Hunter Harris (2:21)

Today's shift starts now.

Dr. Alok Patel (2:25)

Hunter shift, technically, according to the clock, probably according to payroll, is over, but, like, kind of not really over. We see our residents still charting. We see people trying to play catch up. We've got some unfinished business. You kind of. Dr. Robbie catches Javati on her phone. There's more cases coming in. Dr. Robbie's handling Duke. Like, there's a lot happening even though people are off the clock. What's your overall take on not only what's happening this episode. But is this giving you more or less anticipation for the final episode?

Hunter Harris (2:55)

I mean, way more anticipation. I think about mid season, I started wondering, if this is a 12 hour shift, how are we going to get to 15 episodes? And I did not think about the paperwork that would be required after they've been analog for several hours. So I think it's kind of a nice little twist at the very end that everyone, including Santos, is stuck doing paperwork.

Dr. Alok Patel (3:16)

You know, there's, there's one detail this episode captures that this just felt so real. So, you know, we finished a shift in the hospital. 12 hours is up. If you have notes to finish, you have to do them. I have like a delinquency email right now from one eye hospitals because I haven't finished a note. So that's essentially why these residents are, stay. Are, are hanging out there. And it's fun. At the end when you hear them talking about the patients who have come in. You have Mel talking about the, the reenactment scenario and they're trying to remember little details like that. That's such a relatable moment.

Hunter Harris (3:46)

Yeah. Oh my gosh. I cannot imagine what's the latest you've ever stayed how many hours after your shift ended?

Dr. Alok Patel (3:51)

Oh, for charting. I mean, let's. Between you and I and our listeners and viewers, like, I'm not saying that late for charting. I'll do those at home. But for a medical emergency, we're staying. It could be three, four, five hours. Like I've stayed eight hours once because of an emergency that rolled in after my shift ended. And you just need all hands on deck. And we see that playing out in this episode, you know, with Dr. Robbie, like not being able to leave because he's like, oh my gosh, another case is coming in. But we will get to Dr. Robbie later. This. There's so many side plots that seem to be converging on this. This universal concern for Dr. Robbie, which I think is, is valid. It's fair. And Hunter, I just wanted to add, I got a couple comments from our viewers about people who were not only concerned about Dr. Robbie, but were sharing real life stories. They were writing to me and being like, oh my gosh, like my loved one was acting like Dr. Robbie. So it's good to see people in the pit really coming together and having concern for him. Very deep comments and thoughts about this episode. Rightfully so.

Ute Brezewitz (4:54)

I'm worried what's going on?

Hunter Harris (4:58)

Robbie, I got a.

Ute Brezewitz (5:02)

Feels like I'm never gonna see him again after tonight.

Noah Wiley (5:04)

He Say something.

Ute Brezewitz (5:05)

Yeah, he said a lot of things. You should talk to him. He listens to you.

Noah Wiley (5:08)

He's a grown up and he just needs to go on vacation.

Ute Brezewitz (5:11)

Can't you at least try to get

Dr. Alok Patel (5:14)

him to promise to come back in one piece?

Noah Wiley (5:17)

He doesn't like to listen.

Dr. Alok Patel (5:20)

So make him.

Hunter Harris (5:22)

So there's a moment between Duke and Dr. Robbie outside where Dr. Robbie really breaks down and says, I don't know if I want to be here anymore. I don't know if I want to be anywhere anymore. And it's really, I think, one of the best, you know, scenes of Dr. Robbie and really of Duke, too, because Duke is so empathetic in that moment. And I think now we get a really clear sense of why Dr. Robbie has been, you know, kind of keeping himself in the ED long after his shift is over. Because charge nurse Dana said, okay, which is it? Do you want to leave or do you want to stay? And now we understand why, because he doesn't really feel this sense of purpose for his life outside of the emergency department. And that's incredibly sad.

Noah Wiley (6:06)

Yeah, I don't know if I want to be here anymore.

Dr. Alok Patel (6:11)

I don't know how you stand 12 minutes in there, let alone 12 hours, 20 years.

Noah Wiley (6:18)

No, that's the only place I can be. I have purpose in there. I can be distracted in there. I don't know that I want to be anywhere anymore.

Dr. Alok Patel (6:35)

It's so beautifully set up because they just came out of this conversation about mortality, but regarding Duke, and Duke thinking about his. His own kind of medical future, and he says, well, it's a coin flip. And Dr. Robbie's like, it's not a coin flip. You know, you have to have this surgery. So we've kind of gone from Duke and Dr. Robbie's world, and then it's set up outside over, you know, Dr. Robbie's bike. Now it's almost like he's stepping into Duke's world and he's outside the emergency department, probably in a place where he could be vulnerable. And that almost seems like this. This emotional area where Dr. Robbie can just kind of let go.

Hunter Harris (7:12)

Yeah. And also because I think part of it is that he doesn't, you know, he's not working with Duke every single day. He doesn't. Duke doesn't need him to be perfect or to be a, you know, like the sort of Invincible Dr. Robbie Day Shift attending, that Duke is coming to him as a friend, and he can express concern that way. I think that's a really important sort of distinction here between his conversation with Duke and his conversation with charge nurse Dana.

Dr. Alok Patel (7:35)

Right. You know, and it just kind of speaks to what mental health stressors. So many people working in healthcare and beyond go through, you know, these glimpses of PTSD also not seeking help. Even though everyone around him is concerned about him.

Hunter Harris (7:50)

For sure. I think today, though, he has been, especially with Langdon coming back, really kind of put on skates, and it's caused him to reevaluate a lot.

Dr. Alok Patel (7:58)

Oh, we have to get into Langdon.

Noah Wiley (8:00)

Yeah. I wouldn't say he's been looking out for me exactly. I think he'd probably prefer not to see me at all today, actually.

Ute Brezewitz (8:07)

You think that's because he's mad at you?

Noah Wiley (8:10)

I think he feels like I let him down because I did.

Ute Brezewitz (8:15)

Jesus. With all the martyrs around here, you think this was a passion play?

Noah Wiley (8:18)

What's your take?

Ute Brezewitz (8:22)

I worked with that man for 10 months while you were gone. He's not mad at you. He's mad at himself for failing you. Rusty James, really just more white night, white noise. That's how it is.

Dr. Alok Patel (8:37)

Dr. Ellis is legit.

Hunter Harris (8:39)

She really is. And I think this moment is kind of like the thesis for what Langdon and Robbie have been going through all season. It is more white night, white noise. These are two men who want to be perfect and who are falling short of that but don't want to. You know, it's almost like they're playing a game of chicken with each other, like, who's going to want to have a confrontation first? And I love Dr. Ellis in this scene. I thought this was, like, such a phenomenal moment.

Dr. Alok Patel (9:04)

It was. And as you just mentioned, I like the line she said when she said, white night, white noise. Almost like she was like, can you two, like, white boys with egos, like, figure out what's happening?

Hunter Harris (9:14)

I think she's right. And I think this is sort of what chart turns. Dana was trying to say earlier that everything that Dr. Robbie feels about Langdon is really just internal struggle. For Dr. Robbie, it has very little to do with. With Dr. Langdon coming back to work.

Noah Wiley (9:28)

Dr. Langdon, what is your plan? Neuro. This is right here, right now. This guy's gonna be a living head. If we do nothing. I could paralyze him. Doctor the fuck up. Sir, the partial dislocation of the two vertebrae in your neck is putting pressure on your spinal cord. I can try to move the neck bones back into place. That could help. There's no guarantees. If we do nothing, the weakness is definitely gonna get worse. But either way, there's still a chance of paralysis. Do it, please.

Hunter Harris (10:00)

This is one of my favorite, like, medical things this season, because I truly. I'm like, so Dr. Langdon is, like, pulling on this guy's neck, and we're hoping that something clicks into place. I need you to explain to me what's happening here. And also, I can see the risk of it on Langdon's face because it. He looks stressed.

Dr. Alok Patel (10:18)

So I'll tell you straight up. I have never seen or heard of someone doing this procedure in an emergency department without a neurosurgeon involved. But I've read about it. It exists in the literature. So what's. What essentially is happening is this guy got into an accident, hit a telephone pole, I believe. Airbag deployed. And by the way, his neck was injured, by the way his head was hit, his cervical spine. So we have seven cervical vertebrae, C1 through 7. They kind of move and they flex and they rotate, and they're on these hinges, and one of the hinges basically moved out of place. And so that is what is described as the unifacet dislocation. Now, what's happening is that it may be causing pressure on the spinal cord, which runs in between, kind of in the middle of the vertebrae.

Ute Brezewitz (11:08)

Okay.

Dr. Alok Patel (11:09)

And then Langdon makes that comment. He's like, oh, this could be also cutting off the blood supply. So when you have this progressive pushing and swelling on the spinal cord, the symptoms start to get worse. So the guy's rolling in the back, and he's saying, oh, my gosh. Like, now my arms are tingling. And then what causes the emergency is when he says, I'm having trouble breathing. And C3, C4, and C5, keep the diaphragm alive. So if you lose those C3, C4 vertebrae, like, you can't breathe anymore. That's when Dr. Robbie's like, we got to do something. Neurosurgery is not coming. And so they do the reduction manually. So you got two guys holding him down and basically trying to get that hinge to. To click back in place. Usually when this is done, neurosurgery has a specific kind of a halo device to hold the neck in place. They're using imaging, and that close reduction, meaning it's done without surgery, is done with extreme supervision. So this is definitely some cowboy medicine. But it was Langdon's return to glory,

Hunter Harris (12:06)

and I like that Robbie is the one who tells him, I've never seen this happen, so you need to do it, because I think that's a big moment in their relationship moving forward.

Noah Wiley (12:14)

Bad data is shit data. Maybe she Was diaphoretic and they slid down on route. Yeah, she was moving a lot. Diaphrag. My. She had big breasts. She didn't want to move him out of the way to get under her bra lines. Come on, Robbie. Women are misdiagnosed for heart attacks all the time. This is a big reason why. Shall we put it to a vote? Hey, ladies in the room. Show of hands. Death with modesty or life with brief nudity.

Dr. Alok Patel (12:33)

Death or life.

Noah Wiley (12:36)

Look at that. Turns out women want to live. Got it. EKG is an amazing tool if you use it right.

Hunter Harris (12:41)

So all shift. Dr. Ravi has been having some outbursts, and finally, one is directed to some kind of clueless EMTs. Maybe. Can you tell me exactly what they did wrong? And obviously, they did not want to move this woman's breasts, and that's how they missed a stemi.

Dr. Alok Patel (12:57)

So what? Dr. Robbie. Thank God he caught this as he walks in that room and notices that the EKG leads. So those little tiny stickers you see that are connected to the wires that read the heart's electrical rhythm, Those stickers are too low on this woman. And so those leads, the anterior or the front of the chest leads, need to literally be on the chest wall. So if somebody has large breasts, for example, you have to physically move the breasts out of the way, and. And you get those leads directly on the chest wall. Sometimes there's a mistake, like we see here, where the leads are too low or the leads might be on top of the breast tissue. And if that happens, you're not reading the light, right. Electrical current, if that makes any sense. You got to be reading exactly what's coming from the heart. So somebody has a stemi. So an ST elevation. Those are. That's a segment on the ekg. You won't necessarily see the stemi if the leads aren't in the right place. So that's essentially what Dr. Robbie notices. And then his comment to these guys is like, listen, in all patients, we need to make sure the leads are in the right place. And in women, if there's breast tissue involved, you have to get the breast tissue out of the way. And I'm glad the show took a moment to talk about heart disease in women, STEMIs and women, because there are times when they go undiagnosed or missed. And in this specific scenario, we see that it's related to inappropriate EKG lead placement. But women who have heart attacks don't always present with that crushing chest pain you see kind of enacted on tv. Women can experience different pains, like Fatigue, nausea, vomiting, jaw, or back pain. Sometimes their symptoms are dismissed. They present late. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk, ladies and gentlemen.

Hunter Harris (14:35)

No, I love it. I loved the dressing down of the two EMTs, like, what would you rather have an EMT move your bra or die of a heart attack? And all the women raise their hand. Like, I rather just feel uncomfortable for one moment. That was really satisfying. As someone who loves Dr. Mohe and Dr. Santos, to other people who've been kind of publicly dressed down by Dr. Rabi this shift, I'm sure they're like, okay, now I get to see someone else get their just desserts.

Dr. Alok Patel (15:04)

Hunter, we are finally seeing the cracks in the foundation of Dr. Robbie, not only in his relationship with his own mental health, but with everybody else like this. This is a pivotal time.

Hunter Harris (15:18)

Should we go inside the pit and talk to Noah himself?

Dr. Alok Patel (15:20)

Oh, we're gonna need to. We're gonna need to. Because I have questions also. Like, that moment with Duke is the moment when I'm like, yeah, I can't act. Because that is like, next level, next level. Like, award winning acting.

Hunter Harris (15:33)

I've seen your tiktoks. You're pretty good.

Dr. Alok Patel (15:37)

Noah, thank you for taking the time to chat with us and massive congratulation Pitt has done for the industry, for healthcare, and for sweeping the award season. Kind of awesome and deserved.

Noah Wiley (15:49)

Thank you, doctor. Great to be here finally. Thanks for finally having me on. My goodness, how long has it been now?

Dr. Alok Patel (15:59)

No, we have a pivotal moment in this episode. The layers of the Dr. Robbie Onion are being peeled back, and it seems like Duke is the person who gets it out of him. Their relationship outside the ED is something that really gets Dr. Robbie to open up about his mental health. So I wanted to ask you about how you approach this as a writer and an actor in terms of the portrayal, the blocking, all of it.

Noah Wiley (16:22)

So I attacked it from a couple of different standpoints, and Duke was a significant character because we don't really have a frame of reference for anybody outside the hospital that has a relationship with Robbie. So to bring in somebody that is not medical, that he knows in civilian life, that he's been working on this motorcycle with, and maybe showed a little bit of that interior life that he wouldn't show his co workers was a significant point of view to bring in.

Dr. Alok Patel (16:51)

There's something really deep about not only you as an actor, but Dr. Robbie that came out on screen.

Noah Wiley (16:57)

Yeah, I don't know what it is. A few years ago, I was working in a job in Chicago and I had a Day where I had to be extremely emotional. And it was one of those days that would normally throw an actor or you'd get sort of insecure, full of anxiety about. And I remember I went to work and all these actors kept saying, like, how you feel, man, you think you're going to get there today or man, I'm glad I'm not you today. And I just remember thinking, this is like the greatest day of my life. I'm going to go in there and do great work today. This is what I live for. This is what I've trained for. This is the clock is ticking down, we're down by two, I want the ball. You know, this is one of those moments that allow you to feel like you are a marquee player under the gun at the time when you need to deliver. So I live for those moments. To me, they're the most fun.

Hunter Harris (17:53)

Wow, that's great. I want to know about the relationship between Dr. Mohan and Dr. Ravi. It seems like when Dr. Ravi is so strict with Mohan and says like, are you having a panic attack because of your mommy issues? How much of that do you think comes from this reveal? When we learn that Dr. Robbie was abandoned by his own mother, Everybody wants

Noah Wiley (18:13)

context for why I'm so mean to Mohan. Yeah, I get that. You know, it's an interesting thing, this audience reaction to Robbie, because as much as you want to put him on a pedestal and think that he's a hero, he's a very flawed individual. And when he shows those flaws, yes, they're not pleasant to look at, nor are they pleasant for him to experience. But you know, he's deflecting, he's pre projecting. And when he perceives weakness in others, it's like holding a mirror up to himself. And he won't allow it in himself or he won't allow it in anybody else. And you can almost draw a line of correlation that's directly proportional to as angry as he gets to another character is as angry as he's being on himself. And that Mohan is somebody he has enough professional respect for and thinks highly enough as a physician to not want to let her get off easy by being indulgent in what he thinks is non professional behavior. So I think of it as being a really compassionate sort of expression that comes out nasty and inappropriate.

Dr. Alok Patel (19:22)

You know, Noah, I have to tell you, I now need to get a shirt that says Dr. The fuck up because what a line. And so I have a. I got a two part question. My first question is, who wrote that line? What inspired it? But also that line was delivered when Dr. Robbie was speaking to Langdon and they finally had this. This tough love moment that I think people have been waiting the entire season for. And I'm curious the direction of why that moment had to happen with this really intense cervical spine reduction and why it just wasn't in a break room, in a routine conversation.

Noah Wiley (20:00)

It's a fascinating relationship, that relationship. And I really loved playing it out with Patrick this season because has a lot of different nuances to it, and it depends on almost how far back you want to pull the frame of the picture on the surface. He's come back and of course he's penitent because he's disappointed the teacher. Then you look a little closer and you think, oh, look, the teacher actually feels like he failed the student. Oh, it's different than I thought. And then you look a little closer and you think, oh, no, he's representing the road of recovery. He's done the work that Robbie's not willing to do. He's kryptonite to Robbie. Robbie can't even look at him in the eye because he's just going to remind him of what he does not want to look at. And then you take it a step further and, you know, you get into that scene where the last point of graduation between these two characters is for Langdon to not look at Robbie as the expert in the room, but to be the expert in the room. And in that moment, that is Robbie pushing him so far out of the nest violently to say, I'm not going to be here tomorrow. You. You know, I may not be here ever again. This is the last. This is. It's on you now. You're the Robbie now. So doctor the fuck up. And it's harsh and revealing of Robbie admitting his own limitations, but is also, again, it's his anointment of Langdon is like, your turn. Torch passed. You know, you're looking at burnout here. I need somebody else to pick up this mantle.

Dr. Alok Patel (21:38)

Where did that line come from? The doctor the fuck up.

Noah Wiley (21:40)

That's pure Scott Gimmel.

Hunter Harris (21:46)

Wow. You're the Robby now. I got chills. That's really moving. Okay, so this episode ends on a big cliffhanger with Dr. Ravi looking at a chart that Dr. Alhashmi has shown him. Can you sort of talk to us a little bit about how their dynamic has changed throughout the season and acting those scenes out? La Cepita?

Noah Wiley (22:03)

Sure. What a lovely ad she's been to this ensemble and what a perfect sort of foil and Counterbalance. She's been to Robby all season long. They've had this lovely cat and mouse with each other, this lovely sort of one upsmanship quality, trying to figure out how they're going to jurisdictionally operate around each other, how Robbie's going to in good faith impart this ed that he loves to somebody who's not quite sure about her methodology. And then over the course of the shift, I think almost silently they grow this professional respect for each other's abilities. They each watch each other in action and have to come away saying I may not like him as a person or I may, I find her irritating, but she's good and she's a pro. Okay patient. As a 40 year old female with a history of seizure disorder for the past 35 years, she had no perinatal complications and was in excellent health until age 5 when she had the onset seizure. I can activity following prolonged illness with viral meningitis. Her alter mental status from the infected. Baron is this you. And you take that rapprochement. And that's the energy going into this last scene where suddenly this mystery that we've watched her going through all shift long gets context and the context is significant and will redefine their relationship again after that.

Dr. Alok Patel (23:38)

Almost every person we've talked to who's either acted on righted or been involved with the pit, either on this podcast or on social media, has been moved by the effect this show has had for healthcare professionals, for the industry at large. Alex Metz was even in tears when we talk to her about this. And you know, we've seen you that SNL skit first of all, phenomenal. There's Internet memes, but then on the other side, you know, I just recently saw you testifying in front of congress regarding consolidation in the entertainment industry. You were testifying last year in defense of healthcare professionals. What's next for you? What's the next stage you want to get to given how impactful the show has been?

Noah Wiley (24:18)

Well, I'm interested in change, you know, I'm interested in bringing systems online and helping people get through, healing. And all the things I'm involved in are geared towards one of those avenues, usually some human rights based thing. I enjoy being of service, I enjoy feeling like I can be of use. This has been a really gratifying year for me personally. So I feel even more engendered to want to be, you know, be magnanimous and share my time and my resources and, you know, my platform. I don't know, it's funny, I was saying to somebody earlier today that when I think about my career in my early 20s, when I was nominated for awards and not winning them, it was this sort of, oh, you know, I can't wait. What can I get out of this? What's in this for me? And then in my 50s, when it's all coming to me, it's less important and more interesting to say, what could we make out of this? You know, what does this mean for us? Which is just a different way of looking at it, but a lot more exciting to go to work from that standpoint.

Hunter Harris (25:30)

I wonder, how does Robbie's approach to the boundaries of working a job that requires so much of him personally differ from your own as an actor, writer and director?

Noah Wiley (25:40)

I'd say we both have boundary issues. We both have problems finding balance in our life, and we both love showing up for work more than we like showing up outside of work. Yeah, it's a good question. You know, I. Scott was asked a question recently. Scott Gemma. Like, what does no one not do well? And he said, relax. And I think that's really true. I. I'm. I like pressing my advantage with this one. And I'm so excited to be in this momentum that I'm sort of. I'm easily giving myself over to it. But these things come around once every 30 years, so you want to. Want to enjoy them.

Dr. Alok Patel (26:23)

That is such insight because again, people have talked to us, even writers, consultants, about how committed every single person is to the set. This is the level of commitment that makes the pit so real. And as our Scott Gemmell said, that makes medicine.

Noah Wiley (26:38)

Oh, our background artists. I can't say enough about them. Our background artists are such a huge part of the culture of our show because they are there for nine months every day, moving through that space, fully committed to what they're doing. And they're professional, personable, funny. Big part of the energy in that set comes from our background performers and how exceptional they are.

Dr. Alok Patel (27:05)

I hope they get some insole sponsorships for stanning for nine hours a day. It's wild.

Noah Wiley (27:10)

Thanks to our lending library and our punitive policy of not letting people have phones on set. They're the best red background in Hollywood, I can tell you that.

Dr. Alok Patel (27:21)

Well, no, I want to be mindful of your time unless there's something that you have not gotten a chance to be asked that we can take this moment to do right now because we're

Noah Wiley (27:31)

talking about episode 14. I would just love to acknowledge the work of Jeff Kober as Duke in our show. You know, it's not easy to come onto a show that's already established and is running like a freight train, and to have a character that's got a significant backstory with the lead. And Jeff and I had never met each other before we knew of each other's work, but I just. I loved playing with him, and the colors that he found and the colors he brought out and me were just really, really fun to play. And he was not somebody that I would have thought of immediately for the part we had. I had all sorts of other ideas, but. So glad we got him.

Dr. Alok Patel (28:11)

Noah, thank you so much for. For taking the time for chatting with us.

Hunter Harris (28:15)

Thank you so much.

Noah Wiley (28:16)

Thank you. And you guys are doing such a terrific job with this podcast. And look, I watch you all the time in all of your various incarnations, and you're terrific, so thank you. Keep it up.

Dr. Alok Patel (28:26)

My various incarnations. My. My Hindu mother is going to be so proud of that reference.

Ute Brezewitz (28:30)

Oh, my God.

Hunter Harris (28:31)

You've made his day. I love it.

Dr. Alok Patel (28:32)

Various incarnations.

Ute Brezewitz (28:34)

Right on.

Hunter Harris (28:36)

Well, thank you so much.

Noah Wiley (28:38)

Thank you both.

Dr. Alok Patel (28:42)

It's interesting because, Hunter, when I mentioned to people that we're going to be interviewing Noah, everyone is like, what does Noah think about the administration and about public health and about Medicaid expansion and what are they going to address? And there's so much expectation on this show. It's a really interesting parallel between Dr. Rabi and. And Noah. Noah's activism. Dr. Robbie as an ED attending.

Hunter Harris (29:06)

Yeah. I mean, I think that's probably why the moment with Langdon plays so wonderfully where he says, doctor the fuck up. It's time. You know what Noah said, like, Robbie's not gonna be here tomorrow. Maybe he's not gonna be there ever again. So it's really time for you to, like, take up this mantle on your own. You're the Robbie now. There's some part of that that I think is because of the expectation that we put on Dr. Rabi and how we do think of him as maybe the prototypical idyllic attending when he is just, you know, as human as anyone else in the ed. Now let's go outside the pit and hear from Ute Brezewitz, who directed this week's episode.

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Noah Wiley (30:17)

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Dr. Alok Patel (30:42)

I think the first thing that I'm curious about is your approach towards directing as we are approaching later in the season, later in the shift, and how you're approaching early episodes versus later ones.

Ute Brezewitz (30:56)

To tell you the truth, my approach is always the same. It is very important for me to know exactly where the actors, the characters are in their dramatic arc, in their emotional world. So usually between I've done episode three, seven, 11 and 14, so usually I had three episodes in between. Except when I did 11 to 14 where it was just too. So that's a lot to catch up on. It's not just reading the scripts. For me, it's really crucial to watch the dailies. The dailies are sometimes also called, I think the English, the British call it rushes. That is the footage that has been shot so far and it's posted on a platform where we can securely access it and review it. Some episodes are not cut by the time I start directing the next episode. So I cannot just go and watch the cut. I have to watch the dailies. And that takes a lot of time because I really want to see what they experienced and where they're at emotionally and what their interpretation was of what the script asked them to do. Because then I can step on set and I feel like I can guide them or I can reflect with them on what can be explored. Because I can say, I've seen what you've done in that moment. So where are we taking it from here?

Hunter Harris (32:17)

I have a follow up question to that. So the actors are playing people who've been on their feet for an entire day. By later in the season, can you feel that kind of tension or maybe tiredness on set in their performances?

Ute Brezewitz (32:30)

No kidding. Sometimes when I come on set to prepare myself for my episode and I see the actors and of course it's always a friendly hello. But then when they go back to work, I sometimes say to my assistant director, wow, they look tired, they look exhausted. And of course know makeup helps them in a very subtle way. But I Also think it's the general exhaustion being, you know, having these adrenaline pushes, you know, when a trauma comes in and suffering with patients and really experience what happens in an er. And you can see it. They. They live with this environment for months and months and months, and it shows. I was actually a little bit worried. John Wells shot the last episode after the Christmas break, and I thought, like, wow, towards the end of the season, they looked really exhausted and tired. And then we had the Christmas break and I was wondering, are they all going to look fresh faced for the last episode? But they all pulled it together and there was no break in the continuity of how they should look.

Dr. Alok Patel (33:33)

Yeah, I guess speaking of arcs and exhaustion and as you mentioned, breaking, we have watched this progression of Dr. Robbie from the beginning of the season until now, episode 14. It looks like we're finally starting to see a little bit of that break, especially in his conversation with Duke when he kind of just says, like, I'm not sure if I want to be back anymore. I wanted to ask you, what was it like directing Noah in this pivotal moment? Can you give us any. Give us any tea about the conversations that you had with him?

Ute Brezewitz (34:04)

You know, Noah, you just really put your finger right on one of the most beautiful moments, I think, in this episode when I got. I actually talked to Noah about this line and how it summed up everything in such a. In such a almost simple statement, and how I told him how moved I was by this line and how beautiful I thought it was. And with most actors, you ask things like, do you want to have your close up taken a little bit later? Do you want to, you know, warm up to it, dial it in a little bit? And Noah is always like, you can shoot me right away. There's a lot where this is coming from. And Noah can give you one emotional take after another. I think he said to me once, this well is deep, don't worry, I have a lot to give. So he can really do take after take. And the emotionality, the pain and everything that needs to come to the surface and at the same time has to be suppressed, which I always think is very difficult for an actor to play. He. He can do it over and over in such a beautiful world. I'm always amazed by him. I remember when I saw the very first scene with him walking into the hospital in season one in his close up. My first thought was, this is a man in pain. You know, there was so much underneath him right away. And so he just placed this part so beautiful and so deep and so, Rich.

Dr. Alok Patel (35:28)

Yeah.

Hunter Harris (35:30)

You have such a long list of incredible credits. And I'm curious, how does a show like the Pit, which films very quickly, but also continuity is such a big part of the show, sort of compare and contrast to directing on other sets.

Ute Brezewitz (35:42)

You jump on a fast moving train that's pulled by a very powerful, fine tuned engine. And I like to work fast. I like to stay in the moment, especially when the actors are warmed up and emotionally are there. It sometimes gets difficult or it can be a little bit almost frustrating if you have to slow down again and stand back because there's a turnaround in terms of how you shoot things. And now there's possibly lighting delay or whatever needs to be done. In all fairness, I have to say though, that most DPs are lighting really fast these days. But this show is also lit very carefully. I think people are not aware of it, but it just happens very quickly. We have a wonderful dp, Joanna Coelho, and her and her team, they just, you know, like work around you constantly, that they never, that you never, they never stop the momentum, you know, like her gaffer, you know, is always right next to her with the iPad, you know, controlling the lights above. And she quickly calls out which lights need to be diffused, where they need to fill in a little bit. So we are moving very, very quickly. And I love this kind of pace because you really get to stay in the moment with everybody. It's like shooting a documentary and you're just observing it. So I love that pa. Is there

Dr. Alok Patel (37:00)

anything as you're working on that kind of surprised you throughout the episodes? Something specifically about the show, the content that you're like, wow, this is different. I didn't expect this.

Ute Brezewitz (37:10)

You know, every show has its own style. And as a former dp, I like to think that I can identify the style of a show easily or quickly. But I needed a little bit of, you know, soft lessons from our dp, Joanna. You know, and she was very sweet about it because this show is truly filmed from the perspective of the healthcare workers, of the physicians, the nurses. And so the camera basically always pivots around one of our characters. Sometimes, you know, my first episode, I would make suggestions like, oh, let's just jump back here and do a wide shot. And Joanna would just gently tell me, I don't think they're gonna use this. Or she would say something like, oh, we never really do that. And I really had to wrap my head around it more. What is the visual style of this show? And the key is really it's always from the perspective of a healthcare worker. So it looks like. I think the show looks more easy than it actually is. It's not just following. It's very specific who we are with when the camera hands something, hands off to another character and what perspective we are using in what scene. So it's very, very specific. And I found it more challenging than some of the other shows that I. That I've done.

Dr. Alok Patel (38:37)

So as a physician, I like to assume, Utah, that things are not going to surprise me when I see them. I'm like, well, I've seen it all. But this moment with Langdon and Dr. Ravi with the cervical spine reduction, like, phenomenal. And, you know, the storytelling arc was incredible. I wanted to ask you what it was like to direct this moment where maybe there's some redemption in the relationship between Langdon and Dr. Robbie. This is a moment that I think the audience has been waiting for literally 14 episodes. What was it like to finally give Langdon this time, to almost prove himself to Dr. Robbie that he still has it?

Ute Brezewitz (39:11)

I love this question, because I have to tell you, you know, as directors, we're always curious, like, what kind of trauma am I gonna get? Am I gonna pop the hood, you know, am I gonna look, you know, inside somebody's chest? And I love this trauma for several reasons. First, of course, it's a big redemption moment for Dr. Landon. You know, he still has it. You know, he was brilliant in that moment. The stakes are so high. This person could be paralyzed from the neck down, possibly die as well, I think. You know, I mean, they were talking, you know, the other option was like to intubate him, but he was declining so rapidly with his nerve damage. And Dr. Lennon making the call, saying he's just seen it once, to say, like, I'm going to attempt it. You're at the edge of your seat. And also, the big difference in this trauma scene is that it is very much about life or death. But the patient is awake. He is wide awake. He experiences what's happening, what's done to him. So that adds another level of, I think, anxiety. As a viewer watching this, you really kind of behind the monitor, I think I was grabbing my DPs knee and, you know, jamming my nails into her knee because I was so tense, you know, I loved it so much. The key also, really was for me as a director to make sure that we get a feeling that there is really. That there is strength supplied power. They're really pulling, you know, that Noor and the other doctor are really pulling downwards and Patrick is pulling upwards, you know, so. So when shooting this, of course, we cannot apply any kind of pressure or pull, you know, push on, pull on the actor who's playing the patient. We have to be very gentle. And so there is a lot of, you know, muscle tension that I was watching to make sure that really. That we were really selling this moment. And I think it was absolutely beautiful how Patrick played the moment of relief and basically also shock, like I did it when it worked. And this proud moment of Noor Dr. Robbie looking at him and just saying, good job, but totally underplaying it on the way out, not making a big deal about it is also so beautiful. I think you have to be confident as a doctor to be able to do your job, to make calls like this, just as confident, you know, like, you have to be confident as a director to be able to lead people or be a voice on set that people are willing to. To listen to. And I think your confidence can be taken away from you so easily. So easily. And I feel like this is this beautiful moment where Dr. Lennon is getting his feedback underneath him, just to be told by Nurse Dana, you have to go and do your drug test. You know, like, so it's a lovely juxtaposition of being a brilliant physician who just saved somebody's life to, like, no, you have to pee into a little pot.

Hunter Harris (42:12)

It's.

Dr. Alok Patel (42:13)

And it is incredible how seamless the show looks. And then we learn about how much effort it really takes to get every scene. Scene right. It's super cool to hear.

Ute Brezewitz (42:24)

Let me just add something to that. You know, there is a meeting that we have during the prep time where the ad department just walks everybody through, where every patient is at that part of the story. So they say, like, in nose 17, we have whatever the broken leg, and in PS4, we have the burn victim. So everybody is being tracked. There's also a script supervisor, and her job is. We have two script supervisors. The one that works with the director on set, with the actors, and then there's a second script supervisor that just tracks all the background movement. So I've never had a show where you work on so many levels. And you also. At this point, I just want to point out the dedication of the extras that we have. I remember, you know, in this season, there was one Asian gentleman that was standing next to his wife's bed, and he was standing there all these months, every day he was standing there. So whenever I passed him, I would say to him, sit down whenever you can. You know, like sit on the bed or find a chair, sit down, rest your legs a little bit. Because his storyline was he was there with his wife, you know, and he was worried about her, and he was standing right next to. Next to his bed. So this gentleman was standing there for several months every day. It's amazing.

Hunter Harris (43:43)

Wow.

Dr. Alok Patel (43:43)

Unsung hero.

Ute Brezewitz (43:44)

Yes, really unsung heroes. For us as viewers, it's just, it's 15 hours. You know, it's a 15 hours line. But for the extras that are there, they are committed to the show and they show up and they do it month after month after month, whatever they're doing in the background. That's so cool.

Dr. Alok Patel (44:03)

Wow, Utah, that was amazing. Thank you so much for sharing all that.

Ute Brezewitz (44:08)

Okay.

Dr. Alok Patel (44:08)

As we enter the end of the season, it's so cool for people to hear about how you follow character arcs and the effort you put in and it truly shows. So thank you.

Hunter Harris (44:17)

Thank you so much.

Ute Brezewitz (44:19)

Thank you so much for having me. This was really wonderful.

Hunter Harris (44:24)

That's it for today's episode of the Pit podcast. We'll be here next Thursday right after the finale drop drops.

Dr. Alok Patel (44:29)

And as always, we want to hear from you. You all have sent us such insightful questions and comments. Keep it going. If you have a hot take on a character, if you're a medical professional and you want to add a detail, we want it all. And also, tell us, what did you think of this season? What do you want to see next season?

Hunter Harris (44:44)

Watch us on HBO Max or listen wherever you get your podcasts. The Pit podcast is a production of HBO Max in collaboration with prx. The executive producer of PRX is Jocelyn Gonzalez. Our managing producer is Courtney Florentine. Our editor is Lucy Perkins. Our production managers are Ebon Ochoa and Tony Carlson. Our video producer and editor is Anthony Q. Artis with assistant editor Damon Durrell Hinson. This show is engineered by Tommy Bazarian. Special thanks to Joe Carlino.

Dr. Alok Patel (45:14)

The executive producer of HBO Podcasts is Michael Gluckstadt. The senior producer is Alison Cohen, Sirocat and the associate producer is Erin Kelly. Technical director is Insang Hwang. I'm Alok Patel.

Hunter Harris (45:27)

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Ute Brezewitz (46:02)

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