11:00 A.M. with Isa Briones, Gerran Howell, Nina Ruscio and Matt Callahan

Summary

The Pitt Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode: 11:00 A.M. with Isa Briones, Gerran Howell, Nina Ruscio and Matt Callahan
Release Date: February 6, 2026
Hosts: Dr. Alok Patel, Hunter Harris
Guests: Isa Briones, Gerran Howell, Nina Ruscio, Matt Callahan

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Main Theme

This episode of The Pitt Podcast serves as a deep dive into episode five (set at 11:00 A.M.) of HBO Max’s hospital drama series “The Pitt.” Hosts Dr. Alok Patel and Hunter Harris break down key plotlines from the show, discuss their real-life medical and ethical implications, and offer behind-the-scenes insights. The conversation features cast members Isa Briones (Trinity Santos) and Gerran Howell (Dennis Whitaker), as well as production designer Nina Ruscio and set decorator Matt Callahan discussing the intricacies of set creation and character development.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Episode 5 Highlights: Humor, Body Horror, and Realism

• The hosts note this is the funniest yet most bodily-function-focused episode.
• Body humor and medical procedures are depicted with realistic detail and dark comedy.

Notable Segment:
[01:14] Dr. Patel: “Another week has passed. Hunter, episode 5, 11am, I have to tell you, I think this might for me be the funniest episode. The amount of one liners and jokes and like, just comical moments catches up.”
[02:29] Hunter Harris: “It's a lot of body humor this episode.”

2. Medical Cases: Ethical and Systemic Challenges

A) Necrotizing Fasciitis & Job Security

• A server with necrotizing fasciitis (“flesh-eating bacteria”) worries about losing her job while hospitalized.
• Dr. Michael Rabinovich’s intervention on her behalf highlights the intersection of health and employment in America.

Key Quote:
[03:11] Dr. Michael Rabinovich: “If you fire her, she will sue you, and I will testify on her behalf.”

B) Prisoner-Patient Dilemma

• A patient in prison is brought in handcuffed, exposing tensions between correctional protocol and medical care.
• The situation prompts a discussion on patient dignity for vulnerable populations.

Key Insight: [04:35] Hunter Harris: “For me, it was, like, really about dignity and treating a patient with care, no matter where they've come from.”

C) Insurance Barriers and Case Management

• GoFundMe and care cost issues arise for a character named Orlando Diaz.
• Joy, a character, strategizes to transfer him to a cheaper hospital floor (from ICU to Med Surg).

Explanation:
[06:05] Dr. Patel: “This is a conversation that happens all the time in hospitals when we're trying to cut costs...doctors get blamed for [high bills] all the time.”

3. Staff Dynamics & Flirtation

• Flirtations and gossip between staff, case manager Noelle, and Dr. Rabinovich provide levity.
• The show highlights how personal and professional boundaries blur in the high-pressure ER environment.

4. Exposure to Infectious Disease

• Dr. Ogilvy is exposed to tuberculosis (TB) after treating an unhoused woman, leading to practical medical discussions and a lesson in “egophony,” a lung exam trick.

Educational Moment:
[10:06] Dr. Patel: “If you have fluid or some type of mass in your lungs and you say E, the speed of that sound will change...it's called egophony.”

5. Charting, AI, and Burnout

• Dr. Santos is offered AI tools for faster charting.
• Dr. Rabinovich voices concern about AI: tech meant to improve efficiency used instead to overwork staff without extra pay.

Key Quote:
[11:30] Dr. Michael Rabinovich: “AI will make doctors more efficient, but hospitals will expect us to treat more patients without any extra pay, of course, all the while eliminating staff positions...”

6. Emotional Climax

• The episode ends on a somber note with Langdon finding Louie without a heartbeat; ER staff immediately leap into action.

Memorable Moment:
[12:51] Dr. Patel: “Louie, wake up.”

7. Cast Interviews: Relationship Dynamics & Character Growth

A) Santos & Whitaker

• The actors discuss the “odd couple” dynamic, comparing their relationship to siblings: they bicker but deeply care for and influence each other.
• Whitaker’s growth from insecure intern to a more confident doctor and teacher is explored.

Key Quotes:

• [16:18] Isa Briones: “They’re not ready to admit how much they maybe need each other...they’re kind of bonded a little bit.”
• [17:27] Issa Briones: “It’s cool to see him without all that fear and insecurity...I think he’s really come into his own.”

B) Medical Instinct and Humility

• Santos’s clinical “gut” is both her strength and potential blind spot; the importance of balancing intuition with checking biases is discussed.
• The conversation touches on “humbling” experiences in learning medicine.

Key Quote:
[19:08] Gerran Howell: “Sometimes you’re right on the money and your gut is so right, but sometimes it’s your baggage coming through...there’s a very fine balance.”

C) Physical & Emotional Toughness

• Whitaker’s softer background and Santos’s tougher persona are seen as complementary, each learning from the other.

Key Insights:
[21:44] Issa Briones: “I think he needs more of Santos, and I think Santos maybe needs a little bit more Whitaker in different ways. Yin and yang...”

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8. Production Deep-Dive: Designing and Building The Pitt Set

Guests: Nina Ruscio (Production Designer), Matt Callahan (Set Decorator)

The Creation Process

• The production designers built the set before the script was finished–the writers tailored scripts to the set.
• Immersive, historically-rooted design reflects Pittsburgh architecture, with columns, marble, and transparency.

Behind-the-Scenes:
[26:17] Nina Ruscio: “I wasn’t available to do the show at all. What [John Wells] really wanted...was a ground plan because they didn’t want to write a single word without an actual layout.”

Attention to Detail & Realism

• Lighting is integrated into the set: “689 lights...all able to be adjusted.”
• Real medical equipment, flyers, and even “love letters” from actors to the set team for creating such an immersive environment.

Memorable Moment:
[32:16] Nina Ruscio: “If anyone opens a drawer...moves a piece of equipment...it’s also seen. And so all of that is fleshed out with a level of medical accuracy...as if it’s featured.”

Actor Engagement

• Actors personalize spaces, adding authenticity (“I work here”) and ownership—e.g., Catherine, who plays Dana, bringing her real family photos.

Sourcing Props

• Described as “treasure hunting”—auctions, suppliers, and prop houses across the country supplied the massive number of authentic items.

Key Quote:
[35:01] Matt Callahan: “We go to auctions, we go to prop houses, we do whatever we can...you know, companies like McKesson who sell medical stuff to hospitals.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Patient Advocacy:
  • [03:11] Dr. Michael Rabinovich: “If you fire her, she will sue you, and I will testify on her behalf.”
• On ER Team Spirit:
  • [13:12] Dr. Patel: “A little nod to nurse Perla because Dr. Robbie immediately turns and he's like, ‘Hey, this is a code...’ and Perla is already running.”
• On AI & Physician Burnout:
  • [11:30] Dr. Rabinovich: “Sure, AI will make doctors more efficient, but hospitals will expect us to treat more patients without any extra pay...”
• On Set Authenticity:
  • [32:16] Nina Ruscio: “It’s very important for us that we don’t tell a story that feels unrealistic on any level, visually.”

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Important Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:14: Episode tone and comic sensibility
• 03:11: Dr. Robbie’s “boss move” defending a patient
• 04:35: Discussion on dignity for prisoner patients
• 06:05: Hospital cost/insurance realities explained
• 10:06: Egophony and TB exposure lesson
• 11:30: AI in healthcare—promise and perils
• 12:51: Emotional code scene with Louie
• 15:30–23:27: Cast discussion on dynamics, growth, and character relationships
• 26:17–39:17: Set design—conception, sourcing, authenticity

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Tone and Language

The episode mixes earnest, compassionate discussion of medical and ethical issues with dry humor, behind-the-scenes geekery, and relatable banter. Both the cast and crew offer self-deprecating, insightful commentary, giving listeners/show viewers an insider’s perspective laced with humanity and wit.

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Conclusion

This episode blends compelling medical drama analysis, nuanced character exploration, and fascinating set-production insights. With input from core cast and creators, it reveals how “The Pitt” achieves its signature realism—both in story and environment—while balancing the humor, heartbreak, and high stakes of ER life.

Transcript

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[Dr. Lok Patel]

Okay, deep breath in.

[Matt Callahan]

Blow it out real hard.

[Nina Ruscio]

You haven't heard enough already.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

I need to check for wheezing with forced exhalation. Cough is killing me. You smoke, Mrs. Yardley? Yeah, but I haven't been able to.

[Matt Callahan]

For a couple days because of this cough.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

You ever consider quitting?

[Nina Ruscio]

You ever considered minding your own business?

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Welcome to the Pit Podcast, the official companion to the Pit on HBO Max. I'm Dr. Lok Patel, physician, journalist, storyteller, and everything in between.

[Hunter Harris]

And I'm Hunter Harris, a screenwriter and cultural critic.

[Nina Ruscio]

Today we're talking about episode five of.

[Hunter Harris]

The Pit, which takes place at 11am and we're going to hear from Issa Briones, who plays Trinity Santos and Garen Howell, who plays Dennis Whitaker.

[Garen Howell]

You know how Mel gets knocked off of her chair by that one patient? Originally, I was supposed to be in the background of that scene and I was like, you need to take me out of the background because if I saw someone attack Mel, I would literally.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Charge after him and kill him.

[Garen Howell]

Like, I can't be there. That man is getting punched.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Today's shift starts now. Another week has passed. Hunter episode 5, 11am I have to tell you, I think this might for me be the funniest episode. The amount of one liners and jokes and like, just comical moments catches up.

[Hunter Harris]

It's a lot of body humor this episode. There's a lot of body humor, I'll say that. Okay, you're going to have to explain this one to me because we have a patient who has necrotic fasciitis.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Am I saying that correctly? You can just call it neck fash, you can call it flesh eating bacteria, but you're thinking of necrotizing fasciitis. Awful. Nightmare situation.

[Hunter Harris]

Yeah. So a woman comes in with that after being on her feet all day as a server, and it's kind of like one of the more distressing things I've seen on the show so far. Should we take a look?

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Second IVs in.

[Garen Howell]

Well, I'm not overreacting.

[Volvo Narrator 2]

My body's overreacting.

[Hunter Harris]

Please, please don't fire me. I.

[Dr. Michael Rabinovich]

This is Dr. Michael Rabinovich. I am the Chief of Emergency Medicine at ptmc. If you fire her, she will sue you, and I will testify on her behalf.

[Matt Callahan]

Okay?

[Dr. Michael Rabinovich]

Don't worry about it. We got you.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

That was so boss. That was such a boss move, period.

[Hunter Harris]

Like, end of discussion. That was. I love Dr. Robbie. Like, we all needed Dr. Robbie.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

I, like, kind of want to fight that patient's boss, but also, like, very realistic situation. It sucks. Like, there are people who go to the hospital, maybe you have a long wait, maybe you unexpectedly have to get a procedure, and they're worried about their jobs. This is America.

[Hunter Harris]

It's a big episode for, like, some of these conflicts with people who are patients and how they relate to the, like, outside world. I want to say, because there's a patient who comes in in a really bad way who is in prison, and the handlers don't want to take off the handcuffs as he's literally in the trauma room.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

I don't want to act like I understand the dynamic of being a corrections officer or, you know, police, prison guard, whatever, and having an inmate come to the hospital. But I understand the protocol. I get it. The ER is trying to follow patient care. Like, that kind of tension happens. When this gentleman who came in who had the altercation, I was like, what is the lesson that we as viewers are going to learn from this case? Because, you know, in this show, every patient case, like, teaches us something about life, about medicine, about a character dynamic. And with this one, I'm like, what are we going to learn?

[Hunter Harris]

Well, for me, it was, like, really about dignity and treating a patient with care, no matter where they've come from. But we can get into more of that later, because I need to talk about Louis. So back to Dr. Langdon. There's a big moment where Louis is prescribed more Librium because his hand is shaking, and Dr. Whitaker rushes to put his alcohol in the order. Given the history between Louis and Dr. Langdon and pills.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Let's get Louis 50 milligrams of Librium.

[Issa Briones]

I'll put in the order.

[Nina Ruscio]

I will get it from the PDF.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

I feel like everyone in the ER from what we've gathered, knows what Langdon went through, even more so than I even realized. Like, everyone knows Whitaker.

[Hunter Harris]

Seems like he immediately feels guilty. Like, immediately feels like, I wish I hadn't said that, or it just kind of slipped out, which is. It's like, a little. It's sad to watch. But we also go back to Orlando. Diaz and his family were trying to figure out how to provide care. His daughter tried to make the GoFundMe that he was very against. But who has a solution But Joy.

[Nina Ruscio]

He has to stay here to get better, right?

[Volvo Narrator]

Yes.

[Hunter Harris]

No.

[Nina Ruscio]

Excuse me?

[Garen Howell]

I mean, not necessarily.

[Nina Ruscio]

Couldn't we just admit him to Med.

[Garen Howell]

Surg instead of icu?

[Nina Ruscio]

Wouldn't that be a lot cheaper? Med Surg won't accept him with an insulin drip. Usually true. But let me talk to the charge nurse upstairs, and I'll. I'll see what she says.

[Hunter Harris]

Thank you.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

I love that Joy's having this moment. Like, think about the General Hospital floor as Med Surg medical and surgery, and then the ICU as intensive care. And there are situations when patients need to be in the icu, either because they're acutely ill, but they might need a higher level of nursing staffing. But the ICU obviously costs more money, and there are situations. And you can talk to the team in Med Surg. You can talk to the attendings. You can talk to the charge nurse and look to see, can we instead get this patient on the floor? This is a conversation that happens all the time in hospitals when we're trying to cut costs. We're like, does this patient actually need to be in the ICU for their night? Like, can we move them to the floor? Because the reality is, is not every physician or nurse understands the. The entire billing reimbursement process and what resources are available. We get blamed for it. I'll tell you that all day long. If somebody has a hospital bill that's really high or they have what we call a surprise medical bill, meaning they thought their bill was gonna be covered by their insurance when it was out of network. They didn't realize all these things. Like, doctors get blamed for it all the time.

[Hunter Harris]

But Noelle, the patient care. What would you call that? Actually, what would you call her job?

[Dr. Lok Patel]

She is a case manager.

[Hunter Harris]

Case manager. Okay. So Noelle, the case manager, says, actually, that's a pretty good idea. And then with Noelle, a little spark's playing between her and Dr. Robbie.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Listen, yeah.

[Nina Ruscio]

I came down for a consult and to persuade Ahmad to start a new Betting board?

[Dr. Michael Rabinovich]

Why is the Westbridge board full already?

[Nina Ruscio]

I was gonna ask him to start one about you and your midlife crisis trip. I give it four weeks. Seven tops.

[Dr. Michael Rabinovich]

Eve's little face.

[Nina Ruscio]

Not enough face. Just faggots.

[Matt Callahan]

Thanks.

[Nina Ruscio]

Based on my experience, you're a seven week edge kind of guy.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Noelle, like, she knows what she's doing.

[Hunter Harris]

She does. They definitely have a lot of flirtation. What I love about this episode too, is that we get a bit into, like, how they are outside of the hospital because she later says to Dana, like, he can't sleep without the TV on. Like, I don't trust this. Blah, blah, blah. We have to talk about Ogilvy, who has a pretty big episode this week. He is treating an unhoused woman who has a cough, trouble breathing, and she kind of has an attitude with him, which is a little bit funny to see him, like, getting so nervous. But she ends up having tb and so now he has to get TB testing. And Santos, a little bit, is not smug about it, but I don't know, I sense a little attitude.

[Garen Howell]

Call infection control and public health. And now you get to sign in as a patient and get your blood drawn for a quantavir and gold.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

It's too soon to be positive.

[Garen Howell]

Yeah, but you were exposed. You need a baseline test and then again in eight weeks to see if you convert.

[Nina Ruscio]

And if I do, then meds every.

[Garen Howell]

Day for three or four months with regular blood tests to check for toxicity.

[Hunter Harris]

Jesus.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

She. She's still going through something. We talked about this in the last episode. She does normalize it, though, in a. I don't want to say a helpful way. I mean, she's like, devoid of empathy towards Ogilvie and the fact that he may have TB exposure. You can tell he's scared. And she's like, dude, relax. Like, we're all exposed to it. It's a big deal. You know, if you are working in healthcare and you think you may have tb. This is exactly why we get screened for TB every single year.

[Hunter Harris]

Oh, wow.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

We run into it and I have colleagues who have had to go on medication because they tested positive for tb. I had one colleague who needed surgery because he had tb, and they're like, you got it somewhere in the hospital and it decided to become a serious infection in your body. So it's a common scenario. They highlight here one very, very nerdy detail. Again, the nerdy details in this show I live for is there's a part when Ogilvy's listening to her lungs and he goes, say E. And she's like, e. This is so cool. But if you have fluid or some type of mass in your lungs and you say E, the speed of that sound will change as it's going through the consolidation, and somebody listening to you will hear ah instead of E. Isn't that cool?

[Hunter Harris]

Wow.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

It's called egophony. It's like an old school physical exam trick. And I know that some ER consultant was like, ogilvy is a gunner, and he would absolutely be doing this on a lung exam.

[Hunter Harris]

Interesting. Okay, good to know.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Well, you're also like, shut up, Alok.

[Hunter Harris]

No, no. I mean, Ogilvy might have tb, but he definitely has diarrhea on him. He performs a bowel disimpaction for an elderly patient who hasn't had a bowel movement in several days. And I love that Whitaker is being very patient with Ogilvy, telling him how to. How to clear the guts.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

I know that you're very fascinated by this procedure, Hunter. You can also call it a digital evacuation, which almost sounds like. Like a DJ hit or something. Digital evacuation? Yeah.

[Hunter Harris]

It sounds like a techno club.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

I want to know. I know we talked to, like, people who make props in the show. Like, I want to know what exactly they use to get that consistency.

[Hunter Harris]

Wow. And I would never have thought about that.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

I mean, the consistency is a little soft. So I was like, you know, I don't know if we're going like melted chocolate.

[Hunter Harris]

We need to move on. Okay, update on Santos and her charting, which she will never be quiet about, is Dr. Alhashmi suggests maybe she tries, like, some AI tools to help the charting go a little bit quicker.

[Nina Ruscio]

And you'll rarely have to stay overtime to complete charts.

[Garen Howell]

Yeah.

[Hunter Harris]

Okay.

[Matt Callahan]

Yeah.

[Garen Howell]

I'm usually here at least a couple hours after every shift trying to catch up.

[Dr. Michael Rabinovich]

So, sure, AI will make doctors more efficient, but hospitals will expect us to treat more patients without any extra pay, of course, all the while eliminating staff positions for attending and residency.

[Volvo Narrator 2]

Oh, Dr. Rabi, I am not an.

[Nina Ruscio]

Advocate for erasing my own profession, but I am advocating for getting to spend more time with my son.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

She mentions that. She mentions the generative AI the thing that I really like is then all of a sudden, Dr. Ravi jumps in there and he kind of makes this snide comment again, kind of criticizing AI but he makes a very, very important quick point when he's like, yeah, and hospitals are going to use these tools to get us to see more patients by removing all this work that we do, but not pay us a single extra dollar. Which is a very valid argument and kind of an ongoing concern about the misuse of these tools. They'll be like, hey, now we can speed up your charting time. We can reduce your administrative burden. So now you can see more patients. The system can make more money. We will burn you out even more, and we will not pay you an extra dollar. That's essentially what Dr. Ravi's sentiment is. And Dr. Alhashimi is like, whoa, yeah, she's a little.

[Hunter Harris]

Not too much. Okay. It's just a suggestion. But she's still really on Santos about the charting. And the episode ends in maybe the saddest conclusion I've seen this season so far, which is Langdon finds Louie without a heartbeat.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Louie, wake up.

[Dr. Michael Rabinovich]

I'm not getting the carotid. I got the airway. Hey, Perla, crash card ination tray, please.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

You know, the. The episode ends on this somber note, but I have to give a. A little nod to nurse Perla Because Dr. Robbie immediately turns and he's like, hey, this is a code. I need the crash cart. And Perla is already running. Like, I noticed that in the episode. Like, the minute he said Perla, she was already, like, sprinting at the door. I'm like, dang, there's a lot of love for Louie Hunter. Can we. Can we play a quick, quick game? A quick what if game?

[Nina Ruscio]

Let's do it.

[Hunter Harris]

Let's do it.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

I don't want it to be morbid. We're trying to be fun here. Okay, which would you rather do, a digital evacuation or a fecal disinfection or get cellulitis?

[Nina Ruscio]

Digital.

[Volvo Narrator]

I'm not.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

I'm not saying get evacuation. You would rather.

[Hunter Harris]

Okay, wait, get it how? Like.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

No, I'm just saying. Here's the thing. I just. I'm saying cellulitis, and it probably will not turn into neck fashion.

[Nina Ruscio]

Probably won't.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Might just be cellulitis, and it's fine. But after seeing this episode, you might think cellulitis is going to turn into something more serious. That's what I'm just saying. Like, you got the gambling case of cellulitis, either no big deal or serious, or you are doing a fecal dis. Impaction. Which would you rather?

[Hunter Harris]

Fecal disinfection. Whether I'm getting it, whether I'm giving it totally. The cellulitis scared me good.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

I had no notes. I'm with you. That means that the PSA worked. Everyone should choose. Everyone should choose. Removing stool with your finger over getting any type of infection.

[Hunter Harris]

I mean, I pick up my Dog's poop every day. That feels easy to me. Like, the alternative sounds much worse.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Look at that. Look at everyone having a little bit more awareness about how to manage skin infections and what the warning signs are. Thank you, medical writers of the Pit.

[Hunter Harris]

Now we're gonna head inside the Pit and talk to Issa Briones, who plays Dr. Santos, and Garen Howell, who plays Dennis Whitaker.

[Garen Howell]

Jesus Christ. I'm turning. Sorry.

[Nina Ruscio]

Did I do something wrong?

[Garen Howell]

Besides interrupting me?

[Hunter Harris]

Probably.

[Nina Ruscio]

Then I apologize. I know that second year of residency can be stressful, so if there's anything I can do to help you, like stop talking.

[Garen Howell]

That's a great idea.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Yeah.

[Hunter Harris]

So Santos and Whitaker have been living together this season. Can you talk about your dynamic between the two of you? And sometimes there's friction, sometimes you guys butt heads, but it does seem like you guys are very close. Yeah.

[Garen Howell]

I think obviously in season one, she can be a little poke fun at the people that she are kind of her junior years at the week. But no, I think she can be a little mean sometimes. But I've always seen it as the way that you would act with a younger brother. And I think that's why when she finds out that he does not have a home, she kind of immediately extends help because I think there is a level of care there. So I think in the 10 months since the first episode, they've kind of gotten to develop that friendship a little bit. I think there's definitely still some friction for sure.

[Issa Briones]

And it's like they're not ready to admit how much they maybe need each other without sounding too dramatic, but I think they're kind of bonded a little bit.

[Garen Howell]

Cause you're away from home.

[Nina Ruscio]

Yep.

[Garen Howell]

Santos is very lone wolf, and, like, I don't need anyone, but obviously she does. And I think those kind of vulnerabilities do eventually kind of meet up. And I think it really. I don't know, it yields a very sweet relationship that hides underneath, like, joking and poking fun.

[Nina Ruscio]

Yeah.

[Issa Briones]

They see each other in a weird way that maybe you don't expect.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

That's not too.

[Hunter Harris]

Jesus.

[Volvo Narrator]

I see.

[Nina Ruscio]

I see you.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

I hear you. Speaking of character development, so Garen, I feel like Whitaker went through this, like, level up transformation between season one and season two. We had the almost like slapstick comedy about the Scrubs getting different bodily fluids on them.

[Volvo Narrator]

Oh, yeah.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

And then the confidence just dials up into season two. And now all of a sudden, Whitaker is kind of leading the charge, teaching interns, and then catches that posterior mi, which I was like, this is a moment. How do you feel about Whittaker's growth as a doctor?

[Issa Briones]

Well, the bar was low to begin.

[Nina Ruscio]

With.

[Issa Briones]

But, yeah, I mean, it's really nice to be able to play. Ten months, I think, is gonna change anyone, but especially from the place Whittaker came from, you know, he'd have to step up, otherwise he would be fired very quickly. But, yeah, he's. He's a lot more confident now. It's cool to see him without all that fear and insecurity and being overwhelmed. I think he's really come into his own. And now he's also teaching med students, which is just another level. The management, you know, of an ER is insane. And it's just another thing that, you know, has to be done in a teaching hospital. But I think he's flourishing as much as he can in front of med students. I think you have to at least appear to be more competent than you.

[Hunter Harris]

Are, because otherwise, you know what you're doing.

[Volvo Narrator]

Yeah.

[Issa Briones]

Stand taller than you feel, because how can people possibly trust you or want to follow you? So there's a lot of that. He's flourishing so far, so it'd be cool to see the downfall.

[Matt Callahan]

Oh.

[Hunter Harris]

Oh, Jesus.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

I'm ready. The darkness is coming, apparently.

[Hunter Harris]

I wonder how do you think Santos being right about Langdon and, like, the drugs impacts how she trusts her gut moving forward when she sees patients?

[Garen Howell]

Yeah, I think with Santos, her gut is a big part of her superpower as a doctor. I think, you know, all of the different doctors have something that makes them really special, their own kind of special sauce. And I think hers is that she can really spot certain things that other people don't. She can really spot someone who's very vulnerable that may not appear that way or may not show. I mean, you see it in season one, when she's treating the person who tried to end their life. That is something that other people were not going to pick up on. And I think she's learned that she can trust her gut. And I think people like Dr. Rabi have encouraged that. But there are moments, and I've talked to many medical professionals who have said that this happens where it's sometimes you're right. You're right on the money, and your gut is so right. But sometimes it's your. Your baggage coming through and you putting something on a patient that is maybe just something that is on your mind, and you need to, like, keep in check. And there's, like, a very fine balance that you need to find there. And so with Kylie I think because we've seen her deal with a girl that she believed was being abused before and, and I think we can kind of infer that she was right on the money with that one. But that doesn't mean that every little girl that comes in is going to be that case. And so I think it's a moment of a lot of what happens this season is a humbling for her and a reminder that she is still very much learning. Being a second year resident is nowhere near being an expert. You are still in the learning process. You are still a student always. And I think that is another reminder of like, okay, it's not always going to be something that is deep seated in your trauma. Sometimes you need to just treat the patient and look at the signs that are there.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

I think Santos is also kind of a badass. If there was like a fist fight in the pit, I would be like, santos is on my team. Oh, yeah.

[Garen Howell]

No, you know how, you know how Mel gets knocked off of her chair by that one patient? Originally I was supposed to be in the background of that scene and I was like, you need to take me out of the background because if I saw someone attack Mel, I would literally.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Charge after him and tackle him.

[Garen Howell]

Like, I can't be there. That man is getting punched.

[Issa Briones]

I didn't know that you were in.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

The back and they, they were gonna.

[Nina Ruscio]

Have me in the background.

[Garen Howell]

I was like, I can't be there. I'm literally knocking that motherfucker out.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

That's what I'm saying. So. But here's what's interesting. So Whitaker has this softer background, comes from a farm, is lovingly called Huckleberry. And it almost seems like Whitaker and Santos had this yin and yang between a little bit more of a hardened exterior and then kind of the softer side. Yeah. How do you see the interaction with Santos changing Whitaker? Do you think that Whitaker has hardened up a little bit in those last 10 months?

[Issa Briones]

Absolutely. I think she's taught him a lot, just about existing in the world, in society.

[Garen Howell]

I was like, get a haircut.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Yeah, get a haircut.

[Issa Briones]

Look at him now. That's the glow up.

[Volvo Narrator]

Yeah.

[Issa Briones]

No, I think he needs more of Santos and I think Santos maybe needs a little bit more Whitaker in different ways. Yin and yang, I think, is a good way to, to put it. Really.

[Garen Howell]

You've been talking a lot about how the boundaries and all that that Whitaker learns, and I feel like that's something that she's trying to impart.

[Issa Briones]

Absolutely. Yeah. Because I think it is a balancing act in The ED like, of how much do you empathize with the patient? Do you keep them at arm's length? Do you really go all in emotionally and smother them to get to the bottom of, you know, what it is? And that sort of comes back to bite Whittaker quite a lot actually this season. So hopefully maybe Santos can see a wider angle and tell him when he's just going too far, when he's being too good.

[Garen Howell]

And those are the moments of care that really come through, are when we're not talking to each other, but when we're talking to other people. Because a lot of what happens this season is me talking to Robbie or someone else about Whitaker, being very clearly concerned about him and being like, I don't want anyone taking advantage of him. But he never. She'd never say it to him. She's like, I don't give a shit about you.

[Nina Ruscio]

Whatever.

[Garen Howell]

She's like, I don't. I care about this kid. Like, this is my brother. So it's a very. It's a sweet relationship that they've found of how they rub off on each other.

[Issa Briones]

Absolutely.

[Nina Ruscio]

Yeah.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

I think Santos Whitaker sounds like a good spin off about exploring this. Right. I appreciate you both. Thank you so much.

[Garen Howell]

Thank you. Nice to see you.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

You know, Hunter, it's awesome how many people on the show told us that they bring elements of their real personality, their life situations to their character. I was like, are you two, like, I'm losing sight of which ones are Issa and Garon versus which ones are Santos and Whitaker?

[Hunter Harris]

I think they do also have a very kind of opposite energies, which makes them really fun to play off of each other on the show, like you said. I think Issa, she seems very active, like very curious. And Garen seems more like thoughtful, ruminative maybe.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Oh, they're so fun. I really. We're so fortunate and so are you listeners and viewers that we get to hear from people and you get to see their real personalities and how they show up on screen. It's super cool.

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[Hunter Harris]

Show is literally the foundation, the set. It feels so much like a real hospital to me, although I haven't spent much time in hospital, so maybe, I.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Don'T know, your instinct is on point. We were lucky enough to visit that set, and when I walked on, I was like, oh, my gosh, this is scary accurate. And I think it just adds to the overall immersive element of the show. Super impressive.

[Hunter Harris]

Definitely. No, I. I really felt the realism. This week for outside the pit, we get to talk to the people who made this incredible set. Production designer Nina Ruscio and set decorator Matt Callahan.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Let's go. So excited to talk to both of you. I have to be honest about something. I had a true out of body, starstruck pit fan moment. Nina, when I ran into you when Hunter and I got to see the set, saw you, and I was like, she put this together with the big team, and it's incredible. So I just have to ask you, what was it like from start to finish, coming up with this idea, being inspired, and working with what I heard was a crazy timeline?

[Nina Ruscio]

Well, actually, it was kind of a ride. John Wells and Noah Wylie and Scott Gimmel. John specifically called me to see whether or not I could do the show, and I wasn't available actually to do the show at all. What he really wanted, he sort of pleaded, was a ground plan because Scott, they didn't want to write a single word without an actual layout. So I was able to offer up a holiday break on the job that I was on because I was unavailable. And so I was able to offer up this holiday break and intensively immersed myself in hospital design and very, very thoroughly invested in those few weeks and the nights and the weekends of the January that followed to be able to offer up a ground plan that they could work with. Feeling really guiltily unavailable to be able to do the job, because I love. I love John Wells, and I've worked with him on many projects before, and I thought it was such a big honor to be asked to do that because it's really quite a responsibility. At first I was really flattered, and then I realized, oh, holy moly. This is a really big response.

[Hunter Harris]

How do I make a hospital?

[Nina Ruscio]

I have to make sure that I have everything there because I have no idea what storylines they might need.

[Matt Callahan]

They wanted the set before they had the script so that they could write the script to the set.

[Hunter Harris]

Writing to a set is crazy. I've never heard of that before. Yeah.

[Nina Ruscio]

And it was the first time. It was the best.

[Matt Callahan]

It's brilliant, though.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Yeah.

[Matt Callahan]

I mean, when you think about how that's all panned out.

[Hunter Harris]

Yeah.

[Nina Ruscio]

Truly, truly prescient on their part. And at that point, I had to pass it on and then let go and then continue on the project we were on thinking I could never complete what I had now become really attached to. Because it wasn't. To me, a ground plan is not the beginning of a design. It's really the conclusion of a lot of very, very careful thought of physical choreography. And all kinds of aspects of a physical layout need to be thought through to a fare thee well really carefully.

[Matt Callahan]

But she nailed it because they didn't change a lot.

[Nina Ruscio]

They didn't change a thing. So I got back the ground plan. The job that we were on continued. But this job, the Pit extended its start date to a time when I could start and that he could continue on with me as well. So as it turned out, we just sort of swung over to this project. And at that point, the heat was on because I was given back the ground plan fully extended, imagining that everything would change. But it didn't to their needs. Because somehow I had imagined their needs, every single one of them, in the layout. And then the race was on. So we had nine and a half weeks before we started to shoot.

[Matt Callahan]

I'll just say that the layout is kind of brilliant because it allows you to move through the space in a way that is not typical of a lot of sets. You know, the way Nina and the guys designed it has an amazing flow. And you can. The camera and the actors can move through it sort of endlessly.

[Nina Ruscio]

Right. And the lighting is embedded in the design. So that's a very, very unique type of set to be physically in. We don't put lights on the ground. There's none of this equipment around us because it's designed to be able to be handheld, to be able to be shot from one end of the space to the other without stopping. There's 689 lights that are all able to be adjusted off. There's a little man behind the curtain.

[Matt Callahan]

Brian is actually manipulating it, which we found because normally, you know, on a TV show you have Set lighting and they stop and they light the setups and all that kind of stuff. We don't do any of that on this show.

[Nina Ruscio]

All of the lighting is practical, all provided by the set deck department with adjustments that were made by the gaffer electric.

[Matt Callahan]

So they took these lights that we bought and they stripped them out, put in their own LED stuff so they can control every single light, the color, temperature, the intensity. So the whole set is kind of this living system.

[Nina Ruscio]

It really is. And it's a continually capable, immersive space that's almost 23,000 square feet. It's very big because of that, because there's so much visual transparency from one side of the space to the other. You can see a foreground story, a mid ground story and a background story all at the same time. So those that love to watch the show can actually re watch the show and see the eventual storylines that are going to take place in the foreground actually playing out in the background in the mid ground. And so when we come to set, when I come to work, I normally wear scrubs, and all of the crew are required to wear scrubs. And everyone is, because there's so much reflective surface and so much transparency from one end of the set to the other, that if you happen to be caught on camera as a crew member or as me who comes in and speaks to a director for a moment, you really need to look like you fit in. And all of those background artists that are there with us and the main actors as well, need to be there almost every day. So at any one point in time, the set is populated with 100, 200 people. And on that same note, from a set deck perspective, because you can see anywhere 360 degrees, looking up, looking over, looking down, going, you know, 20,000 square feet of space. If anyone opens a drawer, if anyone opens a cupboard, if anyone moves a piece of equipment, if anything is there in the background, it's also seen. It's just as important as if it's featured. And so all of that is fleshed out with a level of medical accuracy that we've taken upon ourselves to be really, really, really responsible for. Matt did an amazing job of outfitting this space. It's really beyond the whole team of.

[Matt Callahan]

People that worked with me, I have to say that.

[Nina Ruscio]

Yeah, and me as well. You know, 100 people or more that we actually are partners with, that we create this environment to be so immersive. And it's very important for us that we don't tell a story that feels at all Unrealistic on any level, visually.

[Hunter Harris]

Wow. Can you talk a little bit about like the architectural details in the hospital, like the marble? It has such a sense of history that I think is really cool.

[Nina Ruscio]

Oh, I love that you asked that question.

[Hunter Harris]

Question.

[Nina Ruscio]

So I wanted to incorporate into the design these architectural elements that did two things for the space. One gave you this feeling that the hospital emergency department was underground, that it was the pit. The pit is a double entendre for being in a basement, essentially. So the columns are both a reflection of the hundred year old aspect of the hospital. The hospital is a hundred year old space in my imagination. And the historical elements that are woven throughout that weren't covered over by drywall or renovation are there to sort of tell the story that we're in Pittsburgh and the architecture in Pittsburgh is very uniquely, almost Pittsburgh European. Like it's European. It's more European than New York or Chicago. And wanting to imbue the physical space with a sense of place was my reasoning for weaving in, peppering in these little architectural kisses in the body main that made you feel as if the physical space had history within, making it normal and understandable and approachable and accessible as a common hospital that everyone could identify with.

[Matt Callahan]

It's tied into some elements of the hospital in Pittsburgh where we shoot Allegheny General. Yeah, especially when you're in the waiting room. The yellow brick, which is on the exterior of the hospital in Pittsburgh, the columns, the marble all exist. And Nina, well, you hadn't even been to that hospital before you sort of matched that.

[Nina Ruscio]

Yeah, I've been to that because she.

[Matt Callahan]

Brought all that into the set before she'd actually been there.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Matt, I have to tell you a fun nod to the set and the decoration. I've noticed that my colleagues in healthcare who watch the show are closely watching all the set design and then comparing it to their actual jobs. And then I've now talked to patients who are in the hospital and comparing it to what they see on the pit really, really speaks to kind of.

[Nina Ruscio]

The level of detail.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

So I have to ask you, what made decorating this set fun, unique, challenging? Like, tell us about that process.

[Matt Callahan]

Well, challenging because I'd never done a full on hospital before, so there was a learning curve that we all experienced. But we love that kind of stuff because in our business, the range of things that you could be creating is vast. And I'd never done a full on hospital show. And it was exciting to do because we were going to do it in a way that's unlike other hospital shows, not about Beauty. It's about real. You know, they wanted to shoot this like a documentary. So that was a big challenge. And sourcing things was a big challenge. But the way we did it was we went to actual hospitals and looked at what they had. And then I had a team of great people that started finding stuff. And outside sources shout out to some of the prop houses in LA, like A1 Medical Heritage, props, Alpha Medical, they sort of became part of the team too. You know, I'd call people up and say, I'm looking for a blanket warmer. And somebody calls me back and says, there's a auction in Phoenix. I think we can get you one, you know, in three weeks. So it was a lot of that scavenging, reaching out to companies. Our prop master, Rick Latimede, he came through in a big way. We got beautiful gurneys from Stryker, the big medical company. We got fantastic medical carts from capsa. So we, we beg, we borrow, we steal, we go to auctions, we go to prop houses, we do whatever we can. And buying a lot of stuff from, you know, companies like McKesson who sell medical stuff to hospitals. Yeah.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Lots of treasure hunting.

[Matt Callahan]

But I mean, it's an enormous amount of stuff that we had to get, you know.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Wow.

[Nina Ruscio]

And it's something that they, that the set act department takes as their intense responsibility. They're very, very consistent about making everything as validly accurate, accurate as possible.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Yeah, we were blown away that even areas that are not necessarily featured on the show, but maybe the background are tucked in. It's still accurate. There's still like a flyer about a nursing course that you need to take or the fourth of July Pittsburgh summer barbecue for employees that's in the faculty lounge. I'm like, oh my God, like the.

[Hunter Harris]

Fridge, all that stuff.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

It's immersive.

[Nina Ruscio]

Yeah. In the beginning when we started, there was a round of love letters almost and love exchanges that were from the actors because their experience matched our intentional way of presenting to them a space where they didn't have to suspend their disbelief. So Catherine, who plays Dana, would constantly come up to me and say, I have no question about what I'm supposed to do. I know where I work, I work here, and here is a full on emergency. I don't have to do the actor task of suspending my feeling. I don't see the edge of the set wall because I work in a real emergency department. And she would say, that's because of you guys. She was such a sweet champion of us all from the get go. And she said this Is my space. I'm gonna put my pictures up here. And then she gets quite testy if anyone sits in her spot. Like you would if you felt that was yours.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Yeah.

[Nina Ruscio]

So. And people take agent. They have agency for it. There's the people that work in dispatch, which is full of monitors and notes and stuff like that. They take umbrage if someone actually moves their things around. It's quite lovely in the way that people have taken on the set. So for me, it's this pervasive experience when you watch it, that your eyes are always energized, and your eyes will always, if you're looking, lead you to imagine that there's more beyond. So when the set was up and running, to me, that's the favorite thing. Almost impossible to explain, but the kind of subtextual trick that I've played on everyone just to keep you feeling like you're constantly moving, which is the experience of being in an emergency department.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

I cannot comprehend this level of brilliance right now.

[Nina Ruscio]

Look at me.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Have a hard time. I'll get to.

[Matt Callahan]

Don't look at me.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

It's amazing.

[Hunter Harris]

This is great.

[Nina Ruscio]

We love our job.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

I am, like, almost speechless at what you were all able to create. It truly is immersive. It's incredible. We walked through a set, and I literally felt like I was in a real hospital. Incredible.

[Matt Callahan]

Oh, thank you.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Thank you so much for being here.

[Nina Ruscio]

Thank you.

[Matt Callahan]

It was a pleasure. Thank you guys for having us.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

Are you guys available to design our homes? And we do some redecorating.

[Matt Callahan]

Yeah, if you like medical equipment.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

I'm still having a hard time comprehending the creative brilliance it takes to put together that set and, like, the details that we didn't even think about. And we visited the set and looked at every corner.

[Hunter Harris]

Yeah, I. I'm so impressed with, like, every little. I mean, you have to have an incredible memory to think about, like, where every piece, every prop, every, like, little element, design, every detail goes.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

I bet some people think you could just go online or to a store and be like, I need to buy these medical supplies. But to hear Matt talk about auctions and sourcing materials from different states and calling companies, it also seems, like, stressful.

[Hunter Harris]

I think, honestly, like, the real testament to their work is how much of it feels invisible, how much of it feels truly like of the set of the scene. It doesn't feel like, you know, so produced. In some ways, it really feels like real life.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

I understand why the characters now probably get on set, the actors get on set, and they just. They're like, oh, yeah, I work in the hospital.

[Hunter Harris]

I really like that point about Catherine, like, making her little desk her own, like, her bringing in her own, like, real family photos and like, being very protective of that space. I think that's really special. And I don't think really actors get that a lot, but all of these actors go to the same set every single day, every shot. And that's so cool.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

I think our new goal needs to be to get invited to a party, Halloween party, holiday party, by, like, Nina, Matt, anyone who's involved in building these sets. I need to see that level of, like, detail.

[Hunter Harris]

Yeah.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

For a social function. Thank you for watching today's episode of the Pitt Podcast. You know where to find us every Thursday right here after the new episode drops. And share your comments, your questions. Also, shout out to all the nurses out there.

[Hunter Harris]

You can watch us on HBO Max or listen wherever you get your podcasts. The Pitt Podcast is a production of HBO Max in collaboration with prx. The executive producer of PRX is Jocelyn Gonzalez. Our managing producer is Courtney Florentine. Our editor is Lucy Perkins. Our production managers are Ebon Ochoa and Tony Carlson. Our video producer and editor is Anthony Q. Artis with assistant editor Damon Durrell Hinson. This show is engineered by Tommy Bazarian. Special thanks to Joe Carlino.

[Dr. Lok Patel]

The executive producer producer of HBO podcasts is Michael Gluckstadt. The senior producer is Allison Cohen Sirok. And the associate producer is Aaron Kelly. Technical director is Insang Huang. I'm Alok Patel.

[Hunter Harris]

And I'm Hunter Harris. We'll see you next week in the pit.

[Volvo Narrator]

When life gets unpredictable, preparation matters. In medicine, it's all about staying alert, ready for whatever comes through the door. On the road, it's no different.

[Volvo Narrator 2]

That's why Volvo designs vehicles to help.

[Volvo Narrator]

Anticipate risk, reduce harm and protect lives. The Volvo XC90's advanced safety systems inspire confident decisions wherever the road takes you.

[Volvo Narrator 2]

The Volvo XC90 for life.

[Volvo Narrator]

Proud sponsor of the Pitt Podcast. Learn [e-mail] us when life gets unpredictable, preparation matters. In medicine, it's all about staying alert, ready for whatever comes through the door. On the road, it's no different.

[Volvo Narrator 2]

That's why Volvo designs vehicles to help.

[Volvo Narrator]

Anticipate risk, reduce harm and protect lives. The Volvo XC90's advanced safety systems inspire confident decisions wherever the road takes you.

[Volvo Narrator 2]

The Volvo XC90 for life.

[Volvo Narrator]

Proud sponsor of the PIT podcast. Learn [e-mail] us.