Bernie Sanders' America

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Episode: Bernie Sanders' America
Date: February 4, 2016
Host: Dorothy Wickenden
Guests: John Cassidy (Staff Writer), Ryan Lizza (Washington Correspondent)

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Episode Overview

This episode, "Bernie Sanders’ America," explores the meteoric rise of Bernie Sanders in the 2016 presidential race, particularly his appeal among young voters and the broader dynamics within the Democratic Party. Dorothy Wickenden is joined by John Cassidy and Ryan Lizza to analyze Sanders' surprising success, the Democratic Party’s shifting identity, the legacy of Obama’s grassroots movement, and the lack of emerging young leaders within the party.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Sanders Phenomenon and the "America" Ad

• Sanders’ campaign employs a Simon & Garfunkel song from 1968 in a campaign ad, tapping into nostalgia and idealism.
• Ryan Lizza notes the ad “makes you feel good. It doesn't tell you anything about where he wants the country to go,” but Sanders is improving in articulating policy specifics. (02:13)
• The song’s effectiveness is dissected, with surprise at its appeal to young voters, who are otherwise detached from its era.

Quote @ 02:13 - Ryan Lizza:
“It taps into a lot more idealism and makes you feel good in a way that Hillary Clinton's campaign doesn't... But it can be sometimes frustratingly light on specifics.”

2. Youth Enthusiasm and the Search for Authenticity

• Sanders connects with young voters because he projects authenticity and an outsider message.
• For millennials, Sanders is "a new figure on the scene... He's got a new message from the outside," says John Cassidy. Although some elements of his rhetoric are apocalyptic, his delivery remains hopeful.
• The discussion draws a parallel between Sanders' optimism and Ronald Reagan's, highlighting Sanders’ appeal as reminiscent of past hopeful movements.

Quote @ 03:31 - John Cassidy:
“Millennials... are looking for something more authentic... The way he presents it is very hopeful... that can take the country back and return America to its roots, which may be mythical.”

3. Democratic Party’s Identity and Populist Shift

• Comparison of Sanders’ populist movement to the Clinton-Blair "Third Way" centrism, which formerly saved the Democratic Party but is now losing relevance.
• John Cassidy asserts the "progressive tradition" suppressed for decades is now resurgent, while moderate centrism lacks compelling alternatives for young voters.
• Sanders’ rise builds on previous movements like Occupy Wall Street and Elizabeth Warren's advocacy.

Quote @ 06:32 - John Cassidy:
“The Democratic Party base is a lot more liberal than it was 20 years ago... the progressive tradition, after being in the doldrums for 20 or 30 years, is now resurgent.”

4. Economic Discontent and Party Realignment

• Despite economic recovery statistics, many people, including young voters, feel left out due to wage stagnation and inequality.
• Cassidy distinguishes between short-term growth under Obama and long-term systemic issues—the latter fueling Sanders’ message.

Quote @ 04:56 - John Cassidy:
“The problem is that sort of modest recovery we've had is superimposed on 30 or 40 years of very disappointing economic numbers. Wage stagnation, rising inequality, frustrated expectations.”

5. Democratic and Republican Party Parallels

• Both parties are experiencing base-level turmoil and identity crises.
• The Democrats are shifting left in response to grassroots demands, but have responded more effectively than Republicans, whose establishment still prioritizes traditional economic platforms.

Quote @ 09:05 - Ryan Lizza:
“On both sides, we do seem to have 25 to 30, maybe 40% of the party that is responding to a much more populist critique of what's going on in Washington.”

6. The Lost Democratic "Bench"

• Unlike Republicans who have emerging leaders like Marco Rubio, Democrats lack a comparable young political cohort at the national level.
• According to Lizza, Democratic losses at the state level since 2010 have decimated the party’s pipeline for future national leaders.

Quote @ 12:22 - Ryan Lizza:
“It's one of the underreported stories of the Obama era is just how devastated at the state and local level the Democrats have been."

7. Grassroots Movements and Millennials

• Post-Obama, the grassroots energy faded due to a lack of ongoing engagement from the DNC and missed opportunities by the administration.
• Sanders' call for "political revolution" echoes the style, but not the organizational follow-up, of Obama's 2008 campaign.

Quote @ 13:30 - Ryan Lizza:
“The Obama campaign... didn't really see keeping that grassroots engaged as a major priority and didn't have a plan for them... the DNC... sort of fell down on the job."

8. Black Lives Matter, Minimum Wage Movements & The Party’s Future

• Local activism and online organizing (e.g. Black Lives Matter, minimum wage campaigns) are shaping Democratic politics.
• The episode closes with speculation on how Clinton or Sanders might re-engage the coalition that propelled Obama, particularly with younger and non-white voters.

Quote @ 16:30 - Ryan Lizza:
“…in the general election, the thing that she'll need is to excite the coalition that Obama put together in '08 and 2012, and that's young people. Much larger percentages of nonwhite voters... Is the African American support and the support in the Latino community that Obama was able to win, does that really translate to any Democrat, or is it something just unique to who he is?”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ryan Lizza on Sanders’ campaign style:
  “It taps into a lot more idealism and makes you feel good in a way that Hillary Clinton's campaign doesn't.” (02:13)

• Cassidy on youth voters:
  “Millennials... are looking for something more authentic.” (03:31)

• Cassidy on economic anxiety:
  “The so-called American dream, whatever that is, is not being fulfilled anymore.” (04:56)

• Lizza on the party’s future:
  “It's one of the underreported stories of the Obama era is just how devastated at the state and local level the Democrats have been.” (12:22)

• Lizza on Clinton’s challenge:
  “She'll need to excite the coalition that Obama put together... That's young people, much larger percentages of nonwhite voters...” (16:30)

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Timeline & Timestamps

• [02:13] Sanders’ “America” ad and idealism
• [03:31] Sanders’ authenticity and youth appeal
• [04:56] Economic frustrations beneath Obama-era recovery
• [06:32] Progressive vs. moderate party factions
• [09:05] Populism surge in both parties
• [11:29] Democratic Party’s lack of young national leaders
• [12:22] Impact of state/local electoral losses
• [13:30] Post-Obama grassroots activism
• [15:22] Black Lives Matter, minimum wage campaigns
• [16:30] Clinton’s need to reassemble Obama’s coalition

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Conclusion

"Bernie Sanders’ America" insightfully examines the ideological and generational shifts transforming the Democratic Party, closely linked to persistent economic anxiety and the rise of grassroots movements. The episode underscores the party’s strategic challenges, the distinctive resonance of Sanders’ campaign among younger voters, and open questions about recreating the Obama coalition in a new political era. This dynamic, introspective conversation helps illuminate not just Sanders’ moment, but the evolving soul of the Democratic Party itself.

Transcript

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[Dorothy Wickenden]

This is the Political Scene, a weekly conversation with New Yorker writers and editors about Politics. It's Thursday, February 3rd. I'm Dorothy Wickenden, executive editor of the New Yorker. This hasn't been exactly a feel good campaign. Then came this from Bernie Sanders, John Cassidy and Ryan Lizza join me to explain how a 74 year old white guy from Brooklyn, with the help of a Simon and garfunkel anthem from 1968, has won the passions of so many of the country's youngest voters. Also, whether the Democratic Party, like the Republicans, is having an identity crisis. Ryan, what about that ad?

[Ryan Lizza]

Well, it sums up at least part of the Sanders campaign, which is that it taps into a lot more idealism and makes you feel good in a way that Hillary Clinton's campaign doesn't. @ least for a lot of voters, it seems. But it can be sometimes frustratingly light on specifics. Although I think Sanders has gotten a little bit better in fleshing out his ideas. You know that ad, it makes you feel good. It doesn't tell you anything about where he wants the country to go. Am I being too cynical?

[Dorothy Wickenden]

No, but I just want to pause about this ad for a second because, well, first of all, it doesn't quote, as far as I can remember, the part about buying a pack of cigarettes and Mrs. Wagner's pies, whatever those were. I mean, 1968. So this is a nostalgia from before these young voters were born. So what gets voters in their 20s so excited about him?

[Ryan Lizza]

It's funny that it's such an old song because obviously the big divide in the Iowa caucus results was that she did overwhelmingly well with older voters and he did very, very well with younger voters. And I don't want to speak for millennials, but maybe a song like this has been out of play for so long, it's cool again. And there's something kind of cool about the 60s era politics that young people find enchanting. Right? I mean, he's tapping into that.

[Dorothy Wickenden]

John, you look like you're ready to say something.

[John Cassidy]

Yeah, I think it goes to this sort of authenticity question. I mean, I think millennials in all sorts of fields are looking for something more authentic. But most millennials, I don't think, knew who Bernie Sanders was a couple of years ago. I mean, we're grizzled old political correspondents. We've seen him for 30 years, but he's a new figure on the scene. If you're 20 something. And he's got a new message from the outside. It sometimes seems like a very negative message about the billionaires stealing the country and rising inequality. It's sort of apocalyptic, but the way he presents it is very hopeful. You know, the sort of idea that can take the country back and return America to its roots, which may be mythical because it's always been a pretty divided country. I think he taps into that sort of Reaganist optimism in some ways. I mean, I just wrote about that in a post. If you go and watch a Sanders rally, young adults are really enthusiastic and optimistic and sort of idealistic. The phrase that Ryan used. Clinton, although I think she's trying to sort of replicate that, has had a big problem doing that because she's so much part of the political world we've known for so long.

[Dorothy Wickenden]

But what's happened to Obama's younger voters, the voters who were so completely catalyzed, especially by his first campaign. He talked about hope and change. He seemed to be the bridge to the 21st century that bill Clinton had talked about. Also, under his presidency, Americans have been experiencing an economic expansion. Normally, that alone would have been enough to get another Democrat.

[John Cassidy]

What's different this time the economy is an interesting one. You have to distinguish between the short term and the long term. I think in the short term things are pretty good. We know We've had these five years of strong job growth, unemployment rates down to 5%, below 5% GDP growth. It was slow in the last quarter, but it's been pretty good. We've had a five years of economic recovery, you would say that should benefit the incumbent. Hillary is to all extents and purposes the incumbent. The problem is that sort of modest recovery we've had is superimposed on 30 or 40 years of very disappointing economic numbers. Wage stagnation, rising inequality, frustrated expectations, a general feeling that the so called American dream, whatever that is, is not being fulfilled anymore. And Sanders, I think is really tapping into that sort of narrative also with his stuff about, you know, the only people who've really done well in the last 20 or 30 years of Wall street and the bankers. That really, I think jibes with what a lot of ordinary people and not just young people. Sanders is appealing to older people too, how they now view the world. Whereas Hillary, she comes out of the Clinton Blair tradition, which was as long as we economic growth, it'll filter down to the average person. So what we've got to do is just focus everything on getting growth and good business conditions. That doesn't really jibe with young voters.

[Dorothy Wickenden]

In the 80s, the Democratic Party seemed to be in a death spiral and it was saved in large part by Clinton and Gore, who were then the vibrant young moderate Democrats. And that was the third wave, Tony Blair and the rest. And it was a huge movement. We aren't really seeing that yet, despite what we're hearing from Sanders.

[John Cassidy]

Sanders, I think does represent a genuine sort of populist movement. He's inherited the sort of Occupy Wall street movement, the Elizabeth Warren movement I think we see now. If Elizabeth Warren had run, she'd have been a formidable candidate. Whether she'd been as formidable as Bernie, I don't know. But there is actually a populist movement out there. The Democratic Party base is a lot more liberal than it was 20 years ago, I think. So people are willing to give Bernie's left wing views a hearing in a way they weren't. And on the other side, the sort of Clint Blair tradition, sometimes called neoliberalism, although they wouldn't accept that label, I think has had a sort of crisis of confidence after the financial crisis and the sort of revelation that we've had 30 years of wage stagnation. What has happened is that the progressive tradition, after being in the doldrums for 20 or 30 years, is now resurgent. And the moderate Blair Clinton wing of the party really hasn't come up with a coherent alternative. Not one that inspires young vote. Exactly.

[Ryan Lizza]

Well, but isn't it, John? They won. Their project in the 80s and 90s was victorious. They reoriented the Democratic Party. After three Democratic losses in the presidency, they won two terms. And I always thought that the whole point of that reorientation was so that they could move forward with a more progressive agenda, which is sort of what happened in the post Clinton years as the party turned left. So if you look at it that way, the project that they undertook is no longer necessary. And that strategy is sort of dated now. Right?

[John Cassidy]

No, I agree, it is. I mean, I just think Hillary's having trouble sort of straddling the divide. I remember I did the 88 campaign. You know, people thought the Democratic Party was finished after that. So the Blair and Clinton project was, as you say, a great success. They achieved a lot, not just electoral victory. There was quite a lot of sort of redistribution, the earned income tax credit, things like that. Eventually, if you look at Obama as the sort of heir to the moderate tradition, it did generate the Affordable Care act and lots more liberal reforms which aren't strictly economic. It sort of reached a crisis, though, in dealing with the aftermath of the Great Recession and the whole inequality, wage stagnation issue.

[Dorothy Wickenden]

And Ryan. That's what has struck me too, in the last week or so, everyone's been so focused on the Donald Trump phenomenon and the rage of the right wing populace. But the Democratic Party has a real problem here. So tell us a little bit more about how you see that playing out. You were at the Iowa caucuses. Do you see something bigger forming here in respons to the Clinton wing of the party?

[Ryan Lizza]

First thing to say is that Hillary Clinton is actually more liberal certainly than her husband, at least by the end of his administration.

[Dorothy Wickenden]

On domestic policy.

[Ryan Lizza]

On domestic policy. And she's more liberal. She's to the left of Barack Obama on a whole series of issues. You know, she's been around in politics long enough that she knows where the center in her party is. And that center has been moving left and she's been moving left with it. Now, of course, along comes a socialist who pushes, at least in the primary primaries, the debate a few clicks even further left. You know, it's not good enough to improve upon Obamacare. You have to tear it up and do a Medicare for all program on both sides. We do seem to have, what, 25 to 30, maybe 40% of the party that is responding to a much more populist critique of what's going on in Washington. I think part of it is just frustration that Washington has been dysfunctional for the past few years. But surely a big part of it is the wage stagnation that John was talking about and the sort of anemic recovery since the financial crisis. So both parties have this sort of turmoil in the base. And so far, I think the Democrats are doing a little bit better in terms of an economic agenda responding to it. The Republicans still just think they can snuff the Trump populism out and it'll go away and everyone will rally around Marco Rubio or whoever it is that has the sort of tr, traditional tax cutting and deregulation agenda that really doesn't speak to the economic woes that Trump has tapped into.

[David Remnick]

Right now, we are living through some of the most tumultuous political times our country has ever known. I'm David Remnick, and each week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, I'll try to make sense of what's happening alongside politicians and thinkers like Cory Booker, Nancy Pelosi, Liz Cheney, Tim Waltz, Ketanji Brown Jackson, Newt Gingrich, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Charlemagne Tha God, and so many more. That's all in the New Yorker Radio Hour wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Dorothy Wickenden]

When you think about young Democrats coming up through the ranks, the Republicans have Rubio. The Democrats don't seem to have a Rubio. And Republicans are gaining huge numbers of legislative seats at the state level. They have, what, 2/3 of the governor's mansions. So talk a little bit about how that could affect the future of the party.

[John Cassidy]

So, I mean, I think the Democrats do appeal to the youth, so they don't have a youth problem. The youth is to the left of the center of the party. It appears that's good news for the party, that they've got a lot of people who are mobilized, who are interested in politics and who are going to be part of the Democratic Party for the next 20, 30 years. The problem is that the actual party itself has lost its young bench, largely due to what's been happening at the local level over the last 10 or 15 years. Some of it's redistricting, some of it is anti Obama feeling in the South. If you look back to the 80s, what rescued it, it was the Southern governors, Clinton and Gore. Now they really don't exist anymore. Democratic Southern governors, to a large extent, places like Arkansas and Tennessee are now completely run by the Republicans. That's one of the reasons the party has gone all in on Hillary, I think. If you take Hillary away, who's the alternative candidate? Where's the young Marco Rubio type on the center left? Ryan, who follows this stuff more closely than I do? Do you think there's anybody out there? Ryan?

[Ryan Lizza]

No. It's one of the underreported stories of the Obama era is just how devastated the state and local level the Democrats have been. It's the 2010 and 2014 elections. That's where the next crop of senators and governors who would have looked at the 2016 presidential campaign would have come from, right? They would have been elected in 2010, or, you know, if they were politically active at the state level, they would have taken that step up to a governor's mansion or the Senate, and they're just not out there. And the few that are, you know, big state governors like Andrew Cuomo in New York, he probably would have run if Hillary hadn't. So two things. One, the bench is very weak. And then she was so powerful, just had the party apparatus so locked up that the few remaining governors and senators who might have run decided to take a pass because she was too tough.

[Dorothy Wickenden]

And all of this raises questions about Hillary's running mate, if she gets that far, which seems likely. But one more question, Ryan, about Obama and all of the excitement and all of the grassroots activism that he took advantage of brilliantly in 2008, what has happened to all of those supporters?

[Ryan Lizza]

Part of it is that the Obama campaign, as it transitioned from the campaign into government, didn't really see keeping that grassroots engaged as a major priority and didn't have a plan for them. And the dnc, which should have been responsible for that, sort of fell down on the job. And then if there's no role for you in the Obama administration, if you're a young activist who is very excited about Obama, but there's no apparatus that's connecting you to the government. You sort of drift away and do other things with your life. Right. I think the other thing is people got very disillusioned, especially after the 2010 midterm elections, when the entire Obama agenda just sort of screeched to a stop and the dysfunction in Washington took over, and a lot of the high expectations that Obama set in his campaign were dashed. Which brings you to the Hillary Bernie fight. Hillary's sort of saying, let's not do that again. Let's not get expectations too high here. Let's work within the system, figure out what can be accomplished in a system of government that is almost designed for gridlock. And Sanders is saying, no, no, no, we need a political revolution. If you saw last night when he was asked about, how are you going to get this stuff done? His answer was very Obama, like, right? Obama in 2008 used to say, we've got to fix our politics before we can fix the policy. And Hillary Clinton used to roll her eyes at that. And now Sanders is doing the same thing, right? He's saying he can't do it alone. He needs this massive awakening in the electorate and all these new people to flood into the system. That's the only way he could actually win and pass his agenda.

[Dorothy Wickenden]

What about the grassroots movements we've been seeing? You mentioned Occupy earlier. There have been very successful efforts at city and state levels to lobby for a rise in the minimum wage. Black Lives Matter is growing all the time. So we are seeing these outbreaks. Are they adding up to something significant?

[John Cassidy]

I think they are. I mean, it's not just in the US as well. We're seeing these sort of populist movements springing up all over Europe, forming different political parties in parts of Europe, Syriza in Greece and Pademas in Spain. Part of it is the impact of technology. It's much easier to mobilize people online through social networks, et cetera, than it used to be. And Bernie's very good at that. The Sanders campaign is largely online, just as Obama's was. So I think it does matter. But I think where are we? We're just before the New Hampshire primary. This was always going to be Hillary Clinton's tricky spot, the first two primaries. We really have to wait and see what happens in New Hampshire. Does she mount a bit of a comeback? If she even finishes close, it will be a good result for her. And then move on to Nevada and South Carolina. If Bernie's still running strong after South Carolina, you know, we've got a huge, huge story. But if she comes back and wins comfortably in South Carolina, as most people think she will, and ekes out a victory in Nevada, then things will look very different at the end of February than they did at the start of February.

[Dorothy Wickenden]

And then, Ryan, final question. If she gets that far, is that enough for her going forward to help realign the Democratic Party, or do more significant measures need to be taken?

[Ryan Lizza]

Even if Bernie does well in South Carolina and the race goes on for a while, you still have to imagine that she's the favorite to win in the long term. Even if he mounts a much stronger challenge than anyone anticipates right now. And so in the general election, the thing that she'll need is to excite the coalition that Obama put together in 08 and 2012, and that's young people. Much larger percentages of non white voters than the Democrats had been able to turn out before 2008 holding their own with the white vote. I think that's an open question. Is the African American support and the support in the Latino community that Obama was able to win, does that really translate to any Democrat, or is it something just unique to who he is? We don't have an answer to that yet. And if Sanders somehow taps into non white voters in the primaries and exposes a weakness that Hillary Clinton has with that segment of the Democratic electorate, that will give us some evidence about how strong or weak she is in the general.

[Dorothy Wickenden]

Okay, thank you both very much. Ryan Lissa is the magazine's Washington correspondent. John Cassidy is a staff writer and the author of How Markets the Logic of Economic Calamities. This is the Political Scene. This podcast is produced by Alex Barron. For newyorker.com, i'm Dorothy Wickenden.

[John Cassidy]

You can subscribe to this and other New Yorker podcasts in the iTunes store. You can find past episodes of the New Yorker out loud, the Political Scene, and the New Yorker's fiction and poetry [e-mail] podcast the weekly audio edition of the New Yorker is [e-mail].

[Katie Drummond]

What the hell is going on right now and why is it happening like this? At Wired, we're obsessed with getting to the bottom of those questions on a daily basis. And maybe you are, too. I'm Katie Drummond, the global editorial director of Wired, and I'm hosting our new podcast series, the Big Interview. Each week I'll sit down with some of the most interesting, provocative and influential people who are shaping our right now. Big Interview conversations are fun. I want a shark that that eats the Internet, that turns it all off, unfiltered and unafraid. So in a lot of ways, I.

[John Cassidy]

Try to be an antidote to the.

[Katie Drummond]

Unimaginable faucet of reactionary content that you see online. To the best of my ability, every week, we're going to offer you the ultimate luxury of our times, meaning and context. True or false. You, Brian Johnson, the man sitting across from me. One day, at some point, as of yet undefined in the future, you will die. False. Tell me more. Listen to the Big Interview right now, in the same place you find WIRED's Uncanny Valley podcast. Subscribe or follow wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ryan Lizza]

From. PRX.