Podcast Summary
The Political Scene | The New Yorker
Episode: An Evangelical Activist Embraces #MeToo
Date: July 9, 2018
Host: Eliza Griswold
Guest: Autumn Miles
Episode Overview
This episode explores the intersection of evangelical Christianity and the #MeToo movement, centering on the story of Autumn Miles—a devout Christian, Baptist pastor’s daughter, and survivor of domestic abuse. The conversation examines how the #MeToo movement has prompted vital conversations and tension within evangelical communities, particularly regarding the treatment of women, the misuse of scripture, and the urgent need for change in church leadership and gender roles.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Impact of #MeToo on Evangelical Communities
[02:35]
- The #MeToo movement has created both a “shift and a rift” in the evangelical community.
- Shift: Growing attention to the needs and voices of victims of abuse.
- Rift: Tension between progressives pushing for change and conservatives clinging to tradition.
"I think a shift needed to happen. It had to happen. We have to do a better job at supporting, helping, and aiding these victims of any kind of violence. That is the heart of Jesus."
—Autumn Miles [02:54]
2. Submission, Scripture, and Abuse
[03:32] – [06:23]
- Abuse survivors in the church often hear "wives submit to your husbands" used as justification for abuse.
- The concept of submission is frequently distorted by abusers and some church leaders.
- Paige Patterson, a former SBC president, advised abused women to return to their husbands—mirroring Autumn’s personal experience of scriptural manipulation.
"It is very, very often that I hear that abusers, if they are in the church, will tell their victims, you have to submit to me... The very word submission in the Bible is actually the word hupitasa, which means to willingly place yourself under. It's not a force."
—Autumn Miles [04:19]
3. Personal Journey: Abuse and Courage to Leave
[06:28] – [09:18]
- Autumn describes a psychologically and emotionally abusive marriage, beginning with subtle insults and escalating to terror and suicidal thoughts.
- Her spiritual experience—a powerful "God moment"—gave her the courage to leave.
"There was one night that I lay in my bed... I thought, at this point, God hates me. My husband hates me. I can't tell anyone... and so I started contemplating suicide. And as I was really planning my own death, the spirit of God spoke to me and said, do you remember me?"
—Autumn Miles [07:34]
- Despite support from her parents, Autumn faced institutional rejection: Church elders threatened her with expulsion ("church discipline") if she divorced.
"They looked at me and they said, you know, if you file for divorce, God's never going to use you... And so what these men were telling me didn't resonate with the Jesus I had met at 3am in the morning."
—Autumn Miles [09:18]
4. Women’s Leadership and Complementarianism
[10:17] – [12:20]
- The role of women in church leadership is a contentious topic post-#MeToo.
- Autumn describes herself as theologically between strict male headship and fully egalitarian leadership; she supports men as head pastors but also values co-pastoring with women.
"That's exactly where I lie, right in the middle."
—Autumn Miles [11:05]
- She notes that complementarianism can be abused but also believes it can be expressed beautifully, with men and women serving together.
"There is a way that it can be done very unhealthily, but there is also a way that it can be done very beautifully where the pastor is serving... The woman is not less important than the man, and the man is not less important than the woman."
—Autumn Miles [11:33]
5. Rethinking Gender Roles
[12:20] – [14:23]
- The evangelical community must use this moment for introspection and growth regarding women’s roles.
- Public conversations about “gender roles” and women in leadership are needed, not just platitudes.
"If pastors are saying, I believe in women, women should be in leadership positions in their church. They need to back up what they're saying."
—Autumn Miles [12:27]
- Autumn has been called a heretic for her views but is undeterred if it helps another woman:
"If I can help one woman that is suffering today, I'll take all of those insults that are hurled at me."
—Autumn Miles [13:12]
6. Repentance: What Practical Change Looks Like
[13:42] – [15:13]
- Real change requires church leaders to honestly evaluate their motivations (pride, tradition, or religion) for excluding women.
- Repentance is essential—acknowledging wrongdoing and asking for forgiveness.
"Acknowledging that you're wrong. It's as simple as that. Repent is one of those words where it makes everyone cringe... However it's needed, we have to get past our pride in some of these areas."
—Autumn Miles [14:23]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
“A rift. Yeah, that as well. But you know what? A rift. I’m okay with a rift for the shift.”
—Autumn Miles [02:54] -
“We need to take a hard look inside of ourselves and say, listen, are we not elevating women to positions because of pride, because of religion, because of tradition?... This is a time... where our leadership and our pastors might need to repent.”
—Autumn Miles [13:42]
Timestamps for Important Segments
- [02:35] – The #MeToo movement’s impact on evangelicals
- [04:19] – Submission, scripture, and domestic abuse in churches
- [07:34] – Autumn’s crisis point and spiritual turning moment
- [09:18] – Facing rejection from church elders after seeking divorce
- [11:05] – Theology of women’s leadership and complementarianism
- [12:27] – The need for authentic support for women in leadership
- [14:23] – The meaning of repentance in the modern church context
Conclusion
Through Autumn Miles' personal story and activism, this episode illustrates the growing pains and opportunities for transformation facing evangelical Christianity in the era of #MeToo. The candid discussion calls for compassion, introspection, and genuine reform within church structures—empowering women and rooting out abusive misuses of faith. Autumn’s unwavering faith and willingness to confront difficult truths make for a compelling and timely conversation about the path forward for evangelicals and American Christianity at large.