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- [00:00]
John Lovett
Most people would rather remove a nest of irate hornets than search for auto and home insurance. That's why the zebra searches for you. Comparing over 100 insurance companies to find savings no one else can Compare. Today@thezebra.com I think I'll wait inside.
- [00:16]
Adam Rippon
Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores, automate allowance and keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications, kids learn to earn, save and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place. Try Greenlight risk free today@greenlight.com Wondery hi, everyone. Welcome back to Intrusive Thoughts. I'm your host Adam Rippon. And today we have somebody very important, very special on the podcast today. He's one of the co founders of Crooked media. He's a former speechwriter for Hillary Clinton and the Obama White House. He's a podcaster, He's a friend, he's an author, and he is John Lovett.
- [01:20]
John Lovett
Thanks for having me, John.
- [01:22]
Adam Rippon
Thank you so much for being here today.
- [01:24]
John Lovett
And you know what meant the most there? What? Podcast.
- [01:26]
Adam Rippon
Ah, damn it.
- [01:28]
John Lovett
It was friend.
- [01:29]
Adam Rippon
Yeah. Well, you, you are a friend, period. Great.
- [01:33]
John Lovett
Love that.
- [01:34]
Adam Rippon
I, as a friend, want to talk about a few things today.
- [01:38]
John Lovett
Okay.
- [01:39]
Adam Rippon
The first thing I want to talk about is one thing I didn't include in your in your intro was that you are also a reality superstar.
- [01:48]
John Lovett
Sure.
- [01:49]
Adam Rippon
You were on Survivor.
- [01:51]
John Lovett
That's right.
- [01:51]
Adam Rippon
Season 47. And I feel like, okay, I still feel really strongly about the way that this all went down for you. One, how long have you wanted to be on Survivor? And had you sent in an audition tape before? No, this was one and done.
- [02:18]
John Lovett
So I watched Survivor when it first aired in the year 2000. Live, live. When Richard Hatch, as a kind of gay strategist, nude, gay strategist, won. And I loved Survivor. I fell off of it because I went to college and then really just sort of moved. Didn't watch it again for a long time, came back to it and then basically caught up on virtually every season. And I got really intense about it and I got really focused on it. And then all of a sudden I started taking little notes down in a notes doc. You know when you have an idea and then you start writing it down. And I feel like in the writing it down I started to convince myself that I wanted to do it you're.
- [03:09]
Adam Rippon
Ruminating on the how would I do this differently or better, right?
- [03:13]
John Lovett
And what would I say about why I wanted to go on it? Right? And I started to make the argument and I started to convince myself. And so then I filmed a video and I sent it in. I should also say that looking back, like, I was in such a big period of change in my life and look, there are all kinds of ways you can direct what is, I'll be honest, a midlife crisis, you know, and it's funny because even saying that, do.
- [03:42]
Adam Rippon
You feel like you were in a midlife crisis?
- [03:44]
John Lovett
100. And I know that it was because even the term upsets me because it makes me feel old. And so I know that that's what it is because even to admit that that's what it could be feels shameful because I was facing the fact that I was 40 and you know, look, it wasn't. It didn't line up. The timing isn't exactly right. But like, like all these things had been piling on. I had been in a long term relationship from the time I was 29. I was now 40 and single. By the time I ended up applying, I was in a relationship, but my life had changed a lot. I was readjusting what I imagined my future to be. And I had this feeling like, if I don't do this now, I'll never do it, so let's just fucking do it. And so I filmed this video, I sent it in, and the next thing I know, I'm like on a zoom with Jeff Probst talking about whether or not it's a good idea for me to be on Survivor. And I told Jeff Probst in our conversation, I will go home first or I will go all the way. And then coconuts.
- [04:57]
Adam Rippon
The coconuts. Okay. Cause I. Okay, not to. Spoiler alert, everyone. You do go home first. But I find this, it was incredibly upsetting because you got caught in like the crossfire of. Because I feel like your like demeanor, everything about the way that you were like in the game felt very good gameplay to me.
- [05:21]
John Lovett
I was fine. I didn't have an opportunity to really, like, gain purchase. There was a little bit of a chaotic thing that happened that caught me off guard and I just couldn't find my way out of it. And because we barely knew each other and it had just begun, I really couldn't see my way to the other side of it as hard as I tried. And they show you a little bit of it. But I went into that first and last Tribal Council, pretty aware of what was happening and struggling to know if I had found a way to the other side of it. But what I came away from it feeling is not like, oh, I screwed this up. I was wrong to do this. It was more like I was having. There was one moment where I stopped. It's stressful. It's a kind of stress I can't imagine. I've actually never experienced before. But there was only one moment in the entire time where I kind of lost myself in the worry of what was happening. And I felt it and I was. It wasn't like a. It was real anxiety. I had a moment of genuine, not just nervousness but, like real stress. And I caught it and I. And I said to this to myself, I was like, john, you worked so hard to put yourself in this position. You are here on purpose. You made this happen. You were the dog that caught the car. You flew halfway around the world to catch it. If you're going to allow yourself to be overtaken by this, like, emotionally, that is so fucking stupid. And I calmed myself down a bit and thought about it and then went about trying to figure out how to get out of this circumstance. But in the end, I couldn't. I missed three dinners and.
- [07:00]
Adam Rippon
And you're better for it.
- [07:01]
John Lovett
And I'm better for it.
- [07:02]
Adam Rippon
I just want to say that, like, so if anybody, if you haven't seen the episode, basically there's. You're. You are on your team, and in your team there's this guy, his name is Andy. Andy, who basically has this, like, complete mental breakdown in the middle of, like, the. The last challenge, and he kind of stops in the middle of it. And then he gets asked, like, what's the deal? And he basically confesses to saying that he wanted to throw you. He knew that he was going home. He wanted to try to throw you, who he says is his best friend under the bus, but he just couldn't do, like. And that he says the soonest he started thinking that he, like, starts to feel ill, like, at the idea of. Which is actually incredible.
- [07:45]
John Lovett
It was great.
- [07:46]
Adam Rippon
It's incredible.
- [07:46]
John Lovett
It was smart. It worked. Look, whatever percentage of it was real versus realizing he needed to do something drastic. More power to him. The other part of it too is like, I am. I. Like, I can let things slide. I can be nonchalant, but when I focus on something, like, I'm an intense moment, even just getting on Survivor, I even told them this when I was thinking about being on this show. I can goof off I can kind of be a bad student, but when, like, my attention really focuses, it really is like a. It can become super intense. And that's how I felt about getting on Survivor and that's how I thought I would be on Survivor. That, that, like, once I put my focus on something, like, I'll become, like, really competitive and really intensely focused on what I need to do to stay in the game. And that was true. But I realized as I was there that. That, like, I. I didn't have that part of me that was like, I need to stay here not by fighting but by kind of, like. I don't want to say, like, I wouldn't have had it in me to kind of like, throw and like, kind of.
- [09:02]
Adam Rippon
I know it's.
- [09:03]
John Lovett
I respect people that wanted to do it, but, like, I love my life. I love what I get to do. I feel really fortunate. Survivor was an exciting and fun thing to do and I would do it again. Right. Like, because I don't feel like I had a bad experience. I feel like I didn't get the experience.
- [09:19]
Adam Rippon
I would do it again.
- [09:20]
John Lovett
Yeah, sure. I. I think I will. I mean, look, easy to say. If it was actually an opportunity, I'm sure I would. I have to debate it, but, like.
- [09:30]
Adam Rippon
I mean, why not?
- [09:31]
John Lovett
That's my feeling about it.
- [09:32]
Adam Rippon
Just why not?
- [09:33]
John Lovett
Well, part of it also was like, I am comfortable. People are like, well, you don't know what the edit's going to be. And I said, you know, like reality shows of all kinds, I feel like their edits are various levels of faithful and ethical. You know, like, you can see some shows will Frankenstein a story together, but with Survivor, like, I've watched it so much and even when I watched it as it like it, there's an ethic and, like, integrity to what it is. And I'm sure people feel as though they've gotten bad edits and have. But I had this moment and part of it I do think was about, like, this, you know, big period of, like, change in my life was like, you know what? I'm willing to kind of hand myself over to the Survivor gods and not just whatever happens in the game happens, but I'm comfortable with whatever they show and I'll. Whatever that is. That's what I was. And I feel like I know myself now and I'm comfortable enough with myself now that I can let them tell the story.
- [10:31]
Adam Rippon
Yeah, no, I totally. You were coming at it from, like, a super mature point of view. But the thing that I have the problem with this is what I have the problem with is that the reasoning of some of the people on your team was that Andy was, like, so much stronger than you that they needed the brute strength. Like, he was the size of a Hercules.
- [10:54]
John Lovett
Look, whatever the rationale they had. Look, maybe I wasn't rowing hard enough in the challenge, whatever, but in their minds, I'm not sure that's true. But the. Look, like, we had two moments in front of everyone, all the tribes, and one of them, like, I told some jokes, right? Like, like had a funny moment with Jeff and then, like, Andy had his meltdown and whatever the explanation, he had put himself in a position where it was very hard for him to come back. And I was somebody that, like, might have been more of a. If not physical stress thresh, maybe somebody that was gonna be more social and fun that, like, people would like and could kind of build something. So. I get it. Like, I really don't. I understand how it got to that point. I don't. I, like, totally respect the gameplay that led to what happened. I don't know how I could have gotten to the other side of it. But, you know, that's. Look, somebody has to go home first.
- [11:51]
Adam Rippon
No, they do. And I just think that you had.
- [11:54]
John Lovett
Like, I feel bad for the show.
- [11:58]
Adam Rippon
Nobody felt worse for the show than me in that moment because I was like, I just. It's. It's just. I mean, that's sometimes how reality shows go where, I mean, you really are not in control of, like, everybody else and you don't take into account how other people are gonna react and maybe, like, bring you into it, which then makes you, like, the center of a.
- [12:18]
John Lovett
Plot point, which is, by the way, also true of life. And, you know, totally.
- [12:23]
Adam Rippon
Yes.
- [12:23]
John Lovett
You can't. You can't control other people. People. And maybe what I needed in my life was just to be absolutely cut down. Imagine if I had done really well, how insufferable would I have been on that return home flight from Fiji? So such is life.
- [12:44]
Adam Rippon
No, I feel like if you did win, it would have been harder to get you on this podcast.
- [12:50]
John Lovett
Impossible. Not true.
- [12:51]
Adam Rippon
I don't accept that. I don't accept that.
- [12:53]
John Lovett
I appreciate that.
- [12:54]
Adam Rippon
I do appreciate that a lot. I want to know, is there any other reality show that you would consider doing or have you ever watched and, like, wanted to do? Because Survivor for me is, like, maybe one of the lower ones on the, on the totem pole. I don't think I could do it. I just. I could not do it. I actually know that for a fact?
- [13:14]
John Lovett
Yeah. Like, I. For Survivor, too. Like, I like, I like nice things, but I feel like I can tolerate anything. And I was. And I was okay. Like, I even just sleeping outside, I, like, I. Look, I only did it again. I only missed three dinners, but I feel like I could handle it. Traders seems like it's survivor with food, so that seems pretty good to me.
- [13:33]
Adam Rippon
Yeah, I feel like you'd be great at Traders.
- [13:35]
John Lovett
Yeah, maybe. Maybe. I mean, look, I. It was fun. It was a great, like, way to step outside of. Of my life a little bit. And by the way, like, keeping up with the horrors of the news on an hourly basis, turning over my phone, putting myself in a totally different mindset with totally new people. That was worth it. In and of itself, though, I think there are easier ways to do a digital detox, right?
- [14:02]
Adam Rippon
Like maybe just turn off your phone at home.
- [14:05]
John Lovett
End on that. It's a good idea.
- [14:07]
Adam Rippon
It's, you know, hindsight. Always 20 20.
- [14:10]
John Lovett
Should have thought of that.
- [14:12]
Adam Rippon
Okay, I want to know. I know, like, I've heard that you've been a speechwriter, like, I mean, for as long as I've known you. What does. Like being a speechwriter for a senator or for a president, what does that, like, even. What does that mean?
- [14:29]
John Lovett
So there's all kinds of different versions of what it is to be a speechwriter, and different politicians and public figures have different relationships with a speechwriter. And being a speechwriter for a senator or a governor is very different than what it is to be a speechwriter for the president, which is a unique job. And there's no other version of being a speechwriter quite like it. So what it is. So I'll just tell you what my path was. So I am bouncing around thinking about law school. I volunteer for the 2004 John Kerry campaign, end up writing a few little things here and there, like op EDS for local newspapers that they needed some help with. This led to a job on Capitol Hill that led to an opportunity to apply for a job as a junior speechwriter for Hillary Clinton. I apply.
- [15:15]
Adam Rippon
Where are you based?
- [15:16]
John Lovett
I'm in D.C. right now. I've been going back and forth between New York and D.C. standup, like, in a purely amateur way. I was thinking about law school. I was applying to law school. I was actually writing a math paper. I had studied math in college, and I was working on turning.
- [15:31]
Adam Rippon
Studied math.
- [15:32]
John Lovett
I did. I was working on turning my senior thesis with my professor and another writer into a kind of published paper, which I ended up doing, which was my one achievement in math, but I was all over the place. And it led to this opportunity to be a writer for Hillary Clinton. But in the run up to getting that job, she was going to a roast of Barbara Walters, and they needed someone to write jokes. So I wrote some jokes for Hillary Clinton, which I think kind of helped me stick in their minds when they were looking for someone to come on board. But I'd never really been a speechwriter. I'd helped with a few speeches here and there. I'd worked for a senator named John Corzine. I'd wrote a couple very minor, very, very minor statements for the Kerry campaign that someone else that, like, you do a draft and then you never see it again because it gets edited by all these people. So even a stretch to say I wrot those things, but they needed somebody. I threw myself at their mercy. They hired me, and basically I learned on my feet as a junior writer. And Hillary Clinton is speaking often three or four times a day. She's in the Senate, she's doing events around D.C. she's doing all kinds of public events in New York. She's recording videos for different events she can't attend. And there's just a huge churn and a huge volume. And so you're working with legislative aides, you're working with press people, you're working with others on the team to messaging people and all the rest to figure out a bunch of different remarks for a bunch of different kind of smaller events. And at the time when I started, they had outside speechwriter, an outside speechwriter or two who would help with bigger public addresses that I had no qualifications to write because I was 22, 23 when I started.
- [17:16]
Adam Rippon
And roasting Barbara Walters.
- [17:19]
John Lovett
Well, the Barbara Walters ones I could help with. But like a big foreign policy address, like, I have no place in doing this. I don't. Right. And I was completely in over my head in this job. I remember feeling always a bit guilty about the ways in which I wasn't doing what I was supposed to be doing or couldn't figure out how to succeed. And at the time, I blame myself. And now, 15 years later, you were completely in over your head. Of course you felt that way, but like, I was a mess. Like, I had where I'd like, I take. I'd put on my Jose Banks suit, sweat through it on the Metro, by the way, I'd go right when the coffee shop opened in the Senate basement. I would get a big coffee and a chocolate chip cookie, which is insane, just to like, power myself, as I tried to figure out how to write these speeches. And I worked all the time and I did my best, and I, like, basically learned as I went, but that was what that job was. It's like, oh, she's speaking to the Long island association of Realtors. Oh, there's a national security conference, and she needs 10 minutes of remarks about this topic. Go talk to the foreign policy aide and get him to help you work on this. You'd write with a lot of other people because you can't know every policy. You have to kind of work with those people. And you. And. And it's a mix of different skills. And this is, I think, the skill set that a speechwriter ultimately has. You have to be how many people.
- [18:42]
Adam Rippon
Are on, like, those teams.
- [18:44]
John Lovett
So a Senate office, it's a. It depends on how you count it. But, like, day to day, you're working with, I think, between like, 10 and 15 people. Well, not on any one speech, but, like, there's somebody that's an expert on energy, and there's somebody that's an expert on.
- [18:59]
Adam Rippon
Got it.
- [18:59]
John Lovett
Finance, and there's somebody who you work with on foreign policy, and there's a legislative director who knows what the play is in Congress, and then there's a New York person who knows the state of play in New York. And so you're kind of figuring out the different groups of people that need to be involved. There's. She has an outside advisor who's going to work on the campaign that's providing advice if it's a campaign event. So there's just all kinds of different people, and you build a little every time you do a speech. There's a kind of part of what you're doing is you're not figuring it out. You're partly figuring out, but you're kind of who's the circle that needs to look at this before it goes to her? Who's the circle that needs to. Who gets to decide what an edit is? Whose opinion matters the most? Right. Like, there's just a lot of politics you navigate. And so in the end, you need to have a pretty good sense of politics. You need to have a pretty good ability to write quickly. You need to be able to work with others, and you need to be able to learn how to understand somebody's voice. You don't need to be the best in any one of those things, but you need to have some skill in each of them and put those together. And that, to me, is what a speechwriter does. And I worked on Hillary's 2000. I worked in her Senate office and her 2006 campaign, then her first presidential campaign, then, then after she loses in 2008, I am back in her Senate office. And Jon Favreau, who is now my co founder of Crooked Media, was going to hire one more speechwriter to work at the White House for President Obama. And I ended up applying for that, writing a draft speech for Obama, made it through that process, ended up working at the White House. And then that is a totally different beast. I imagine it's, it's truly like, what an incredible experience that I'm sure I did not appreciate enough at the time. Not just because it was a job unlike any I would ever have, but also it was a moment unlike any other and increasingly one that feels like it's from a beautiful imaginary past. But you kind of take those skills and then you apply them in this much bigger stage. I remember, look, I'm not exactly great at long term planning, but I'm a fast writer. And because I had this math background and because I felt like I had a good set of skills around writing about technical issues, I think one thing you learn in doing math is how first of all, at math, if you don't understand it, you can't do it. You can't kind of get it. You either get it or you don't.
- [21:20]
Adam Rippon
I know that firsthand. I don't understand it and I can't do it.
- [21:26]
John Lovett
And every time I hear someone say that, I don't blame you, I blame the schools, I really do, but that's how I apply. I feel like I could apply math to writing speeches about hard policy questions. And so we're in the middle of a financial crisis. A lot of times, President Obama, there'd be a jobs report or a financial report or some piece of news, good or bad, and the markets are reacting or they're not reacting and you just. The president would have to go speak often. And so I felt like I had a good comparative advantage of. It's 7:00am, the President's gonna speak at 10:00am, we're gonna get some information at 8:30am Whatever it is, quickly write something, take it through the editing process so that the President can go speak at 11 or 12 at the podium, whatever it might be. And I felt like I was doing what I was supposed to be doing in those moments. Because you're working with the President's advisors like David Axelrod, who was very involved and really influential. You're talking to the people in the national economic Council or the Treasury Department or the Chief of Staff's office. You're gathering all this, you're putting it together, you're writing it, you're getting feedback. I remember there were moments where I was sitting outside the Oval Office. President Obama has just reviewed it. He's given feedback. I've been figuring out how to incorporate that feedback in a way that comports with what the Treasury Secretary thinks and what the National Economic Council thinks. And you're doing it in real time. And then you look up on the screen and there's four boxes for msnbc, cnn, C Span, Fox News, whatever the four were. And the podium is there, but you're still figuring out with these people what the speeches are and what the words are going to be. And that was like, you know what? I can handle this. It's not my job to figure out what to say. It's not my job to know the answers, but it's my job to help this group of people figure out what the right thing to say is and to say it in the best way possible very quickly. And I felt like I could do that. So those were the interesting kind of high pressure moments. Yeah.
- [23:24]
Adam Rippon
Wow. That is high pressure. Actually, there's an Obama quote that I want to talk to you about today. Okay. It's pretty recent. Barack Obama says, in my opinion, you should not eat ketchup after the age of 8. I have nothing against kids having ketchup. At a certain point, you've got to outgrow it. Ketchup has its place. When I see a grown person pouring a lot of ketchup on something, Michelle Obama cuts him off and says, everybody loves ketchup. What do you think has to happen to someone? That they turn on ketchup, which I always kind of viewed as like a universally liked condiment.
- [24:07]
John Lovett
So such an important question.
- [24:09]
Adam Rippon
Thank you.
- [24:10]
John Lovett
And I think it's worth exploring, like, what is the hurt underneath his comments.
- [24:14]
Adam Rippon
Absolutely.
- [24:15]
John Lovett
So hot dogs.
- [24:18]
Adam Rippon
Yeah, Hot dogs. And that's the episode. Hot dogs.
- [24:22]
John Lovett
Yeah.
- [24:22]
Adam Rippon
Yeah. Thank you, everyone. It's been a pleasure. Okay. Hot dogs. Yes.
- [24:30]
John Lovett
When you're a kid, you put ketchup on hot dog.
- [24:32]
Adam Rippon
Yeah.
- [24:33]
John Lovett
As you get older, at some point you discover a mustard. Right. Discover that you actually. It's not as gross as it once seemed.
- [24:40]
Adam Rippon
That's true. Yes. This is the, like, sort of the line of succession. I went down. Yeah.
- [24:49]
John Lovett
And to me, what I hear in that comment is there are. There are people that are not taking that step, that are not doing the hard work of living in a little Bit of discomfort, right? Like when you first try mustard, when you first try sushi, when you first try an olive, when you first try crazy.
- [25:10]
Adam Rippon
You're saying all of these things that I truly hated until, like, the last. Within the last 10 years.
- [25:16]
John Lovett
But you try it and a little something lights up and you don't like it, but you're up to trying it again. And it's hard to explain why that's true. When you have, like, maybe you're like a drink, you know, like, not like a nice cocktail. And you're like, huh, I hate this. But do I? I know, but do I.
- [25:32]
Adam Rippon
It's like cigarettes. Ketchup is cigarettes.
- [25:35]
John Lovett
Ketchup is cigarettes. And I do think that, like, this is too. This is. So it's just about fucking ketchup. But I do think, like, what that's about, like, why? Like, it's one thing to be like, I don't like ketchup, but it's another to be like, it's wrong for you to like ketchup. And what I feel like it's about is, hey, like, as a society, are we training ourselves to be afraid of little bits of discomfort to get to something better? Right? Like, is there a lack of. Is there? I'm serious too, by the way. Like, I know this sounds like a.
- [26:04]
Adam Rippon
I'm completely with you on this.
- [26:07]
John Lovett
I think this is what's under it. Like, yes, it's about catch up, but really it's about, like, hey, it's about comfort. It's about comfort and it's about understanding that there are things that we will ultimately realize we like and that are good for us, that maybe are a little sharper, a little harder, and take a little bit more effort whether to experience or just to come to love, right? And, like, I think that's true of ketchup versus mustard. It's also true of staying home and watching a show because it's easy and fun and doing the work of being like, I'm gonna make plans. And even though in the moment I don't it. Sometimes you leave the house and that's when you realize you want to go out. That's a Guy Branham paraphrase. We are all kind of trained to do the quick and easy thing all the time. And even in politics, you see this in every story, big and small, serious and not serious, which is everyone's afraid or feels like they no longer have to take part in the little bit of hard work it takes to understand somebody or to process your anger. Everyone just posts how they Feel right away, rather than saying, wait, hold on a second. Like, what's the best way? Like, why do I feel so angry? Or why do I feel so hurt? And, like, why is my instinct to blame somebody else? What? Like, it's true. Even in little relationship fights, right? Like, there's always that moment if you're in a. Like, a little disagreement with your partner or a friend where, like, you're mad, and then you have that moment where you realize, like, ugh, I'm going to have to apologize, you know?
- [27:35]
Adam Rippon
Yeah.
- [27:36]
John Lovett
And you like that. There's that moment where you, like, take a step to the right of your anger and you're like, oh. And you see it and you're like, fuck, this is going to suck. But I'm going to be immature. I'm going to. I know what I'm supposed to do, and I want to be the person that does it. And I know what I'm saying is crazy, but I think that's what switching from ketchup to mustard is in. In the. In the reason of the feeling of being annoyed.
- [27:56]
Adam Rippon
I completely agree with you. And I just want to say it was incredibly impressive to watch somebody start with hot dogs and end with relationship quarrel resolvement. Yeah, it was beautiful.
- [28:09]
John Lovett
I hope that made sense. And again, I know that we're talking about catch up. I feel embarrassed.
- [28:14]
Adam Rippon
You shouldn't.
- [28:15]
John Lovett
I do.
- [28:16]
Adam Rippon
It was. I mean, honestly, it was beautiful.
- [28:18]
John Lovett
Okay. Okay.
- [28:20]
Adam Rippon
How old were you when you started to like sushi, by the way?
- [28:23]
John Lovett
I remember the first time I ate sushi.
- [28:26]
Adam Rippon
Me too. I do, too. And I was completely, like. I was basically made to be the town fool for not liking it in front of a group of people who loved it.
- [28:34]
John Lovett
Well, to this day, like, my father will not eat sushi.
- [28:37]
Adam Rippon
Oh, my mom likes, goes, I love it. And then she goes, I'll get teriyaki chicken. Like, come on.
- [28:42]
John Lovett
Well, he won't eat. He'll maybe try a California rol. Tried it, but he just really will not eat the raw fish part, which.
- [28:48]
Adam Rippon
Is just cream cheese. Well, isn't it. Isn't it California?
- [28:52]
John Lovett
That's a Philadelphia roll.
- [28:53]
Adam Rippon
What's a California roll?
- [28:55]
John Lovett
Crab.
- [28:56]
Adam Rippon
Oh, sorry. Yeah.
- [28:57]
John Lovett
No, but it's cooked crab, I think. But. So I like. I remember shrimp.
- [29:03]
Adam Rippon
No. Fig. No, it's fig.
- [29:08]
John Lovett
It's fig.
- [29:08]
Adam Rippon
Yeah. Fake crab. Fake crab.
- [29:11]
John Lovett
It can be fake crab. It's often fake crab. Yeah.
- [29:13]
Adam Rippon
I think imitation crab.
- [29:14]
John Lovett
Imitation crab.
- [29:14]
Adam Rippon
Where I'm from there. Yeah. It was always imit.
- [29:18]
John Lovett
Yeah.
- [29:18]
Adam Rippon
Yeah.
- [29:19]
John Lovett
In most places, I think.
- [29:20]
Adam Rippon
Okay, let's continue yes.
- [29:22]
John Lovett
Oh. So I just remember I. Oh, it was. I'm sorry. It was.
- [29:25]
Adam Rippon
No, don't ever apologize.
- [29:27]
John Lovett
The. It was with one of the cool kids. And it was, you know, you have like. I did not have a lot of friends growing up, but then I like, went to a summer, like a summer college program and one of the cool kids in that program invited me to a birthday party in New York City. And like, I'm from Long island. And I remember we went and watched the Sixth Sense in theater. So somebody can check that date and we can. I think that's when it was. And then after we had sushi for the first time. And I remember like being like, nervous, but I was trying to be cool. And so I think I admitted that I hadn't had it before, maybe. But either way, I just like looked.
- [30:04]
Adam Rippon
Around the table, which is so brave, by the way.
- [30:06]
John Lovett
Watched. I probably didn't. I probably didn't. Now that I think about it. I don't remember. I remembered that it was the first time I had sushi, but I'm sure I just tried to pretend, but I don't know how I could have because I wouldn't have been able to use chopsticks. So I don't know what I did. But I remember like seeing everybody eat it and I was like, here we go. And just I remember being like, that's what sushi tastes like. And being like, I think I can like it. I want to like it because it was cool.
- [30:33]
Adam Rippon
Yeah.
- [30:34]
John Lovett
And then I remember going home being like, I had sushi today.
- [30:36]
Adam Rippon
August, mom and dad, 1999.
- [30:39]
John Lovett
Yeah, that's roughly when it would have been 17 day.
- [30:42]
Adam Rippon
You had sushi. Yeah, I remember. So I had such like a horrible interaction with fish sticks growing up. And so just that like fishy taste really threw me into kind of like a tailspin. I didn't do. I hate fish sticks.
- [30:59]
John Lovett
I hated them.
- [31:00]
Adam Rippon
What fish is that? White.
- [31:02]
John Lovett
It's very white fish. Right? Like a pollock. Is that a kind of fish?
- [31:07]
Adam Rippon
I. Yeah, let's go with it.
- [31:10]
John Lovett
And the. Yeah, I remember it was always when I was at like day camp as a kid. It was like, oh, I smell it.
- [31:17]
Adam Rippon
Did you do a lot of camps, by the way?
- [31:20]
John Lovett
It's come up twice. I did go to camp and so I remember being. This is just, I guess a coincidence, but I remember being like very young and smelling the fish sticks at camp being like, ugh, it's fish stick day. That sucks.
- [31:31]
Adam Rippon
Uh huh.
- [31:31]
John Lovett
That sucks.
- [31:33]
Adam Rippon
That's the long island coming out.
- [31:35]
John Lovett
That's right.
- [31:36]
Adam Rippon
Yeah, I just. I remember that first, like, when it hit me, it just. It wasn't something that I could do.
- [31:42]
John Lovett
Not for me.
- [31:43]
Adam Rippon
No.
- [31:43]
John Lovett
Never was.
- [31:43]
Adam Rippon
Never was something that is for you. So I mentioned that you're one of the co founders of Crooked Media. You're also the host of Love It Or Leave It. Critically acclaimed. Personally acclaimed as well.
- [31:54]
John Lovett
And you've been a guest.
- [31:55]
Adam Rippon
I have.
- [31:56]
John Lovett
Several times.
- [31:56]
Adam Rippon
Yes, I have. I was a guest host when.
- [31:59]
John Lovett
That's right. When I was out of town.
- [32:00]
Adam Rippon
Yes.
- [32:01]
John Lovett
Not being on Survivor.
- [32:02]
Adam Rippon
No, no, no, no. And you are also one of the co hosts of Hunter Biden's favorite podcast, Pod Save America.
- [32:10]
John Lovett
That's right.
- [32:11]
Adam Rippon
Yeah. When you guys started Crooked Media, did you plan for it to be as, like, big as it's become or as influential as it is now?
- [32:27]
John Lovett
We didn't plan for anything.
- [32:28]
Adam Rippon
Yeah. So what was the. Was it just the whole Trump coming into office?
- [32:34]
John Lovett
So we had done a podcast. So Jon Favreau and Dan Pfeiffer had known Bill Simmons, and so they started a podcast at the Ringer at the same time. Tommy, John and I. Tommy Vitor. John and I were talking about doing some kind of political show together. It ends up that Tommy and I join and start doing the podcast with Dan and John at the Ringer as almost a hobby in the run up to the 2016 election. Just as a place to vent and talk about politics. It gained a following. But I was a TV writer at the time. John Atami had a business, Dan had his own career.
- [33:10]
Adam Rippon
Because you had the show 1600.
- [33:11]
John Lovett
I had a show 1600 pen. One perfect season on NBC.
- [33:14]
Adam Rippon
One perfect episode of Survivor. One perfect season.
- [33:18]
John Lovett
Listen, you gotta keep moving. Just keep moving.
- [33:21]
Adam Rippon
You gotta just be perfect. You gotta get it right the first time.
- [33:23]
John Lovett
Gotta get it right.
- [33:24]
Adam Rippon
You always do.
- [33:25]
John Lovett
But so after Trump wins, we all had this feeling like politics was really important to all of us. And so many people were asking us, like, what happens now? What do we do? And we had no idea. We'd never been in a circumstance like this. We were surprised and had lulled our sense into. We'd lulled ourselves into a faith that it just couldn't happen. Like, of course it can't happen. And the polling was closer to 5050 than it was to 90 10. But you just believe. You get to believe. And because we didn't know what to do, we thought, well, a lot of people want to figure out what to do. Let's create a place where we do that, where we all admit we don't have the answers. And we have to figure out a way to get out of this. And that led to Pod Save America and from their crooked media. And we didn't have a business plan. We just had a sense that the political media landscape was broken, that there was a lot of right wing coverage and then there was a lot of mainstream analysis, a lot of great journalism, incredible investigative journalism, a lot of great people doing great work. But a lot of political analysis was based on the assumption that everybody watching is just an observer. And everybody watching already has their perfectly formed views and understands politics completely. And so what is analysis of politics on television? It's like everybody watching has binoculars. And America is like a plane of the Serengeti where you're watching like a cheetah and an antelope run around. It's like, no, no, no, we're not observers. Like, we're all participants and we need to be treated as participants. And we need to remember our agency and find places, even after a terrible loss, that we have places where we can have an impact to figure out how to fight our way out of it. And that's what turned out. There was a lot of people who felt the same way. And Pod Save America develops the following. We launched this broader network, Tommy does Pod Save the World. And I launched Love it or Leave it. And a bunch of other great hosts come on. And we launched Pod Save the People. And with friends like these. And that leads to hysteria and strict scrutiny and kind of builds out this network. And we knew how to talk about politics and joke around about it and figure out how to interview guests, but we didn't know how to build a company. And so great people came and helped us figure out what to do. And you know, here we are like eight years later, which is what, nine years later.
- [35:45]
Adam Rippon
And isn't that crazy?
- [35:47]
John Lovett
It is. And like, we've learned a lot, obviously. Like, we've had some wins, some losses. The losses. Oh, the losses. But even as I think, like more people have woken up to politics and more people are paying attention to politics. Like, the right has gotten stronger. The Republican Party has become more radicalized and beholden to just one person. And the upshot of that is we need to figure out a way collectively to build a big pro democracy movement in which everyone from anti Trump Republicans to the furthest left progressives, see themselves as being part of one big team fighting for democracy. And that's really hard. It is hard to have a big tent. It is hard to always see everyone as allies. It is hard to be generous. It is Hard to go into that uncomfortable place where you realize there's somebody who has views you despise, but you need to work with and you need to see past your differences. Like, that is really hard. But we have from the beginning tried to build a place where we can have those hard conversations in a way that is fun and entertaining and doesn't treat politics like a horrible slogan that like. And doesn't treat the news like homework. Because if we want to be a party that could win, you have to be having a party that people would want to attend. And so often completely and so often, like this is. Look, the right is filled with a ton of bile, but on the left, at times we can be kind of sour and self righteous and annoying. And I get where it comes from. I understand the hurt and pain of what it's like to watch your country embrace somebody as awful as Donald Trump and feel as though there's not enough people around you who understand the threat the same way you do. I feel like how that can be a little bit kind of crazy making especially when you feel like the media isn't helping enough and that people aren't feeling as engaged as you do. But we have to kind of persuade people to see it the way that we see it. And that requires openness and joy and joking around. And that's what we're trying to do.
- [38:00]
Adam Rippon
I mean, I remember when I started listening to Pod Save America and it was like shortly after you guys had started because I didn't know like what to do. I'd never been like a super into politics. And I even feel that like when I was younger, it wasn't something that felt as divisive as it is now. And I felt like I needed to go to a place where I just could learn a little bit more about it. I wanted to learn more about what I could do. And that's like what Pod Save America was to me. And I feel like, you know, even when we were talking, I was like joking a little bit earlier about the Hunter, Biden's favorite podcast where he did this like interview with Andrew Callahan and he mentions the Pod Save America guys when he's talking about his, his dad, former President Joe Biden, dropping out of the presidential race. But your podcast has become one of those. And crooked media has become one of those like voices where it feels like it's one of the leading voices of the Democratic Party. Are you trying to be that? Are you trying to be just like a, like, are you trying to be that party where people want to attend that party, and it just becomes a place of, like, real information.
- [39:13]
John Lovett
So how we see it is we want to be a home for all of the big questions and debates that the biggest pro democracy movement is happening. Where the policy debates are happening, where the political debates are happening, where the strategic debates are happening, where we interviewed every presidential candidate in the run up to 2020, we try to have candidates on, especially when there are contentious issues that are being debated nationally. And so that's what we want to be. We want to be a home where everybody feels like they can come if they're part of that movement. But as part of that, yeah, we're going to have an honest conversation about Joe Biden's performance on the debate and why it means he has to step aside. Part of the promise of it, of the shows of the network, is we're going to be generous with our allies. That's important. But isn't it obvious now, a decade into Trump, that, like, if we're not going to be honest about our own problems on the left, we're not going to get out of this. Like. Like, we're sorry that it was personally offensive to some people, but we all saw what we saw on the debate, and so we have to be honest about it. And if you don't like it, that's fine. Criticize us. Like, I don't contraband go off. Like, have, you know, say what you want to say. We can argue against it and we can let people decide. But, yeah, I feel really proud of what we built at Crooked. And if there are moments where the honest conversation that happens, not just between us as hosts, but between us and guests has value, it's because we need that space. We really do. And I'm glad that we can build it and keep building it. That's part of what I think has become so necessary, because there have been moments, like, where, well, we can't do any infighting. Trump is so scary and so bad. Like, how could we have infighting? And like, no, no, Like, I agree. There are moments where you have to say, all right, it's time for everybody.
- [41:22]
Adam Rippon
To figure out, let's just rally around this. Like, we're past the point of trying to nitpick it.
- [41:27]
John Lovett
Right, right. Like, 100 days to get Kamala from being the nominee to the White House when she's starting out so far behind and is saddled with a lot of baggage from the Biden administration. We can do recrimination later. We can do our fears and anxieties and concerns later. If There are places where we see a need, where strategists and smart people want to talk about ways that the campaign can do better. Sure. But let's not fuck around. We're in the final days here. Let's fight and win. But after an election, oh, let the infighting begin. Like, of course we need it. It's not always the most maybe exciting or enthusiasm creating moments. But you know what? Like, it's cathartic, and we got to talk about it and figure out where we stand and where we're right and where we're wrong and who. You know, who's making the best argument, because that's how we figure out how to sharpen what we do for the next fight.
- [42:20]
Adam Rippon
I do have to say those 100 days, what was 107 days of Kamala Harris running for president, were some of the best days I've ever felt politically. I felt, to be fair, I truly felt so, like, oh, my God, I'm behind this, like, monumental movement right now. It just felt. It felt very like Obama getting ready to be president in 2008.
- [42:50]
John Lovett
It. I think, like, I look back, like, we were very critical of Joe Biden before the debate. We had talked at length about how important it was for him to address questions about his age, how much he had not been able to successfully do that, how that was his central question. That, and the fact that people were angry and holding him responsible for inflation and problems in the economy. And that there was a lot of defensiveness and a lot of trying to claim things were better, which meant you were telling people they were wrong about how they felt, which is never a good idea in politics. But once he steps aside and all that enthusiasm comes up behind Kamala Harris. Yeah, it felt like it was like one last heist. We're all getting together, and we've got this mission, and it's short and it's tight, and we know what the goal is, and we have a deadline. Let's all do this together, and it's going to be hard. And we're starting from behind, and it felt that way the whole time. But just the fact that there was that kind of organic enthusiasm that appeared, and all these people that were so talented and so smart and so creative and ready to put that energy behind Kamala, it does also highlight how bad the situation was before. And I feel like I was honest about it, while also understanding that if Joe Biden was the nominee, we had to do what we could to get him over the finish line. But I look back on it, and I think even if I thought Joe Biden was up to do the job and would have done a better job than Donald Trump, I don't think I had fully internalized just how much harm there was in the fact that he wasn't a good communicator and how much we desperately needed a good communicator and how much we paid, not just in campaigning, but just in governing and as a movement of people that want to stop authoritarianism, to not have a ferocious speaker who could, day by day by day, take to the microphone and just fight and argue for not just Democratic policies, but Democratic values. He just wasn't up to it. At his best as a speaker, not talking about his capacities, but as a speaker, the best you could hope for is he would fight to a draw. And I regret that I accepted that or that I wasn't able to see the harm of that, even if he was able, in moments, to kind of, whether a State of the Union or other moments, kind of like, succeed on his own terms. So that's what I took away from that. But, yeah, it was awesome. It felt like we were really fighting, and I was terrified that she was going to lose. I had not really convinced myself that she could win. I thought we were really behind. I thought it was really hard. It was hard for her to be somebody new while being Joe Biden's vice president. But by the end, I had even just in the final days, convinced myself that we were gonna do it. Just the final day.
- [45:44]
Adam Rippon
I mean, once.
- [45:45]
John Lovett
Just so I get punched in the face by reality.
- [45:47]
Adam Rippon
Once I got my camo, like, Harris Walls hat in the mail, I was like, it's. We've got it. Yeah, that's where I really. Where do you still have your.
- [45:57]
John Lovett
Of course. Of course. It's in. It's in a bin. You know, you have that bin.
- [46:01]
Adam Rippon
I have. It's. Mine is literally in a bin, too. It's like, I'm gonna.
- [46:04]
John Lovett
That bin of things you can't get rid of but you can't wear.
- [46:08]
Adam Rippon
I did have to.
- [46:09]
John Lovett
It could pop out. It could pop out in, like, a couple years. 10 years.
- [46:11]
Adam Rippon
Oh, I think 10 years is, like, when it'll. That's. You take it out again.
- [46:14]
John Lovett
Because someone is gonna find the exact right moment to be the first person. Like, it's gonna be someone very cool.
- [46:22]
Adam Rippon
Totally.
- [46:22]
John Lovett
Is gonna show up on, like, in an unexpected place in that hat and be like, God, they were first. They did it.
- [46:27]
Adam Rippon
Yeah. At the VMAs. Like, in 10 years from now, somebody will be wearing that hat?
- [46:31]
John Lovett
Yeah.
- [46:31]
Adam Rippon
That's why I, like, still have it. My Hillary Clinton T shirt. I had to throw that away.
- [46:36]
John Lovett
Okay.
- [46:37]
Adam Rippon
That was like. That was an awful day.
- [46:40]
John Lovett
I am so bad about getting rid of keepsakes. I'm trying to find ways to, like, store them without keeping them so close to my day to day clothes, you know?
- [46:49]
Adam Rippon
Yeah. Oh, I have like a. I have a box of, like, clothes that I. That mean something to me from, like, a place and time that I keep. But it's not with, like, my clothes. Cause I'm not gonna wear those clothes. Those clothes are for memories, not for wearings.
- [47:05]
John Lovett
Right. I know. And then part of me think, well, the memory isn't in the clothes. The memory's in your brain, so what are you doing? But then I do feel like if I get rid of the clothes. When you pick up an item, it's time capsule. It evokes the memory. And I think, well, if I don't have the item, is the memory going to be lost? Whether it's in there or not, if I don't have the means to revive it? And so I have trouble getting rid of things. And I think, well, why don't I take pictures of these things? Because the picture would do it. But I can't. And so I have. It's not a bin. I have so much.
- [47:33]
Adam Rippon
You're being coy.
- [47:34]
John Lovett
I have so much stuff.
- [47:35]
Adam Rippon
I'm good at getting rid of things.
- [47:36]
John Lovett
I know, I know. There's a. There's a. I have. Let's. I am intimidated by you.
- [47:42]
Adam Rippon
Oh, good. That's how I want it.
- [47:45]
John Lovett
I am intimidated by you in a few specific ways.
- [47:48]
Adam Rippon
Okay.
- [47:49]
John Lovett
One is there are people that. You have this quality. Actually, you know who else have this quality is Huma Abedin, who was Hillary Clinton's longtime chief of staff.
- [48:00]
Adam Rippon
Okay. And I feel like I'm in good company so far.
- [48:03]
John Lovett
You'll like what I'm about to say.
- [48:04]
Adam Rippon
All right. Please go on.
- [48:05]
John Lovett
And no matter what was happening, no matter where she was, no matter how long she'd been up, no matter how far they'd been traveling, Huma always looked completely magically put together. As if, like, I'm blushing. I'm gonna pass out. And neat and tidy, like the clothes had just come off a steamer. No matter what. And for me, I don't know what it is about my personality, my physical plant, but I put on clothes and I instantly look like I woke up in them. I do. It's not true right now. Like, I put this on right before I came here. I am messy. I am instantly and always a little bit messy. And you never are. You never are. Look at this. It's so put together all the time. All the time. And so I find that intimidating. And then that carries over into every time I see a video of you in your house, and it's like, did you invent the Container Store? You have a level of organization, and you're on top of things, and you're so meticulous. I really respect the way that you're meticulous. And I am not a meticulous person. I can be an intense person. I could be a very hardworking person, but I'm like a brute instrument. You're so precise, and you know where things are, and you have systems and plans for how to put things in your place. Like, even your. Like, even the jewelry you're wearing and the way that it is coordinated together is so intentional. And then, like, I walk in to this fucking studio and like, oh, we're doing browns today. And you thought about a brown outfit and how you were gonna incorporate browns and why you wore gold jewelry and, like, all of it together. I like, oh, you thought about this so carefully today. What would it be like to be a kind of person like that? I find that intimidating. Ari Shapiro, who was a longtime NPR correspondent and host, he hosted All Things Considered. I remember having this feeling with him, because I would go over to his house, and he would be like, would you like some? Oh, look at this. This is pear cordial. Eight months ago, I put the branch of a pear tree into this jar so that today we would have pears inside the jar so that I could make a cordial using it. And it's like I lost my keys. You know what I'm saying?
- [50:24]
Adam Rippon
Yeah. How did you think of that? Eight months prior? Right, right.
- [50:27]
John Lovett
But I think you could do that.
- [50:28]
Adam Rippon
I think you could do that.
- [50:30]
John Lovett
Do you garden?
- [50:31]
Adam Rippon
I don't garden.
- [50:32]
John Lovett
You will.
- [50:34]
Adam Rippon
You will find it. Yeah, no, you will find it. It will find you then. That's how gardening works. It does find you. But I'm going to tell you that, like, I set myself up for success by, like, so this all. I don't know when this all started, but basically, like, I only started to, like, buy clothes in a few different colors, and it's usually, like, browns and greens. So no matter what, I'm just grabbing things. Right? But it's, like, in my palette. So I've set myself up. I've set myself up. So if it's something I just, like, don't Feel like putting something together. Bam. It's all brown.
- [51:07]
John Lovett
Yeah, no, I know. And just the way you all that like. I understand that for you, you know the formula. Well, I know that what you're describing is here's how I, it took these steps to create this way in which it feels breezy to me. But what you just described is an Everest.
- [51:22]
Adam Rippon
For me it's, I did describe like a years long journey to get to.
- [51:27]
John Lovett
Where I, I walk into my like, like I like look at like my shoes.
- [51:38]
Adam Rippon
Yeah.
- [51:39]
John Lovett
And like I like open the closet and I like. Or like I, you know, go into the, like I have like. Let me just take this. Do we, do we edit? Are we editing?
- [51:49]
Adam Rippon
Yeah, for sure. Start over. Okay. How about you go into the closet, you look at your shoes.
- [51:54]
John Lovett
I go like, I look in the closet and I just hate every item of clothing that I have.
- [52:01]
Adam Rippon
I hate relatable.
- [52:02]
John Lovett
I hate. I have like. And it's, there's. And I think, oh, I know what I want. I want to wear that one pair of pants, but they're gone because they're in a pile of pants I don't wear anymore. Nothing works with anything. Nothing goes together. And so I ended up wearing like the same three or four T shirts and pants that I run into the ground. Like that's what I do. That's how I, that's how I put together a look.
- [52:28]
Adam Rippon
You just keep what hasn't been. You find what's being run into the ground and you make sure you run it.
- [52:34]
John Lovett
I know, I know, I know.
- [52:35]
Adam Rippon
I. If I'm not using stuff I. It's immediately like I put something on. Like it's on a, like a no fly list. Right. Like so if I'm not wearing it for a while, it goes into purgatory. Closed purgatory.
- [52:46]
John Lovett
I mean like this is amazing.
- [52:48]
Adam Rippon
And by the way, like so many rules though. It's exhausting.
- [52:51]
John Lovett
But you're not exhausted. You're not exhausted.
- [52:53]
Adam Rippon
I've never been more well rested. You know what I'm saying?
- [52:57]
John Lovett
I know, I know, I know. And I, this is why like this is how you become a world champion figure skater too. It's tied in. It's fucking tied in. You know it is. You know it is.
- [53:06]
Adam Rippon
I, yeah, I do. But you know what, you just have to. You basically just like I said before, you just trick yourself and you set yourself up so that you can't. And then you can't fail. Then you're Huma.
- [53:19]
John Lovett
Right?
- [53:20]
Adam Rippon
And I am.
- [53:21]
John Lovett
You are. You really are.
- [53:23]
Adam Rippon
We have questions that we that get sent into the podcast.
- [53:26]
John Lovett
Okay.
- [53:27]
Adam Rippon
Can I do one of the questions with you, please? Okay, so we have our first question. We have two today. This is from Kimberly from Houston, Texas. She said, hi, Adam. I just saw a clip of this Fox News interview show up on my feed. I don't know if you saw this, but Amy Coney Barrett gets asked about the 22nd Amendment, and the interviewer says that it's only two terms. Then she coquettishly looks at him and says, true, that is what it says in a way that feels like a threat against humanity. Also, she has a book coming out, Listening to the Law. Please give thoughts.
- [54:07]
John Lovett
So I haven't seen that clip. Uh huh.
- [54:10]
Adam Rippon
Uh, I do have to say the title, Listening to the Law sounds like a haunting book. It sounds like a spell. Right.
- [54:19]
John Lovett
Well, you know, their move is to say they aren't. Right. Like the book is not called I'll tell you what the law is.
- [54:29]
Adam Rippon
No, I'll listen.
- [54:31]
John Lovett
That you're listening. Right. And that all that, the conservative mindset on the Supreme Court, their originalism is not that they dictate what the Constitution says in a way that comports with their worldview. It's that they simply listen to it and then share what they've heard as if the Constitution is a podcast. But that's of course not what they're doing. And look, I think Amy Coney Barrett is a more intellectually honest person than someone like Samuel Alito. I think she genuinely believes what she believes. I think it's harmful. I don't agree with it, but I think that there's a genuineness to what she believes. I hope. And again, I haven't seen the clip. I hope what that coyness is, is a person who does not want to offer a constitutional judgment. But look, the fact that we were even in a place where we're flirting with a president trying to remain in office again after he tried to remain in office the first time he lost is really alarming. And just for anyone who's worried about this, you're right to have a really strange fear, which is at once feeling like your fears are completely valid and justified, while also knowing that to express them is to sound a little bit unhinged. Because the thing about fighting a rising right wing authoritarian movement is your reactions either feel too early or they feel too late. That is the nature of it completely. And that's really hard. And so when you see a clip like that, I understand why it makes you feel really, really worried. And it is hard to know when to be thinking openly and carefully about hypotheticals. And when you can drive yourself batty with all the different terrible ways it can go. When the problems right in front of us are very big and hard enough.
- [56:37]
Adam Rippon
Yeah, I think. Good answer for Kimber Lee.
- [56:40]
John Lovett
Is it not Kimberly? It's Kimberly.
- [56:41]
Adam Rippon
Kimber Lee. She wrote Kimber Space Lee.
- [56:44]
John Lovett
I like that.
- [56:45]
Adam Rippon
Me too. So does. I think that means that her first name Kimber, middle name Lee, or was it always supposed to. I guess a question for her.
- [56:53]
John Lovett
It could be a Betty Lou situation.
- [56:55]
Adam Rippon
Betty Lou. That is a. That's a cute name.
- [56:58]
John Lovett
I like the name.
- [56:58]
Adam Rippon
Have you met any Betty Lou's?
- [57:00]
John Lovett
I don't believe so, no.
- [57:02]
Adam Rippon
All right, next question from Jason. Just Jason.
- [57:05]
John Lovett
Just Jason.
- [57:05]
Adam Rippon
Just Jason. Yo, Adam. Love it already. I wonder if you're as chronically online as I am. If you are. Have you seen this clip of Theo Vaughn talking to the Amish kid where he asks him if he knows any Amish people that have add, period? Have you seen this clip?
- [57:25]
John Lovett
I haven't.
- [57:25]
Adam Rippon
Okay, please, may I explain it to you? Okay. Theo Vaughn. Are you familiar with Theo Vaughn? I'm vaguely familiar with Theo Vaughn. When I see Theo Vaughan, I will be honest. Every time I look at him, I do think every muscle in his face must be working complete overtime. Doesn't it look strong? There is no gua sha. There is no fascia release.
- [57:54]
John Lovett
I think you. First of all, I haven't thought about it that way. But I think what you're really saying.
- [57:58]
Adam Rippon
Please.
- [57:59]
John Lovett
What you're really saying is he has a kind of. He does A kind of vacant stare. But I think beneath that, he's a really smart guy.
- [58:10]
Adam Rippon
I agree that he's smart and pretty. Cause I've seen some of his clips pop up on my feedback. Clever.
- [58:18]
John Lovett
He's smart. And even that question is a really good question. It's silly. It's kind of vaguely. I don't know, it can seem. I don't know, kind of naive or kind of goofy. But if you think about the question as being purposefully obtuse, it's a really good question. It's a really good question whether or not it's a joke in how he's asking it. And it gets at something quite real. We have tons of people with adhd. Is it because they have a specific disorder? Or is it because our world is not built for normal people having normal levels of concentration and discipline? Because we decided that kids should spend all day sitting in chairs? And when a lot of people want to build things with their hands and run around outside. And I think that that's a completely reasonable question. How about that?
- [59:11]
Adam Rippon
I think that was a beautiful answer, Especially how I started with. He has a really strong looking face.
- [59:18]
John Lovett
Yeah. You think? Yeah, he's not doing enough. Gua sha. Are you doing gua sha?
- [59:21]
Adam Rippon
I've gua sha'd. Yeah, but I don't. I don't. In the, like, present tense. Gua sha.
- [59:28]
John Lovett
Here's an interesting question about gua sha. Why do we start and then stop? Do we think it does something? Do we not think it does something? Because, like, if you thought.
- [59:36]
Adam Rippon
What do you mean, start and stop?
- [59:37]
John Lovett
Like, why are you not. If it is something you tried and thought would be good to do, why are you not doing it as part of your routine every day?
- [59:45]
Adam Rippon
It just takes time.
- [59:47]
John Lovett
Right. But not that much time. No.
- [59:49]
Adam Rippon
And it's like, no, it does not take that much time.
- [59:51]
John Lovett
And do we think it does something? I think it does. And then I stopped doing it.
- [59:55]
Adam Rippon
I do think it does something. I mean, what they say it does is that basically, you know, to kind of make a long story short, makes your face look. Look thinner. Right. But the idea is that it's, like, helping to. Like lymphatic drainage. Yes.
- [60:11]
John Lovett
Which is a term that now can mean whatever you want it to mean and can cure whatever you have.
- [60:16]
Adam Rippon
It's the best medical term that we've kind of now embraced as a nation. And there's few things that we've all embraced on both sides of the aisle.
- [60:25]
John Lovett
That's right.
- [60:26]
Adam Rippon
And lymphatic drainage is sort of the common denominator where we're all collectively have gone. Yeah, we could. We could be draining that.
- [60:34]
John Lovett
We gotta get that out of there.
- [60:35]
Adam Rippon
We have to be moving that around. Do you. There's a new thing now. People are using, like, brushes, and they're like, oh, this is so much easier than the stone. Even though this, like, using, like, a stone is, like, an ancient tradition. Thoughts?
- [60:49]
John Lovett
I haven't seen that. And I'll try it. Sure.
- [60:52]
Adam Rippon
I want to try it, too. Because sometimes you have to, like, you gotta slick up the stone. I don't. I'm not.
- [60:58]
John Lovett
And I like to slick it up.
- [60:59]
Adam Rippon
No, not with that feels gross. No, because then you go. It just. It feels more like effort.
- [61:03]
John Lovett
Yeah, that's right.
- [61:04]
Adam Rippon
That's part of the reason why I don't do it, like, a lot.
- [61:07]
John Lovett
Yeah, same.
- [61:08]
Adam Rippon
I should do it more.
- [61:09]
John Lovett
I don't know. I don't know.
- [61:11]
Adam Rippon
No, nobody knows.
- [61:11]
John Lovett
Nobody knows.
- [61:12]
Adam Rippon
I have one question for you. Okay, completely unrelated. Should I get the new iPhone? What do you think? I have a 13 max. This is like, it's an. It's now like on the retro side, I don't have. I have like the old charger.
- [61:29]
John Lovett
So I think, look, moving past the multiple cables, that's a good goal. I would like to get to the place in my life where I just have the one kind of cable because I got my laptop cable, I got my phone cable, my ipods are. My airpods are the old one, you know, it's a mess. It's a mess.
- [61:45]
Adam Rippon
So wait, your AirPods are the iPhone?
- [61:47]
John Lovett
Yeah, the original lightning cable. Still. Cause they're my old AirPods that went with my old iPhone. But this phone has the new connector.
- [61:53]
Adam Rippon
Upgraded on the phone side.
- [61:54]
John Lovett
I find it all pretty embarrassing the way they try to convince us that they've done something new with the phone.
- [61:59]
Adam Rippon
Like, I feel like I'm gonna fall for it.
- [62:02]
John Lovett
When is the last time any of us noticed a difference between the fucking pictures? They're like this new 48 megapixel super wide double lens with colors like you wouldn't believe. And then they're like, now there's a new airphone, iPhone. Air. And boy, is it super thin. Except for the camera. So then it's not thin. And so it's like, okay, now I got the iPhone.
- [62:23]
Adam Rippon
Air is where I do draw the line.
- [62:26]
John Lovett
What is the thinness doing if the camera sticks out? That's what I don't understand. Like, just practically speaking, it goes in your pocket. Now if it was just a super thin brick all the way through, like, that seems awesome to me, but there's the fucking camera. So then what? Like, you have a super thin phone, but is the camera just like, be super. Like, I want to be practical, be specific. When I put that phone in my pocket, is the camera facing out into the world? So there's a little circle in my pants, or is it facing inside my leg? Which then means it's not really. It's creating the same profile as if it were thicker because the camera is touching me and so it's pushing out, you know, it's like, what are you talking about? What is this for? What are we doing here?
- [63:08]
Adam Rippon
I don't know what the thinness, I mean, it's also like. But it's not that much smaller, right? Like it's.
- [63:15]
John Lovett
The phone peaked a long time ago. These are incremental differences. All the designs of all the phone companies of like the Androids and all the different designs, it's a brick with a flat glass front and a smooth back every. Some years they round the edges. Some years they don't round the edges.
- [63:30]
Adam Rippon
They just run smooth back. Love that.
- [63:33]
John Lovett
That's right.
- [63:34]
Adam Rippon
I feel like the phone. I mean, you're right. There is no sort of like, amazing moment of like, getting the new phone. Like, there was. Was like. I mean, I remember when I was switching brand, it was my job. It was Erickson. Then I was doing the Nokia. I got a BlackBerry Motorola Chocolate and that just those first few days of like, how does it work? Like, you're just trying to figure it all out. That was like unbridled joy. Pure bliss.
- [63:59]
John Lovett
It was fun. But, yeah, they really haven't. They've struggled. So. I don't really care if you get a new phone or not. And I think you shouldn't care either, to be honest. I'm sorry to say.
- [64:10]
Adam Rippon
No, it's okay. I started and I promise I'll let you leave after this. I've started not using a case on the phone for the past, like, year. Have you ever tried that before? It feels illegal.
- [64:21]
John Lovett
I do it every time now, you may notice I have a case on my phone.
- [64:25]
Adam Rippon
Yeah, I'm looking at the case.
- [64:26]
John Lovett
So what I do every time, which is so stupid, is I don't use a case until I've cracked the phone so thoroughly that in order to keep it from shedding glass in my pocket, I throw a case on it. This phone is shattered on the back. Shattered. I can't take it out of this case anymore. It stays in here. It is a broken phone. And so that's what I do. I use it as long as I can till it is no longer usable without the case.
- [64:55]
Adam Rippon
Wow.
- [64:55]
John Lovett
Yeah. It's stupid. It's stupid.
- [64:58]
Adam Rippon
Are you a dropper?
- [64:59]
John Lovett
Huh? Yeah, of course. Of course. Instantly. Instantly.
- [65:03]
Adam Rippon
See, I always have a bag with me. I always throw it in a bag.
- [65:05]
John Lovett
Of course you do.
- [65:06]
Adam Rippon
You will get. You know me.
- [65:07]
John Lovett
You got your own topic. Intimidating. Yeah, that's right.
- [65:10]
Adam Rippon
John, thank you so much for coming on Intrusive thoughts today.
- [65:13]
John Lovett
This was fun.
- [65:14]
Adam Rippon
This was fun. Come back anytime, please. You're welcome. Literally anytime.
- [65:18]
John Lovett
I love that.
- [65:19]
Adam Rippon
Maybe we'll get you a new phone back at least. I'm gonna run this.
- [65:22]
John Lovett
This guy's gonna be. I'm gonna run this phone to the ground until it dies. Please. That's how I feel about that.
- [65:29]
Adam Rippon
Yeah. Like your clothes.
- [65:30]
John Lovett
Like my clothes. Drive through. Can't have nice things.
- [65:33]
Adam Rippon
No, but you are a nice thing. Thank you for coming. Than.
- [65:41]
John Lovett
Sam.