The Plot Thickens: "Ben Answers Your Cleopatra Questions"

Podcast: The Plot Thickens (TCM)
Host: Ben Mankiewicz
Date: September 18, 2025

Episode Overview

In this special bonus episode, host Ben Mankiewicz answers listener questions about the tumultuous production of Cleopatra (1963), its legacy, and his own family’s involvement, particularly that of his great-uncle, director Joseph L. Mankiewicz. Listeners called in from around the world, bringing queries ranging from insider Hollywood scoop to personal Mankiewicz family lore. Ben’s answers blend history, candid reflections, and witty storytelling, maintaining a warm and conversational tone throughout.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Judy Garland’s Son and Joe Mankiewicz

• Question: Was Judy Garland's son Joey Luft named after Joe Mankiewicz? (Janine, 01:36)
• Ben's Response (02:36):
  • There's no definitive answer; Judy and Joe spoke occasionally after their romance.
  • Joe wrote a heartfelt letter to Liza Minnelli after Judy’s passing; Liza replied, "I know my mother loved you and I love you for it."
  • Lorna Luft (Judy’s daughter) told Ben, “You and I could be cousins.”
  • Quote: “I have no reason to believe it is or isn’t... There's nothing wrong with the question and it’s fun to speculate about.” (Ben, 04:22)

2. Reading Joe Mankiewicz’s Diaries

• Question: Did Ben feel nervous about reading his great-uncle's diaries during podcast research? (Zachary, 04:22)
• Ben's Response (04:43):
  • Ben was eager, not nervous; the diaries humanized Joe, showing humor, intellect, and deep wounds from his Cleopatra experience.
  • Quote: “He was much more human than I gave him credit for... And I’m a little embarrassed by how I felt about him before.” (Ben, 05:39)

3. Roddy McDowall’s Role and Oscar Snub

• Question: Why didn’t Roddy McDowall feature more prominently in the podcast? Was he robbed of an Oscar nomination? (Sarah, 06:41)
• Ben's Response (07:19):
  • Roddy was known for his discretion—“a mensch”—and confided in by many but kept stories private.
  • Fox mistakenly submitted Roddy's performance for Best Actor instead of Supporting, disqualifying him; they publicly apologized.
  • His friendship with Elizabeth Taylor and Sybil Burton lasted a lifetime.
  • Quote: “He just didn’t talk about it...because I know how to keep a secret.” (Ben, 09:57)

4. Fate of Cleopatra’s Sets and Costumes

• Question: What became of the massive sets and elaborate costumes? (Dan, 10:29)
• Ben's Response (10:48):
  • Some London sets were destroyed, with newsreels documenting the process.
  • Costumes and props appeared in the British comedy Carry On Cleo (1964).
  • Roman sets were dismantled, and elements were likely reused at Cinecittà Studios.
  • Curiously, Warner Brothers in LA houses some Cleopatra props; why, no one quite knows.

5. Richard Burton’s Feelings about Cleopatra

• Question: What did Richard Burton think of Cleopatra after release? (Dan, 13:21)
• Ben's Response (13:38):
  • Shockingly, Burton never watched the film.
  • He considered Cleopatra a “trailer for what the real movie should have been.”
  • Emotional anecdote from Michael Munn’s biography: Burton teared up reminiscing, admitted he “never saw it,” but took pride that “on the set it was going to be something I'd be proud of.”
  • Anecdote: On their yacht, Elizabeth Taylor watched it with her children and told Burton, “It’s really not at all bad. And Richard, you were fabulous as Antony.”
  • Quote: “Ah yes, I remember... I was good, wasn’t I?” (Richard Burton, 16:14, via Michael Munn’s interview)

6. Aftermath for Darryl Zanuck

• Question: What happened to Fox studio head Darryl Zanuck after Cleopatra? (Doug, 19:12)
• Ben's Response (19:25):
  • Zanuck returned mid-production; could have claimed credit or dodged blame depending on outcome.
  • Cleopatra (1963) was highest-grossing that year but unprofitable due to expense.
  • The Sound of Music (1965) saved Fox; later, Cleopatra finally turned a profit with its TV sale.
  • Over time, most Zanuck-era films lost money, leading to his and his son’s ouster in 1971.

7. Myth-Busting: Cleopatra and Century City

• Question: Did Cleopatra’s budget force Fox to sell its backlot, creating present-day Century City? (Michael, 22:31)
• Ben's Response (22:45):
  • Common misbelief. Fox began exploring land sale in 1956—years before Cleopatra.
  • The sale finalized in 1960, over a year before filming began; driven by other financial needs.
  • Ironically, the land sold for $43 million and Cleopatra’s cost was nearly the same.
  • Quote: “So the way people tell the story, Cleopatra was tied to the sale, but the sale happened before Cleopatra.” (Ben, 25:51)

8. The "Release the Mankiewicz Cut" Mystery

• Question: Could Joe’s preferred version—two three-hour films—be reconstructed? (Guy, 25:53)
• Ben's Response (26:48):
  • Most frequently asked question.
  • After Joe’s death, Fox searched worldwide for missing footage; very little was found.
  • Lost material likely destroyed, a fate typical of unused film then.
  • No known “Mankiewicz cut” could be assembled; if Disney had the footage, it would be a commercial opportunity.
  • Quote: “If Disney had it, they’d do it, they’d sell it... So I don’t think it’s out there.” (Ben, 29:23)

9. Wilkes-Barre, the Mankiewicz Family, and Rosebud

• Question: Why do Joe and Herman Mankiewicz reference Wilkes-Barre in their scripts? What about the Rosebud bike story? (Sam, 30:30)
• Ben's Response (31:08):
  • The town’s name amused them; became shorthand for “small town American ways.”
  • True story: Herman’s childhood bike was stolen outside the Wilkes-Barre library, a foundational wound later woven into Citizen Kane’s “Rosebud” motif.
  • Despite persistent retelling, the “Rosebud Bicycle Company” is a myth—but a persistent one.
  • Quote: “...in my memory, the bike was made by the Rosebud Company. I... have been corrected on it again and again... but you know what, Sam?... I probably won’t.” (Ben, 33:32)

10. Which Joe Mankiewicz Set for a Time Machine Visit?

• Question: If Ben could visit any of Joe’s film sets, which would he choose? (Daniela, 34:27)
• Ben's Response (34:53):
  • After joking about going to Deadwood with modern cash, Ben selects No Way Out (1950), which marked Sidney Poitier’s film debut.
  • Praises Joe for casting Poitier, shares a poignant personal meeting with the star:
    Quote: “He put his hands on my shoulders and said, I wouldn’t be in this business without your Uncle Joe.” (Ben, 36:15)
  • Would love to revisit the making of No Way Out for its groundbreaking themes and personal significance.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “He was much more human than I gave him credit for.” (Ben, 05:39)
• “I wish I’d known Roddy McDowall. But I think everyone wishes they’d known Roddy McDowall.” (Ben, 09:57)
• “Ah yes, I remember... I was good, wasn’t I?” (Richard Burton, via Michael Munn, 16:14)
• “If Disney had it, they’d do it, they’d sell it... So I don’t think it’s out there.” (Ben, 29:23)
• “He put his hands on my shoulders and said, I wouldn’t be in this business without your Uncle Joe.” (Ben, 36:15)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Question | |-----------|------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:36 | Was Judy Garland's son Joey named after Joe Mankiewicz? | | 04:22 | Ben’s experience reading Joe’s diaries | | 06:41 | Roddy McDowall’s Oscar snub and legacy | | 10:29 | What happened to Cleopatra's sets and costumes? | | 13:21 | Richard Burton’s feelings post-Cleopatra | | 19:12 | What happened to Darryl Zanuck post-Cleopatra? | | 22:31 | Myth-busting Century City: Did Cleopatra force Fox’s sale? | | 25:53 | Is the “Mankiewicz cut” possible? | | 30:30 | Wilkes-Barre, Mankiewicz family, and the Rosebud myth | | 34:27 | Which Joe Mankiewicz set would Ben visit with a time machine? |

Conclusion

Ben Mankiewicz’s willingness to answer personal, factual, and fun questions with honesty and charm brought this highly informative, entertaining Q&A to life. He debunked Hollywood myths, honored the shades of family legacy, and gave fans both closure and new curiosities about Cleopatra and its enduring web of stories.