Podcast Summary: Adam Schiff, Hakeem Jeffries, and the Framers Weigh In on Impeachment

The Political Scene | The New Yorker
Host: Dorothy Wickenden
Guest: Jelani Cobb
Date: January 23, 2020

Overview

This episode of "The Political Scene" examines the Senate impeachment trial of President Donald Trump, its deep historical roots, and the challenges posed by hyper-partisanship in the U.S. constitutional system. Executive editor Dorothy Wickenden is joined by New Yorker staff writer and historian Jelani Cobb to discuss the framers’ original intent behind impeachment, lessons from 19th-century partisanship, the contemporary Democratic dilemma, and standout moments from the ongoing trial—particularly a powerful speech by House manager Hakeem Jeffries.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Framers’ Intent and the Blind Spot

• Impeachment’s Purpose
  Adam Schiff's opening argument frames impeachment in the language of the Constitution’s framers, warning against a leader who places self-interest above the nation:

  "For a man who would subvert the interests of the nation to pursue his own interests... for a man, in short, who would be a king. ... because Donald J. Trump ... has acted precisely as Hamilton and his contemporaries feared."
  — Adam Schiff (02:07)

• Founding Suspicion of Parties
  Jelani Cobb explains that the framers feared political parties (“factions”) would destroy the republic. Hamilton, Madison, and Jefferson all expressed worries about partisanship, but paradoxically, their own legacies gave rise to the first American parties:

  "It's kind of a blind spot here... Hamilton does make reference to it in Federalist 65... but there's no kind of clearly elucidated idea around how you avoid partisanship."
  — Jelani Cobb (03:42)

Party Politics, Historical Echoes, and Impeachment

• Rise of Party Rivalry
  They recount how America's first party-centered election in 1828 (Jackson vs. John Quincy Adams) was marked by bitterness and accusations of a "stolen" victory—a theme resonant today:

  "Andrew Jackson feels that the election of 1824 was stolen from him... Except that in our system, this was seen as outrageous, as corrupt..."
  — Jelani Cobb (05:58)

• Echoes in the Trump Era
  Parallels are drawn between Andrew Jackson's complaints of corruption and Trump’s rhetoric, as well as the use of presidential defiance:

  "Jackson talked about a stolen election. Trump today would talk about it being rigged."
  — Dorothy Wickenden (08:43)
  Jelani highlights Jackson’s refusal to enforce a Supreme Court decision as a precursor to current executive defiance.

The Impeachment Trial: Present Dynamics

• Democratic Dilemma and Electoral Implications
  With the Iowa caucuses approaching and many Democratic candidates tied up in the Senate, the party faces a conundrum: how to defeat Trump amid fears he’ll use impeachment as a rallying tool, just as Clinton did:

  "Democrats have this existential challenge... a sense of gloom among Democratic voters that Trump will get off... and win a second term."
  — Dorothy Wickenden (11:00)

  Jelani counters somewhat:

  "There are also reasons... to be optimistic. ...The idea that Bill Clinton was dishonest... They didn't think was an existential threat to American democracy. ...What Donald Trump is accused of ... places American democracy... in jeopardy."
  — Jelani Cobb (11:53)

• Was Impeachment Worth It?
  Jelani notes that Trump’s base remains solid but impeachment may "drag" on his reelection prospects, unlike Clinton, whose approval climbed post-impeachment.

Standout Moment: Hakeem Jeffries’ Speech

• A Rising Star and a Rhetorical Spark
  Jelani and Dorothy highlight the forcefulness and clarity of House manager Hakeem Jeffries, whose late-night rebuttal to Trump lawyer Jay Sekulow became a viral moment:

  "We are here, sir, because President Trump pressured a foreign government to target an American citizen for political and personal gain... to follow the facts, apply the law, be guided by the Constitution, and present the truth to the American people... And if you don't know, now you know."
  — Hakeem Jeffries (14:20)

  Jelani points out Jeffries’ cultural reference:

  "Did he just conclude his remarks with a quote from Biggie? In fact, he had."
  — Jelani Cobb (15:59)

• Jeffries’ Political Future
  The episode discusses growing speculation over Jeffries as a next-generation Democratic leader, noting his close ties to Speaker Pelosi and potential to be “the most influential black politician in the country.”
  — Jelani Cobb (17:32)

Witness Negotiations and the Trial’s Meaning

• Possible Witness Swaps
  The prospect of trading John Bolton’s testimony for Hunter Biden’s is debated. Jelani highlights the unpredictability of Bolton but doubts any dramatic impact.

• Democrats’ Best-Case Outcome
  With conviction unlikely, the panel agrees that the best result for Democrats is a forceful airing of their case and Trump’s permanent status as an impeached president:

  "Trump has been impeached for life. ...he will always be thought of as the impeached president."
  — Jelani Cobb (20:17)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Constitutional Gravitas

• "We are here today in this hallowed chamber, undertaking this solemn action for only the third time in history because Donald J. Trump, the 45th president of the United States, has acted precisely as Hamilton and his contemporaries feared." — Adam Schiff (02:07)

Partisanship’s Paradox

• "The very founders who are saying that political parties could be destructive are the figures around which these parties coalesce." — Jelani Cobb (04:39)

Echoes of History

• "Jackson talked about a stolen election. Trump today would talk about it being rigged." — Dorothy Wickenden (08:43)

Hakeem Jeffries’ Modern Oratory

• "And if you don't know, now you know." — Hakeem Jeffries (15:55)
• "Did he just conclude his remarks with a quote from Biggie? In fact, he had." — Jelani Cobb (15:59)

On Democratic Leadership

• "He may well become the most influential black politician in the country, and that's not as far stretched, and that's no small thing." — Jelani Cobb (17:32)

The Last Word on Impeachment

• "Trump has been impeached for life. ...he will always be thought of as the impeached president." — Jelani Cobb (20:17)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Intro & Schiff’s Opening Argument: 01:16–03:08
• Framers' View & Partisanship Origins: 03:08–06:00
• Era of Parties and Election of 1828: 06:00–08:43
• Jackson/Trump Parallels & Defiance: 08:43–10:28
• Democratic Worries & Clinton/Trump Comparison: 11:00–13:43
• Hakeem Jeffries’ Speech & Impact: 14:20–17:32
• Jeffries’ Future & Party Leadership: 17:32–18:38
• Witness Swaps & John Bolton: 18:38–20:11
• Democrats’ Impeachment Endgame: 20:11–21:24

Conclusion

The episode provides historical depth and insightful analysis into both the constitutional underpinnings of impeachment and the modern dynamics making the Trump trial uniquely contentious. With references drawing direct parallels between past and present—both in political tactics and rhetorical style—it outlines how the very system created to check presidential power is subject to the unpredictable forces of partisanship the framers never fully anticipated. The strong performance by Hakeem Jeffries is highlighted as a promising sign for the Democratic Party’s next generation, even as the broader political drama remains deeply fraught and unresolved.