Podcast Summary: The Political Scene | The New Yorker
Episode: America’s “Bad Emperor” Problem
Date: December 6, 2025
Host: Jane Mayer
Guests: Susan Glasser, Evan Osnos
Episode Overview
This episode examines the escalating concerns around President Donald Trump’s age and perceived decline in ability during his second term as President. Drawing on recent incidents—including Trump’s public dozing, his shifting work habits, and escalating verbal outbursts—the hosts explore how issues of aging, cognitive fitness, and political identity intertwine in the Trump presidency. They compare this to past leaders like Joe Biden and Ronald Reagan, and look internationally to “bad emperor” syndrome as seen in China’s and Russia’s authoritarian systems. The episode is candid, deeply reported, and underscored by both historical context and contemporary dynamics.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Introduction: The Trump “Sleepy” Problem
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Growing Visibility of Trump’s Age (02:00 - 05:40)
- Trump, at 79, now faces scrutiny over his own stamina after winning the presidency by branding Joe Biden as “Sleepy Joe.”
- Recent events: Trump nodding off during a cabinet meeting, shorter work hours (noon to 5pm), a marked decrease in public appearances.
Evan Osnos (03:44):
“He was really just sitting in his chair with his eyes closed for long periods of time… 20 minutes, apparently, in which he was, shall we say, losing the battle against the midday nap.”
- Governor Gavin Newsom quickly dubbed him “Dozy Don”, a nickname with potential to stick in the public discourse.
2. Physical Decline vs. Political Persona
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Strength as Core Identity (05:40 - 08:10)
- Trump’s persona is built around physical vigor and strength; signs of decline threaten this foundational image, unlike with previous presidents.
- Example: Stories from his first term where aides insisted, “Donald Trump is never sick.”
- Comparison made to Trump's past TV appearances for context on his cognitive changes.
Susan Glasser (05:40):
“Trump has always projected himself as literally the incarnation, the physical incarnation of a strong man… if he is no longer the incarnation of power… what is it exactly that he’s doing for them?”
3. Evolution of Trump’s Speaking and Behavior
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Language & Length of Rallies (08:10 - 10:41)
- Trump’s rhetoric has changed: Sharper and disciplined in 2016; now, marked by rambling, "word salad," and more frequent, longer, unfiltered speeches.
- Increase in violent and profane language, more references to the 1980s and mentions of figures like Johnny Carson and Cary Grant—some before his time.
Evan Osnos (10:41):
“His use of violent language has gone up substantially… he’s cursing more… talking about war and crime at a level much higher than previous presidents.”
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Disinhibition, Detachment, and Profanity (11:46 - 16:38)
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Trump appears increasingly cosseted by sycophants, insulated from reality.
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Notable quote after an international crisis:
- Trump (15:46):
“We basically have two countries that have been fighting so long and so hard that they don’t know what the fuck they’re doing. Do you understand that?”
- Trump (15:46):
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Aides and officials mirror and intensify his coarseness, echoing his language toward journalists and in public.
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4. Scandals, Accountability, and the Cover of Aging
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Cabinet, Hegseth, and Reagan Analogies (17:44 - 21:56)
- Trump’s reduced engagement raises questions about accountability—whether he truly doesn’t know about controversial events (e.g., Hegseth/noodle tap military scandal) or whether this serves as political cover.
- Historical parallel: Ronald Reagan survived the Iran-Contra affair partly because he was seen as “out of the loop.”
Jane Mayer (21:09):
“It was entirely believable that he was out of the loop. But that’s a double-edged sword for a president… it probably saved him from impeachment or legal repercussions, but at the same time, it’s not helpful…”
5. Learning from the Biden Presidency
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Shifting Standards? (23:48 - 30:18)
- Biden’s visible aging affected standards for evaluating a president’s cognitive health.
- Comparison of White House aides: Both Biden’s and Trump’s teams risk crossing the line from “making the principal look good” to engaging in outright cover-up.
- Media’s historical reluctance to aggressively question aging and decline, especially among their own political coalition.
Susan Glasser (26:10):
“…the critique is about the politics that Biden people never came up with a plausible and useful political explanation for the truth of Biden’s aging, and I see that happening now with the Trump people…”
6. Systemic Dangers: The Unitary Executive and Authoritarian Models
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What Happens When the Strongman Weakens? (30:18 - 33:35)
- Trump’s version of the presidency further concentrates power—a risk if his own capacity fades.
- Unlike Biden, there’s no plausible “avuncular” Trump persona. The consequences may be more instability, erraticism, and possible outbursts.
Susan Glasser (32:54):
“I’m quite concerned about what this aging will mean… not only angrier and more erratic, but potentially prone to really wild acts that would be unconstrained.”
7. The “Bad Emperor” Problem: Lessons from Abroad
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Chinese and Russian Examples (34:26 - 37:27)
- In systems that over-centralize power, decline in the leader's faculties can lead to chaos or disaster (“the bad emperor problem”).
- Mao’s later years: Catastrophic political campaigns attempting to compensate for lost physical and political vitality.
- In Russia, Vladimir Putin’s longevity and aging are tied to bold, risky moves, notably the Ukraine invasion.
Evan Osnos (34:41):
“There is a pattern… known as the bad emperor problem… when you have so much power in a single individual… when somebody loses their mind or gets too old… terrible things can happen.”
Susan Glasser (36:14):
“Putin… thinking about his legacy, and wanting to be the man who began to reassemble the lost empire… That is a function of Putin’s extreme longevity and power.”
Jane Mayer (37:22):
“When strongmen get weak, watch out seems to be the bottom line here.”
Notable Quotes & Moments
- (03:44, Evan Osnos): “20 minutes… losing the battle against the midday nap.”
- (05:40, Susan Glasser): “[Trump’s] entire political identity… is the idea of strength, of power.”
- (10:41, Evan Osnos): “…his use of violent language has gone up substantially.”
- (15:46, Donald Trump): “They don’t know what the fuck they’re doing. Do you understand that?”
- (21:09, Jane Mayer): “It was entirely believable that he was out of the loop… that’s a double-edged sword for a president.”
- (34:41, Evan Osnos): “…the bad emperor problem… when somebody loses their mind or gets too old… terrible things can happen.”
- (37:22, Jane Mayer): “When strongmen get weak, watch out seems to be the bottom line here.”
Important Timestamps
- 02:00 – Start of Trump’s age and fatigue discussion
- 03:44 – Trump’s public dozing incident
- 10:41 – Shift in Trump’s language and behavior
- 15:46 – Explicit Trump quote on foreign policy
- 21:09 – Reagan and “out of the loop” analogy
- 23:48 – Lessons from the Biden presidency
- 30:18 – Systemic dangers, “bad emperor” syndrome
- 34:41 – Authoritarian models and international lessons
- 37:22 – “When strongmen get weak, watch out”
Tone and Atmosphere
- Candid, historically aware, deeply concerned.
- Mix of dry humor, political seriousness, and institutional memory.
- Regular references to the ironies and paradoxes of aging politicians in high office.
Conclusion
This episode dissects the unfolding crisis of a president aging in office, highlighting the political and systemic dangers when a strongman identity cannot be maintained. Drawing parallels from American and global history, the hosts issue a warning about the accumulation of power and the perils when that power outlasts the individual’s capacity to wield it. The conversation is a sobering reflection on how democracies—and their media and institutions—should handle declining leaders before “the bad emperor problem” arrives on America’s doorstep.