The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Episode: Amy Davidson and George Packer Talk to David Remnick About President-Elect Trump
Date: November 14, 2016

Overview

This episode, recorded days after the 2016 presidential election, features New Yorker editor David Remnick in conversation with staff writers Amy Davidson and George Packer. Together, they unpack the shock of Donald Trump’s victory, analyze the social, cultural, and systemic underpinnings of his support, and discuss the prospects and dangers of a Trump presidency. They also consider the state of American democracy, the press, and the avenues open for citizens and the opposition.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. How Did We Miss the Trump Phenomenon?

• Remnick opens by describing the sense of shock among many after Election Night:

  “Donald Trump clearly tapped into a range of currents...a struggling middle class...racial and ethnic divides...a collapsed media structure...If Donald Trump’s presidency is anything like his campaign...our country is in totally uncharted and dangerous waters.” (01:33)

• Packer explains Trump’s appeal to a wide spectrum of voters:

  “There’s no single Trump voter...A resentment, a feeling of having been left behind by this technological global economy ...This was a revenge vote. It was a middle finger vote, more than a vote for a program or for some hopeful idea.” (02:48)

2. Corruption, Authenticity, and Political Correctness

• Amy Davidson identifies “corruption” as Trump's key charge—though voters viewed it differently than elites or journalists did:

  “What he found that they most responded to...is the charge of corruption...The leveraging of influence and position has become a definition of corruption for a lot of people in America in a way that I don't think we entirely appreciated.” (03:50, 05:07)

• On Trump's “authenticity”:

  “He didn’t try to hide his bad behavior or his rude opinions. He flouted them.” – Remnick (06:41) “For some people, [authenticity] is selfishness and egoism and immorality; for others, it’s authenticity.” – Packer (07:07)

• On political correctness:

  “The other key phrase in his campaign was political correctness, which...his supporters said that's the most important thing about Trump, is that he's willing to be politically incorrect.” – Packer (07:07)

3. Explaining Voter Decisions: Gender, Class and Privilege

• Discussion of surprising support from white women:

  “Over 40% of white women in this country voted for Donald Trump no matter what...Over 40% of white women voted for Donald Trump and not Hillary Clinton.” – Remnick (08:09) “One thing that political correctness means to a lot of Trump voters is a refusal to talk about class as the actual source of privilege or lack of privilege.” – Davidson (08:32)

• Packer references John Dos Passos:

  “We are two nations...But it’s the mental world in which Americans live. How is it that people can see the world so fundamentally differently and be so impervious to any counter argument or counter fact?” (09:45)

4. Media Bias and Self-Reflection

• Davidson pushes back on one-sided narratives about being impervious to facts:

  “That imperviousness is not all one sided. It's not that the Trump voters were impervious to facts and we absorb them the same way.” (10:46)

5. The Republican Party’s Role and Checks on Trump

• On whether Trump will moderate:

  “That's going to depend a lot on the Republican Party that nominated him, that supported him throughout this and that never truly rejected him.” – Davidson (12:17)

• Institutional checks:

  “One of his central issues is the whole idea that all the Democrats are corrupt...His particular views on things like choice and LGBT rights are retrograde.” – Davidson on Mike Pence (14:26) “Trump’s administration might get away from him...Will the traditional right wing in Congress and in his own administration start running the agenda in spite of Trump?” – Packer (15:03)

6. The Fantasy of Economic Populism

• On whether Trump will deliver for working-class supporters:

  "His actual proposals do not benefit the white working class or any working class in America. His tax policies don't." – Davidson (15:36) “This is, in large measure, a fantasy.” – Remnick (16:11)

7. The FBI, Clinton, and Alternative Histories

• Debate over the role of Comey, and whether other Democrats (Biden, Sanders) could have beaten Trump:

  “But you know what? Hillary Clinton might have beaten Donald Trump. This was a close election and she didn't.” – Davidson (18:43) “This was one of those elections that was both an earthquake...and also a squeaker. She won the popular vote.” – Packer (19:03, 19:18)

8. Fear of Abuses of Power and Democratic Resilience

• On Trump’s threats to institutions and democracy:

  “He has shown himself to be not just willing, but almost eager to abuse power, to use the office of the presidency to settle scores, to muzzle the press, to put people in jail.” – Packer (19:31) “It’s the Putinesque version of the presidency. And I think the real fear is the institutions...they just don't seem as strong as they used to be.” – Packer (20:38)

9. The Role of the Press

• On journalistic integrity and accountability:

  “All the press can do is maintain its integrity...If we have a sense that we're holding back on either side, that...strengthens people like Donald Trump.” – Davidson (21:19) “We have to do what we got into this business to do, which is to hold power accountable...by gathering facts and putting those facts into a compelling form.” – Packer (21:52)

10. What Can Citizens Do?

• Practical and moral responses:

  “To be good neighbors, to recognize the fears next door and...stand up for your neighbors...Also, one hopes that people will continue to see politics as a respectable profession and enter it.” – Davidson (23:04) “There has to be enormous, enormous pressure to confirm another Supreme Court justice and a decent one...push on all the fronts where we can, in civil society...This is not the moment to give up on them.” – Davidson (24:42)

• Packer invokes the conservative movement's tenacity:

  “Disconsolate liberals should look at the history of the modern conservative movement...within a dozen years, they’d elected a president after their own heart...No matter who's president.” (25:21)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“This was a revenge vote. It was a middle finger vote, more than a vote for a program or for some hopeful idea.”
— George Packer (02:48)

“The leveraging of influence and position has become a definition of corruption for a lot of people in America in a way that I don't think we entirely appreciated.”
— Amy Davidson (05:07)

“Trump conveyed and worked up an aura of authenticity.”
— George Packer (07:07)

“We're two nations in different ways...in terms of class, this election played out along lines of education...geography...The thing that disturbs me profoundly is...the mental world in which Americans live...that’s more of a threat to democracy than any of the other divisions that we’ve seen open up during this campaign.”
— George Packer (09:45)

“His actual proposals do not benefit the white working class or any working class in America. His tax policies don't.”
— Amy Davidson (15:36)

“He has shown himself to be...almost eager to abuse power, to use the office of the presidency to settle scores, to muzzle the press, to put people in jail.”
— George Packer (19:31)

“All the press can do is maintain its integrity...If we have a sense that we're holding back on either side, that just...strengthens people like Donald Trump.”
— Amy Davidson (21:19)

“To be good neighbors...stand up for your neighbors...continue to see politics as a respectable profession and enter it.”
— Amy Davidson (23:04)

“No matter who's president.”
— George Packer on the need for grassroots organizing (25:21)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:33 – Remnick’s introduction: “If you’re like me, you were profoundly shocked…”
• 02:48 – Packer on the “revenge vote” and the disillusionment of Trump supporters
• 05:07 – Davidson: “Corruption” in Trump’s campaign and how it resonated
• 07:07 – Political correctness, authenticity, and Trump’s “plain-speaking”
• 08:09 – The role of gender in voting patterns; white women’s support
• 09:45 – Packer on “two nations” and the deeper threat to democracy
• 12:17 – Davidson: The GOP’s responsibility and institutional checks
• 15:36 – Reality vs. fantasy in Trump’s working-class promises
• 19:31 – Packer: Fears of Trump abusing presidential power
• 21:19 – Role and responsibility of the press in the coming era
• 23:04 – What citizens and the opposition can do now
• 25:21 – Lessons from conservative organizing and importance of local activism

Tone & Style

The conversation is sober, analytical, and reflective—sometimes urgent, often searching for understanding and lessons. The hosts speak frankly but with respect and gravitas appropriate for the surprising and unsettling nature of Trump’s victory and the uncertain political future.

Summary

In one of the first deep dives into Trump’s victory, Remnick, Davidson, and Packer try to unravel how American democracy arrived at this moment. They challenge stereotypes about Trump voters, caution against one-sided narratives, and examine how the central campaign issues of “corruption,” “authenticity,” and “political correctness” resonated with large swathes of America.

The trio warns of perils to democratic institutions and urges both journalists and ordinary citizens to recommit to their democratic roles—through integrity, accountability, organization, and simple neighborliness. The episode closes with a call to persist in both small and large forms of democratic participation: “Democracy pervades our society…we have so many small tools for democratic participation, and it’s just a matter of making use of them.” (Amy Davidson, 26:15)