Episode Overview

Podcast: The Political Scene | The New Yorker
Episode: Baratunde Thurston Talks to Nicholas Thompson About Humor and the Conversation About Race
Date: June 13, 2016
Host: Nick Thompson (Website Editor, The New Yorker)
Guest: Baratunde Thurston (Comedian, writer, digital media strategist; author of How to Be Black)

Main Theme:
A candid and engaging conversation between Nick Thompson and Baratunde Thurston centering on the role of humor in navigating and enriching national conversations around race. They discuss Thurston's unique career trajectory, the complexities of using comedy to address serious topics like race and politics, and the evolving landscape of media and cross-cultural dialogue.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Baratunde Thurston’s Career and The Daily Show Experience

• Background:
  Thurston’s multifaceted career—comedian, writer, commentator, podcast host, digital strategist—includes stints at The Onion and The Daily Show.
• Role at The Daily Show:
  Thurston explains his task was to “expand the digital footprint” and bring "Internet sauce" to the show after Trevor Noah took over as host.
  • Quote (Baratunde):
    “My job was to help relaunch the show, add more Internet sauce to it... We had a new young, dynamic, connected host who invited me to join him on this journey.” (03:00)
• Reason for Leaving:
  Thurston felt his role as supervising producer consumed too much of his creative bandwidth, pulling him away from on-air and writing opportunities.
  • Quote (Baratunde):
    “The supervising producer job sucked all the time. It also totally took me away from my own voice and my ability to express myself, like on camera, on stage, on Microsoft. And that became an increasingly frustrating.” (03:29)

2. Comedy and the Trump Era

• Efficacy of Humor Against Trump:
  Thompson asks if humor—like “Black Donald Trump” or John Oliver’s segments—actually changes public perception of Trump.

  • Quote (Baratunde):
    “Trump is a very special boss, like, video game villain. And most of the shots you fire at him make him stronger... I don’t think humor alone is gonna be enough. It’s a part of it.” (04:54)
  • Discussion highlights Trump’s ability to absorb and thrive on attention, even negative comedic attention.

• Key Segment—African Dictators Comparison:
  Thurston recounts a formative moment early in Trevor Noah’s tenure, where Noah contextualized Trump as an “African dictator”—a segment only possible with Noah’s unique background.

  • Quote (Baratunde):
    “Trump is basically an African dictator.” (06:20)
  • Quote (Nick Thompson):
    “It was an incredible segment. It was something that only really Trevor Noah could do.” (06:48)

3. Trevor Noah’s Interviewing Style and Depth

• Public Critique:
  Thompson raises the critique that Noah is funny and charismatic but doesn’t “go for the jugular” in interviews.

• Baratunde’s Perspective:
  Thurston defends Noah, noting that finding the right balance as a late-night host takes time, and that audiences often underestimate the difficulty of these roles.

  • Quote (Baratunde):
    “I think, you know, like a Roman Coliseum. The public wants blood. I don’t think people really understand how a show works. And it’s a comedy show.” (07:31)
  • Notes that Jon Stewart’s tougher style only emerged in the later years of his tenure.

• Notable Example:
  Discussion of Trevor Noah’s interview with Lindsey Graham and whether Noah pressed hard enough on Graham’s comments about Trump and the Republican Party.

  • Quote (Baratunde):
    “I probably would have wanted to ask that question more and more. I’m also a different person... I don't think it's like a huge miss or huge failure.” (09:18)

4. Baratunde’s Approach to Tough Conversations About Race

• Pushing and Pulling:
  Thurston describes his philosophy for difficult discussions:

  • Pushing: Insisting on truth, making the other uncomfortable if necessary.
  • Pulling: Drawing out others’ perspectives, seeking to learn from their experiences.
  • Quote (Baratunde):
    “The pushing is from a perspective of, like, I know something, I need you to acknowledge it... The pulling is, you’ve got something too, and I don’t have it. What is your experience? What is your perspective?” (10:42)

• Limitations of Typical Media Interviews:
  He notes that time constraints and formats (e.g., five-minute segments) restrict genuine dialogue.

5. Purpose and Structure of “Our National Conversation About Conversations About Race” Podcast

• A Broader Table:
  Thurston describes his podcast, co-hosted with Tanner Colby and Raquel Cepeda, as intentionally cross-cultural—multiple backgrounds and perspectives, not just binary or within a single group.
  • Quote (Baratunde):
    “So many of the race conversations we allegedly have are just within groups... when you do have a cross cultural thing, it's usually pretty binary. It's usually a single gender. And so we try to design.” (11:39)
  • The podcast brings together guests of diverse backgrounds, aiming to “afford to dip our toe into the rivers of complexity.” (12:22)

6. Limits and Power of Humor in Conversations About Race

• Humor as Spotlight, Not a Panacea:
  Thurston argues humor is powerful for focusing attention and relieving pain, but isn’t sufficient by itself to resolve deep social problems like racism.
  • Quote (Baratunde):
    “Humor is not like a panacea. It doesn't... cure all... Humor is largely focuses attention and relieves pain. The jokes are not gonna resolve America's great diseases, not alone. It can ease the pain. It can show you where to apply therapy. But humor alone is not up to the task. I don't think anything alone is.” (12:34)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|-------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:00 | Baratunde | “My job was to help relaunch the show, add more Internet sauce to it...” | | 03:29 | Baratunde | “The supervising producer job sucked all the time... took me away from my own voice…” | | 04:54 | Baratunde | “Trump is a very special boss, like, video game villain... it makes him stronger...” | | 06:20 | Baratunde | “Trump is basically an African dictator.” | | 07:31 | Baratunde | “The public wants blood. I don’t think people really understand how a show works...” | | 09:18 | Baratunde | “I probably would have wanted to ask that question more and more. I’m also a different person.” | | 10:42 | Baratunde | “The pushing is... I need you to acknowledge it... The pulling is, you’ve got something too, and I don’t have it.” | | 11:39 | Baratunde | “So many of the race conversations we allegedly have are just within groups...” | | 12:34 | Baratunde | “Humor is not like a panacea. It doesn't... cure all... Humor is largely focuses attention and relieves pain.” |

Important Segment Timestamps

• 02:28 – 03:50: Thurston describes his Daily Show role and what prompted his departure.
• 04:22 – 05:28: Discussion of “Black Donald Trump” segment and broader impact of satire on Trump.
• 06:20 – 07:03: Comparison of Trump to African dictators; unique strength of Trevor Noah’s background.
• 07:03 – 08:13: Debate over Trevor Noah’s interview style and public expectations.
• 09:40 – 10:42: Thurston discusses philosophy for approaching difficult conversations, especially about race.
• 11:39 – 12:22: Explanation of the cross-cultural aims of Thurston’s race-focused podcast.
• 12:34 – 13:28: Thurston reflects on humor’s strengths and limitations in social discourse.

Conclusion

This episode offers an insightful, nuanced exploration of the intersection between humor, media, and the ongoing conversation about race in America. Baratunde Thurston brings both personal experience and sharp analysis, emphasizing that while humor can be a powerful spotlight and a balm for collective pain, it is not a standalone solution for complex social issues. The conversation is candid, critical, and ultimately hopeful about the power of genuine dialogue and creative engagement.