lots of people would say, oh, no. So, so many of the interviews actually run on for hours and hours and hours going over details again. Thankfully, there's lots of documentary sort of evidence and transcripts and court documents and newspaper reporting and radio reporting and TV reporting from the time. So it was quite useful to have some of that to jog people's memory. But I do remember getting to some points where I was trying to ask. I think it was one of the lawyers, what One of the Pitcairn men was wearing in court and he was like, in what world am I going to remember this? Obviously, I can't remember that, but you should say, oh, I did read somewhere that they were dressed like this. And what do you think? Anything? No, I can't remember that. I am sorry. So it is amazing what people can remember. And actually what stands out more than anything is people can remember more how they feel felt as opposed to who was sitting in that room. Did the judges have their wigs on or did they not? But some of those kind of high emotion moments. It's amazing that people are like, oh, gosh, I can completely remember that because it was so impactful.
- [12:07]
A
Did it at any point make you want to go however many miles away it is in the middle of nowhere? Did it make you want to go and visit?
- [12:17]
B
Yeah, 100%, because it is undeniably a fascinating place. And anyone who have listened to this, putting for a moment the history of abuse to one side, just the way the society works, even on a surface level, is fascinating. How the people live there, sustain themselves, how they deal with tourists, all of that, that'd be fascinating to see. And then, of course, you would want to go and try and get under a bit deeper. How are people moving on from this? We definitely heard in the series about some of the things that they've put in place, positive changes about child protection, about policing, about there being a doctor on the island and a nurse and social workers and all of that. How do they feel that's working? It might be that it's working very well. Thank you. Now. And it's going great. You know, it'd be interesting to see that. And if it wasn't as well.
- [13:05]
A
Yeah. Because I would love to hear a bit more about what life is like on the island now and how that sort of functions and works with, I guess, kind of a more modern, connected world where, you know, we can all communicate with each other pretty quickly.
- [13:19]
B
And I think I'm right in saying they've got Starlink now, so they've got sort of high speed Internet, so.
- [13:23]
A
Exactly.
- [13:25]
B
I still get the Pitcairn miscellany emailed to me, still subscribing to that, so every month I can go flick through a PDF about who's coming and who's going. So. But, yeah, how they're increasingly interacting with the modern world would be interesting to know as well, because, you know, when we were talking to Glenda about her growing up there, it was all about film reels. Being shipped over, them doing movie night. You know, it's completely different to that now.
- [13:45]
C
Yeah.
- [13:46]
A
And there is something about. I guess they might see it as a privilege to not be as accessible as everybody else is.
- [13:52]
B
You know, that's sort of the point in living there, I guess, especially people who've moved there who didn't grow up there. I assume that's part of the attraction, that you're going somewhere which is completely isolated, although in practice now, Internet connectivity is there. And then, as we heard a bit in the series, semi regularly, there are boatloads of American tourists or whatever dropping anchor offshore and wanting a chat.
- [14:12]
A
Yeah. Do you think that in a way that boatloads of American tourists or any kind of tourists are welcome on the island in those days, that they're there? Do you feel like you would be welcome in the same way? Cause it's really interesting hearing from Rhiannon about her experience working as a photographer there for three months in 2015.
- [14:31]
B
Yeah, I think it'll be different in that it was Rhiannon who said to me, I don't think we include in the series. She did say, which completely rings true when you then consider all the testimony we went through of people who visited is obviously very different if you're a man compared to a woman. And she said, you know, men would visit the island. And I said, gosh, it was absolutely fascinating. We did this. They took us out on the boat. We were fishing, or they caught this. And actually, that is some of the things which some of the men who interviewed in the series said, even if some of them identified that maybe there was a slight edge or something, especially if they were part of the investigation. So I obviously wouldn't see a side of it that Rhiannon saw. So that would also be, I guess, a worry that you'd go. And the vantage point I had, would that be the real thing that was going on there, you know, or who knows? You know, maybe it's completely changed now. I was walking down the street the other day and I passed Ben Fogle, who, if you remember, is briefly mentioned in the series because he tips up and picked Kern. I think I'm right in saying during the investigation, I don't think charges have been leveled yet, but, you know, it's an intense place to be at that time, whatever year it was. And he tipped up filming this documentary and then was immediately turned around and sent packing. I passed him in the street and I should have stopped him and asked him about it, because I literally stopped in my tracks and Went Ben. But I thought, no, too weird to say.
- [16:14]
A
You should have stopped him.
- [16:15]
B
Basically my hope, I hope that my experience wouldn't be his getting all the way there after all those flights and boat rides and then being. No, thank you. Off you go.
- [16:23]
A
So frustrating.
- [16:24]
B
Something for me and Ben to talk about.
- [16:25]
A
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. As we were talking about Pitken being purposefully isolated, what do you think the future holds for it in terms of people staying on the island? Because obviously the population isn't massive. How will it grow?
- [16:43]
B
I'm not sure. The population is definitely declining. That's just there in the numbers. There aren't school aged children living there. The population is aging. It is a difficult life to sustain from what we can glean from people we've spoken to. But, you know, it has survived over two centuries. There are people who, for all what was uncovered and what we know about what happened there, attach this element of romance to it and adventure and as you say, the allure of living somewhere completely isolated. So I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were people who would always want to go and move there, despite everything we know about it, because they might say that, you know, things have completely changed now. And it is the Pitcairn that I read about and watched films about with Marlon Brando in all those years ago.
- [17:30]
A
And you've sort of touched on it. But in your research for this series, what has changed in terms of keeping Pitkenners safe on Pickhead?
- [17:40]
B
Well, loads has changed, which the Governor told us in the series and also Rhiannon touched on a bit as well. There's certainly much better child safeguarding rules about who can have access to who. There is a proper police officer, quote unquote, stationed on the island full time. The Governor has a much clearer oversight of what's happening and I think we touched on in the series as well. They now are investing quite a lot in this idea of could it be a useful scientific base? So they've built this space where if you're visiting scientists wanting to look at some of the pristine waters there, or it's, you know, it's apparently a particularly fabulous place to look at the stars because it's so far away from everywhere. You have a place to stay, you have a place to work and do your research. So actually, can that help us sustain. And that churns around a bit more outsiders on an island as opposed to, you know, just tourists popping in every so often.
- [18:32]
A
That all sounds fascinating. It becoming more of a. A nature destination than a. Yeah, a.
- [18:38]
B
Cultural oddity and also people just going there to stay for work for a proper chunk as opposed to it being actually a lot of influencers sort of visiting. You go on YouTube, there's so many people who really go just to sort of do these long sort of adventure vlogs. And then the aforementioned cruise ships full of Americans.
- [18:55]
A
Now, I guess for us, we know that a eight part series doesn't just sit in eight parts. There's probably the equivalent on the cutting room floor. So is there anybody or anything that didn't get included in the series that you wanted to include or anything that you just didn't have time to explore, that you wanted to explore a bit more?
- [19:16]
B
Yeah, you should see the wadge of court papers, which I've still got in a folder. Just like judgments and evidence and transcripts. There's so much in the details of the stories of other victims. You know, we focused on Glenda and her store and we touched on some of the other stories, but I mean, some of them are really upsetting and powerful and different to what Glenda went through and have just as many complications but in a different way. There are sidebar stories about people who we mention in the series. Leon Salt, who was the island administrator for a long while, you know, how he came to leave that job. There was kind of a sort of messy dispute with the British, you know, which was gonna be the series at some point, but it is quite a dogleg to what happened. And then also just more details about how the place works and also some of the islander stories. There are lots of people who moved, there have moved away, were part of the trials but, you know, weren't part of that, contingent on the island, who said, you know, this is all rubbish and this shouldn't be happening, who just had really interesting ways of seeing it. And, you know, some of them still live there, which if we had more space or time, it would have been amazing to get into some of that. But, you know, who knows? Series 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, that would be amazing.
- [20:37]
A
And obviously you are an incredible journalist, Luke, so I imagine that you'll have approached, you'll have approached all of these people. Was there anybody that you didn't hear back from or that you couldn't reach, that you wished that you were able to talk to?
- [20:49]
B
So many people messaged me saying what happened to Gayle Cox, the police officer, wpc, as they said then I tried so hard to find her and track her down. Could not find any trace of her other than I think she now lives in the US A couple of people who had dealings with her, you know, around the time of the trial, after the trial, said she wants to sort of vanish from this. She doesn't want any more to do with this. I would love to hear from her, only because on the subject of things that weren't included in the series, there are so many of her faxes from her first and second stint on the island. The second stint was where, you know, the kind of worm started to open and just the details of what she went through and how she felt about certain people is all there. So I'd have loved to have picked her brain on it. But, you know, she is, she is somewhere I've seen one old photograph of her and that is it. So if out of interest you listen to this and would like to email me, please do.
- [21:48]
A
Please do, Gail, if you are listening.
- [21:50]
B
Also special mention to Peter George, who's the police officer you hear from, you know, in the first bit of the series. He is a fantastic, interesting man. He, again, I think I'm right in saying, worked for Anti Corruption Unit within the police after this. So I feel like he has got lots of stories in him. I mean, former copper's always interesting to talk to, but he particularly was such a warm and generous and kind man, still in touch with some of the victims, you know, even though he's retired and this was decades and decades ago. He genuinely cares about what happened. Yeah, he's great. So maybe, yeah, there's more to chat to him about, surely, going back to.
- [22:31]
A
The start when I brought up Glenda. That's my standout moment of the whole eight episodes, the whole series. But, Luke, what's yours? What has been the thing that's really kind of come through for you?
- [22:41]
B
Can I give you a rubbish answer?
- [22:43]
A
Go on, please do.
- [22:44]
B
Mine is also Glenda, such a powerful story and storyteller and what she went through and how she tells it is, I think, so moving. And I said before, I think she's like the most affecting person, the most affecting interview I've ever done, I would say, as a coder to that. I also found really interesting the faxes. Yeah, I know that sounds awful, but there was just such a mountain of paper. And once you've been through it all and seen the panic and stress and there's only a whiff of it in the series of all these Foreign Office officials and people in the High Commission stressing about what is happening, why is this happening? Have we prepared this? Who is that? Why is this person getting involved? You could just really feel that level of bureaucratic tension, which I thought was really entertaining to take the edge off everything. Faxes, faxes.
- [23:42]
A
And it really does kind of exemplify that feeling of just being completely on your own there. Just waiting on a fax to come through.
- [23:49]
B
Exactly. You know, and what great fax noises we have in the series as well. See, it's all worthwhile.
- [23:54]
A
Brilliant. Brilliant.
- [24:00]
B
Thank you for listening to the Pitcairn Trials. It's an audio Always production presented by me, Luke Jones. This episode was produced by Louisa Adams. Sound design is by Craig Edmondson and the executive producer is Ailsa Rochester. If you have been affected by anything that you've heard in this story, there are links to organizations that might be able to offer help in the show page. If you have enjoyed the Pitcairn Trials, there are plenty more podcasts out there which have been made by the same team. Titles like Carrie J Does not exist inside McKamey Manor. Answers for Claudia and head number seven all are available. Wherever you get your podcast from, we will leave you with a clip from Head Number seven. A quick warning. The following does contain discussion of human remains.
- [24:53]
D
Package has been shipped. Reference Head number seven.
- [25:02]
C
For most people, it started with a letter.
- [25:05]
D
On Thursday, I got a Federal Express envelope from Harvard Medical School.
- [25:11]
C
But really, the letter is the end of this story. Because the story starts with an online order.
- [25:25]
D
Package has been shipped. Reference Brains.
- [25:29]
B
Brains.
- [25:31]
A
She's going to the post office and mailing things out, writing these memos, like $1,000.
- [25:37]
D
Head number seven is my mom's face on some creepy doll in someone's house. Is is my father's, you know, skin a lampshade.
- [25:49]
C
It is a story of a group of people with a niche and profitable special interest.
- [25:55]
B
There are anarchist types, the antiques types, the taxidermy types, the true crime lot, the medical history lot, artists, chiropractors, funeral types, the people who believe they're witches.
- [26:07]
C
I'm Professor Terry King, a geneticist who specializes in ancient and forensic DNA, and this is episode one of Head Number seven, An Anatomical Gift. What happens after you die is a big religious, philosophical, metaphysical. But there's one bit that most of us probably want a definitive answer to before we die. What will happen to my body after I'm gone? This is a story of when that important decision made in life is not respected in death.
- [26:53]
E
So she said, I want to donate my body because I'm a medical doctor and I want to help students to learn. So we filled out the forms. I went to the anatomical gift program they call it at Harvard.
- [27:07]
F
And then I called the number, and they said, we're sorry to say your husband's name is on the list.
- [27:13]
E
So it's possible that there are people in England or anywhere that have my wife's body parts.
- [27:19]
D
I wasn't terribly surprised that something like this happened. I was surprised that it had happened at Harvard.
- [27:26]
C
In the US around 20,000 people a year donate their body to science. The simplest way to do that is to contact a local medical school. And perhaps one of the most prestigious of those would be Harvard.
- [27:46]
D
Big guy, Very New York, very Manhattan. He had a huge head. I know that sounds bizarre, but he literally had a really big head. For like, a gazillion years, he was working undercover in Central park in a program called Anti Crime.
- [28:05]
C
Jenny Dunkley's husband, Barry, died in 2018 of cancer. Barry was a police officer working in the NYPD for many years.
- [28:13]
D
So they would go and just. They would work in their jeans and sweatshirts and stuff and pretend to be buns, and they would work preventing crime in Central Park. And sometimes he would need to be in uniform to cover for somebody else. One day, he was covering for someone in uniform at the Central Park Zoo, and he felt something on the top of his head, and he reached up to grab it. It was an elephant. Literally had reached through the bars and taken his hat.
- [28:40]
A
Yeah, through the bar.
- [28:41]
D
And. And he tried to.
- [28:42]
B
And.
- [28:42]
D
And the elephant took his hat, put it in his mouth, and chewed it up and spit out his hat device. The hat device is the little mental metal shield on it. And stomped on it. I still have the hat device.
- [28:55]
C
So he's like.
- [28:55]
D
He had just gotten a new hat, which they had a special order. He walks into the precinct, he puts the hat dev. Sergeant's desk. And says, I need another hat. And the. The sergeant was like, what are you talking about? You need another hat? We just ordered you one. And he said, the elephant ate my hat. Well, after he passed, I bought him a. A bench, a plaque. It's on Central park south, and it's facing the zoo, and it says, the elephant ate my hat and loving memory.
- [29:31]
C
When Barry was diagnosed with cancer, the decision for both him and Jenny to sign up as donors felt like an easy one.
- [29:39]
D
The first day you enter medical school, you get a cadaver, there's a ceremony. It's really respectful. You know their name, you know about them. And then for the next year, you literally take them apart. You learn more in that first year from that body, that donated body, than you will probably for the rest of Your career in medicine. He had one form of cancer which he battled and came across fine. And then he got diagnosed with a different type of cancer which was terminal. We caught it early, so he had much more time than we thought he was going to have. But through the process, we knew he was going to die and was like, let's donate our bodies. So we filled out the forms and you know, hey, he got into Harvard, right? So we did it at the same time. And it was, it was kind of a no brainer. So it wasn't necessarily that it was altruistic. It was the right thing to do. It took very little decision making process at all. So that's why we did it. And then when his body passed, Harvard was exquisitely gentle. They kind of took over and took.
- [31:07]
C
Care of everything, but Harvard hadn't taken care of everything.
- [31:12]
G
A gruesome story out of Massachusetts.
- [31:15]
C
That's TV news station NBC New York in June 2023.
- [31:19]
D
I heard about it on the news on a Wednesday. I went, that's interesting. On Thursday, I got a Federal Express envelope from Harvard Medical School. And I was pretty sure I knew what it was going to say, but I didn't open it. I opened it first thing on Friday morning and it said, the one line that that comes up is, at this time we cannot rule out the potential that Barry's remains may have been impacted. Federal authorities will continue to investigate and as additional information emerges, we will be in touch with you.
- [31:58]
G
The manager of the morgue at Harvard Medical School is accused of stealing human body parts from cadavers and then selling them.
- [32:06]
F
They said, we're going to send out letters to the families that may have been affected. And I'm like, I really was relieved. I was like, okay, that, that couldn't be me. And then I did the math and I went, oh my God. Oh my God.
- [32:22]
G
And these are cadavers donated for medical research.
- [32:25]
E
Your wife may have been impacted by our head of the morgue fellow by the name of Cedric Lodge. He's been dismissed. He's been charged with crime.
- [32:45]
A
What do you have to say about these charges?
- [32:46]
G
Former Harvard morgue manager Cedric Lodge, silent as reporters ask about the shocking charges.
- [32:53]
E
And what did he do? He allowed collectors of bodies, parts from all over the country into the basement of the Harvard Medical School at night.
- [33:05]
C
The man running Harvard Medical School mortuary was accused of selling parts of the bodies donated to science on the Internet for vast sums of money.
- [33:18]
B
You can listen to the entire series of head number seven wherever you get your podcasts.