Beto O’Rourke Struggles to Find His Place in the Democratic Presidential Field

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Episode: Beto O’Rourke Struggles to Find His Place in the Democratic Presidential Field
Date: May 30, 2019
Host: Dorothy Wickenden (Executive Editor, The New Yorker)
Guest: William Finnegan (Staff Writer, The New Yorker)

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Overview:

This episode explores Beto O’Rourke’s early presidential campaign struggles following his high-profile 2018 Texas Senate race. Host Dorothy Wickenden and reporter William Finnegan discuss O’Rourke’s rapid rise and fall in the polls, his campaign strategy, policy positions, and broader questions about what Democratic voters are seeking in a candidate to challenge Donald Trump.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Beto’s Post-Senate Campaign Trajectory (03:06–04:50)

• Texas Success, National Struggles:
  • O’Rourke’s strategy for the presidency borrows from his Texas Senate approach (“showing up for everybody”), but that doesn’t scale nationally.
  • William Finnegan: “You just can’t get to the whole nation coffee shop by coffee shop.” (03:27)
• Loss of Focused Opposition:
  • In Texas, O’Rourke benefited from running against the unpopular Ted Cruz. Without a singular Republican opponent in the primary, he is “lost in the shuffle” among 20+ Democrats.

2. Image and Critiques: Privilege, “Show-Up-ism,” and Policy Vagueness (04:50–06:55)

• Media & Public Perception:
  • O’Rourke faced criticisms over being a privileged white male and for embarking on self-reflective road trips and blog entries after his Senate loss.
  • Finnegan: “Who does this guy think he is?” (05:21)
• Unclear Policy Identity:
  • Compared to Warren, Sanders, and Buttigieg, O’Rourke often speaks in generalities—“living our values and showing up for everybody”—making his policy positions hard to pin down.

3. Policy Positions: Immigration and Climate Change (07:52–11:22)

• Immigration:
  • O’Rourke’s border familiarity sets him apart. His stance is moderate; he does not support abolishing ICE but calls for ending internal raids and increasing aid to Central America.
  • Finnegan: “He’s quite specific about what he will do and what he won’t do. And he connects border security very much to foreign policy.” (08:49)
• Climate Change:
  • Supports the Green New Deal in spirit, but his plan ($5 trillion over 10 years for net zero emissions by 2050) is seen as less ambitious than some want.
  • Environmental groups have mixed reactions.
  • Finnegan: “It’s gigantic...but it’s not soon enough” for some activists. (10:43)
• Past Moderate Record:
  • O’Rourke’s record in the House includes votes favored by Republicans and the oil industry, a vulnerability from the left.
  • Finnegan: “Other votes with Republicans...he finds hard to defend now.” (09:58)

4. Shift in Campaign Tone: Attacking Trump (11:53–13:21)

• Strategic Reboot:
  • O’Rourke historically avoided direct Trump attacks, preferring inclusive rhetoric. Recently, he’s begun highlighting Trump’s policies and failures in TV interviews to resonate nationally.
  • Finnegan on O’Rourke: "He doesn't like to demonize Republicans...but I've noticed this kind of reboot where he started doing television...suddenly he's talking about Trump and getting those cheers from the crowd." (12:31)
• Contrasts with Biden:
  • Biden consistently centers Trump in his campaign and is rewarded with high poll numbers and national attention.
  • Wickenden on Biden’s launch video: “If we give Donald Trump eight years in the White House, he will forever and fundamentally change the character of this nation.” (13:17)

5. The Search for the “Next Obama” & the 2020 Democratic Field (15:22–19:58)

• Beto as a (Now Fading) Phenom:
  • Earlier, some Democratic voters saw O’Rourke as an Obama-like figure, but that spotlight has shifted to Pete Buttigieg.
  • Finnegan: “There was all this buzz around O’Rourke...he was that kind of rock star...but he hasn't been in this campaign.” (15:55)
• The Buttigieg and Warren Effect:
  • Buttigieg is a media darling but hasn't broken through with voters yet.
  • Warren is gaining momentum, becoming a better campaigner, and is praised for her policy depth and compelling personal story, though she faces gender bias.
  • Finnegan on Warren: “She can take questions, she's sort of loose on her feet, she's funny, and she has an incredible sort of rags to riches story, which...are all quite powerful.” (18:54)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• O’Rourke on his campaign style:

  “No me importa. I do not care how red or blue, rural or urban, I'm showing up to listen to them. And what they're telling me is they want this country to come together around our shared challenges.” (01:58)

• Finnegan on O’Rourke’s generalities:

  “He talks in these maddening generalities about living our values and showing up for everybody.” (06:38)

• Finnegan on the current mood among Democrats:

  “Democrats who aren't sold on Biden seem to be in search of the next Barack Obama...and now many of them are saying, oh, Pete Buttigieg.” (15:22)

• Finnegan on Warren’s growth as a candidate:

  “If she’s given the space…I expect Warren will be able to actually show herself in a way that will surprise a lot of voters.” (19:44)

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Key Timestamps

• 01:16 – Introduction to O’Rourke's campaign and the context of the 2020 race
• 03:06 – Analysis of O’Rourke’s fading momentum and campaign missteps
• 04:50 – Critique of O’Rourke’s public image and early struggles
• 06:55 – Discussion about the lack of clear policy proposals
• 07:52 – Immigration experience and positions
• 09:58 – O’Rourke’s moderate voting record and climate policy
• 12:20 – Growing willingness to confront Trump directly
• 13:56 – How Biden, Buttigieg, Warren, and O’Rourke are approaching the primary field
• 15:22 – Commentary on the search for a charismatic, “Obama-like” Democratic candidate
• 18:37 – Warren’s strengths and increase in campaign visibility

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Episode Tone

The conversation is analytical but conversational, mixing deep reporting with candid assessments. Finnegan’s observations are honest—sometimes blunt—yet respectful, reflecting the current sense of uncertainty among Democrats seeking both direction and inspiration.

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This summary covers all substantive political discussions in the episode, omitting advertisements, intros, and outros.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

This is the Political Scene, a weekly conversation with New Yorker writers and editors about Politics. It's Thursday, May 30th. I'm Dorothy Wickenden, executive editor of the New Yorker. Beto O' Rourke almost defeated Ted Cruz in the 2018 Texas Senate race. Although there will be another open Senate seat in 2020, O' Rourke announced on March 14 that he would compete instead for the Democratic presidential nomination. He raised $6 million in the first 24 hours of his campaign, but most early polls now show him near the bottom of a crowded field. This week, as part of a campaign reboot, he joined Margaret Brennan for an interview on Face the Nation.

[C]

Look, I feel really good about the way that we're campaigning. I'm going to people where they are in their communities. No me importa. I do not care how red or blue, rural or urban, I'm showing up to listen to them. And what they're telling me is they want this country to come together around our shared challenges. They want people to be able to see a doctor or afford their prescription medications. They want this economy to work for everyone, so that folks don't have to work two or three jobs just to get by. They want us to address this ballooning student loan debt crisis. They want to make sure that we confront climate change before it is too late for this and every generation that follows. So I'm listening to them more than I am to the headline writers.

[B]

William Finnegan joins me to discuss o' Rourke's struggling candidacy, the other candidates and and the Democratic Party's search for someone who can defeat Donald Trump. Bill, welcome.

[D]

Ah, glad to be here.

[B]

You have spent quite a bit of time with Beto o' Rourke in recent weeks in Texas and Iowa in particular. Why do you think his star faded so quickly, at least in this early phase of the campaign?

[D]

Well, I think he had a bad strategy, really, this idea. He talks about showing up for everybody as kind of his not just his campaign philosophy. It goes beyond that. It's his sort of post partisan, I'm going to call it, show upism. When he ran for Senate in Texas, he said, I'm going to visit all 254 counties. You know, and he did. Driving himself. This is kind of his thing. And he's very much brought that Senate campaign strategy into this presidential race. It worked great in Texas. I mean, he didn't win, but he came very close to beating Cruz. Big surprise. And you know, red, red Texas. But on the national stage especially, I mean, you just can't get to the whole nation coffee shop by coffee shop. And so there's that. And he talks about visiting really Republican communities and hearing what they have to say. And that's all very well, but in a Democratic primary, it actually doesn't make much sense. You're looking for Democratic votes and the Republicans are not going to be voting in your caucuses or your primaries. So there's that sort of tactical mistake. There's also just the fact that last year when he kind of caught on nationally, that's how he raised so much money for his Senate campaign, was national donors all over the country kind of heard about this guy. He raised $80 million for the Senate race, which is a record. He was running against Ted Cruz. He didn't.

[B]

Not the most popular member of the Senate, exact opposite.

[D]

Not even in Texas. And so he doesn't have an opponent to sort of focus the minds. Like now, in fact, he's running against 20 relatively progressive Democrats. And he's just kind of lost in the shuffle, really.

[B]

He began to come under attack pretty quickly as a privileged white male. And, you know, these endless road trips where he seemed to be communing with himself, even though he makes such a big point of going on these listening tours. How much was that a factor in the decline?

[D]

Well, yeah, there was this period after he lost in the Senate in November when he was trying to decide what to do next. And he had actually said on 60 Minutes, I am not running in 2020. And now here he was being sort of publicly besieged. I mean, he went on TV with Oprah Winfrey, who was basically begging him, what will it take to get to say yes to run for the president, to run for presidency. So he went through this self described funk and kind of drove around, blogged on Medium and so on, and became kind of risible, I think, to a certain number of people, like, who does this guy think he is? And in various other kind of gaffes and missteps. As he came up to the announcement in March, he left himself quite open to mockery criticism and ended up doing a sort of apology tour.

[B]

During the rollout, a number of Democratic leaders, too, were upset that he didn't want to run for this new open Senate seat. The Senate desperately needs more Democratic candidates. Did you talk to him about that?

[D]

I did ask him about it. He mentioned other people who are planning to run who he thinks are strong candidates and he plans to support. I think, though, that it would be tough. He wouldn't have that good a chance. I mean, he didn't beat Ted Cruz, whom everybody loathes. Even in Texas, John Cornyn is not as vulnerable, so that'd be a very tough race.

[B]

I think it's not all that easy to run for the presidency either. But he talks in these maddening generalities about living our values and showing up for everybody. But interestingly, compared to Elizabeth Warren, Pete Buttigieg and Bernie Sanders, say, just to name three, all of whom have really clear policy proposals. It's hard to figure out exactly what he believes.

[D]

Yeah, he has these great generalities that I try to get to the bottom of asking him and generally interro. But he has rolled out a couple of big policy proposals. One on climate change just yesterday, a big one on immigration. A lot of people, including Buttigieg, actually have come under pressure, like, what are you going to do? Like what are the. Elizabeth Warren is so far out in front and she's thought through all kinds of things that other candidates seem not to have. Of course, Bernie has a sort of carryover plan and vision. His politics are very clear. Nobody would ask him for that sort of stuff. But o' Rourke is definitely Having to sort of bulk up and be ready for that stuff. And he's a little late to it. Although his idea, his philosophy is very much, I need to listen, I need to learn, I need to find out what matters to people and then I will. Which, you know, you're doing it on the fly. The campaign has begun.

[B]

So he is from El Paso, so that distinguishes him from everybody else. What is his immigration plan?

[D]

Well, this thing he's just rolled out is basically things he's been saying for a while. He's very familiar with the border. I mean, he grew up on the border. When he was in Congress, he was in the Homeland Security Committee working on border issues. Some of the legislation he co sponsored with Republicans that passed, it's all about beefing up points of entry and enhancing cross border trade. I mean, this is kind of a field of expertise for him. And so as a result, for instance, I mean, there are a number of purity questions that the Democratic candidates are being asked. Will you abolish ice? That's one of them. You're supposed to say, yes, of course. And he emphatically says no. He knows ICE quite well and works with him. And plenty of people who work for ICE live in his district or his former congressional district. He has certainly been critical of ICE abuses under Obama as well as under Trump and will say something like, I immediately end internal ICE raids. Those are raids in towns and communities far from the border, far from the migrant trail. Something that's not provoked by criminal behavior or border security. It's just an ICE policy that he opposes. I mean, he's quite specific about what he will do and what he won't do. And he connects border security very much to foreign policy. President Trump has threatened to. He's actually following through on this threat.

[B]

To cut off aid to.

[D]

Yeah, to cut off aid to the Northern Triangle countries that are called Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala, where most of the recent asylum seekers have come from. And o' Rourke knows quite a bit about those countries. His wife has taught school in Guatemala, and he's taken a particular interest in it. And he thinks we should, you know, double and redouble aid to those countries to help them build civil society and peace so that people won't be fleeing. And that's, to him, part of immigration policy.

[B]

And his record in the House is pretty moderate, and he voted with Republicans a fair number of times.

[D]

Yeah, that's a vulnerability now for him. I mean, his main vulnerabilities in the Democratic race are from the left, and he has some votes A couple of votes that the oil industry liked to lift an oil export ban and another to expedite drilling in the eastern Gulf of Mexico. And other votes with Republicans that I think he finds hard to defend now.

[B]

So where does he stand on climate change?

[D]

I mean, he supports the Green New Deal, the proposal put forward, very ambitious proposal by Representative Alexandria Ocasio Cortez and Senator Joe Markey earlier this year. O' Rourke's plan, which he rolled out a few weeks ago, is not quite that ambitious. I mean, it's $5 trillion. It's gigantic over 10 years, but with a goal of zero net emissions by 2050. So environmental organizations, Greenpeace, the League of Conservation Voters. He has quite a good record with them. You know, they like it. Other groups like the Sunrise Movement, youth led environmental organization, don't like it. It's not, you know, that's not soon enough. But it's pretty serious policy proposals. I mean, the oil and gas industry is not going to be happy if anything close to this comes out.

[E]

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[D]

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[E]

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[D]

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[A]

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[E]

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[D]

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[B]

Interestingly, I noticed in your piece for the New Yorker, he has not up until this point invoked Trump as he's out there campaigning. But in his interview with Brennan, he accused the president of being both the arsonist and the firefighter in his recently announced bailout of American farmers amid the trade war with China and of escalating tensions and provoking war in the Middle East. So that seems to be part of this reboot.

[D]

Yes, I've noticed that shift on the trail. I saw him in plenty of events in Iowa and New Hampshire and South Carolina. Yeah, he sort of stays away from attacking Trump, which is a sure applause line. In fact, he says the biggest applause line in every talk I give is when I end a sentence. Defeat Donald Trump, people just. But he's kind of stayed away from that. He doesn't like to demonize Republicans. It's this positive thing, we're all in this together type stuff. But it's true. I've noticed this kind of reboot where he started doing television, realizing this is a national campaign. I need to reach a national audience. And so he's been on Face the Nation and the View and Rachel Maddow and so on lately. He did a CNN town hall. And in those appearances, which have all been in the past couple of weeks, he's suddenly he's talking about Trump and getting those cheers from the crowd in the case of a CNN town hall and being more I wouldn't use the word divisive but specific about here's the opponent.

[B]

Biden has been unsparing in his attacks, really making Trump the centerpiece of his campaign. You know, he said in his announcement video, I believe history will look back on these four years at this president and all he embraces as an aberrant moment in time. But if we give Donald Trump eight years in the White House, he will forever and fundamentally change the character of this nation. So he's gambling and so far quite successfully, that that's the way to win. Based on your reporting in these two key states, Iowa and Texas, what are you picking up about how the Democrats should take on Trump?

[D]

Biden's a little bit, you know, sort of above the fray in that way. He's not running against these other Democratic hopefuls. He comes in with the strongest poll numbers, by far the greatest name recognition and I think rightly just sort of concentrates his fire on Trump. This is what we're about in the next election. The other candidates with less name recognition, the two dozen, they can do that, but there's nothing particularly distinguishing about them. I mean, you won't hear Biden, I don't think pressed as you hear new candidates like Buttigieg and o'. Rourke. But what are you going to do? What's your program? Give us more policy proposals? Biden won't get that really. He's in a position to concentrate his fire on the the real opponent across the way. I think that plays very, very well nationally. I don't know about over the long sort of ground game grind of the first primary states, you have people like o' Rourke down on the ground learning all about soybeans and talking about them knowledgeably to people in Iowa. And they eat that up, so to speak, from what I've seen. But as far as I can tell, Biden's not planning to campaign in that way. I mean, his very light schedule so far, these almost sort of ceremonial events, he's down on the ground driving himself from place to place like o' Rourke is. So it's really a different scale and a different approach.

[B]

Democrats who aren't sold on Biden seem to be in search of the next Barack Obama. And I was thinking about this yesterday, and I went back to your very early piece about Obama when he was running in the Illinois Senate race. Kirk Dillard, who was a Republican state senator, told you then that he knew from the first day he walked into the chamber that he was destined for great things and that Republicans feared that he would become a rock star. Do you see this? I mean, I feel like Democrats initially thought, oh, Beto o', Rourke, maybe he's the next Obama. And now many of them are saying.

[D]

Oh, Pete Buttigieg, yeah, that is exactly what people say, and I think it's sort of what President Trump fears. There was all this buzz around o' Rourke during the Senate campaign and even after he lost. In fact, Cruz's campaign manager, the day after he lost said, this guy's a phenom. There's nobody else with this kind of talent in the Democratic Party. I don't know what he would do if he didn't run for president now. I mean, you don't know how much kind of psychological gaming there is in that. But he was that kind of rock star, as they say in the Texas campaign, and hasn't been in this campaign so far. But I think, like Trump, for instance, in February went to El Paso and did a rally right by the border that some people were calling the kickoff rally for his 2020 campaign. And I think he was nervous about O', Rourke, who had a dueling rally just down the street. And of course, Trump wildly exaggerated the size of his crowd and said nobody went to see Beto and that kind of stuff. But I think he was worried that this was some kind of phenom, perhaps, as he was such a phenomenon. Trump, he just rose past all these much more qualified candidates than himself in the Republican primaries and stayed above them. His numbers just went up and stayed up. It was like the laws of political gravity were suspended. And I think he was a little worried that this o' Rourke might be that, and so far he's proved not to be. But the Democrats are looking for such a person.

[B]

Mayor PETE until just a week or so ago, he too, seemed to defy the laws of gravity, at least, you know, as the press was reporting on him. And now he seems to be trailing down a little bit.

[D]

Well, he's a perfect sort of candidate for the media, and he's so good on television and podcasts, and you name it, he's really put together. But I don't think he's really caught on with the voters yet. I mean, the polls don't reflect any big movement toward him. He's become a midfield figure. He's perhaps third or fourth. O' Rourke's down to maybe sixth now, but almost all those people are in single digits. I mean, it's only Sanders usually and Biden who come in double digits in these polls. And these polls, of course, don't mean all that much at this point. I think Biden's numbers, for instance, are very, very soft. You see them at 45%. That could collapse with one big mistake. And I think there's a lot of ammunition lying around in Biden's past that could be problematic. And so these are things that are not in any way definitive at this moment. But Buttigieg is, I think, in a strong position. He can only rise, I think.

[B]

And Elizabeth Warren is. I've been struck with her in the last couple of weeks how much better a campaigner she has become. You've been watching her pretty closely. What do you think?

[D]

I agree. And I also think it's just that she's getting a little more attention so that she's not just appearing on the news in these five second clips that are inevitably, you know, when she shakes her fist and shouts the sort of high point of a speech perhaps. But if you give her a little more time, not only does she have a credible command of policy and what she wants to do and around economics and democracy generally, I mean, she's really, really strong, but she's professorial in sort of the good sense. She can take questions. She's sort of loose on her feet, she's funny and she has an incredible sort of rags to riches story, which I've heard short versions, medium versions, long versions of it, they're all quite powerful, coming from real poverty in Oklahoma. And it connects to policy. She's got a lot of strengths as a campaigner. And if she, I mean, I think there's a lot of gender bias she needs to overcome, as of course Hillary did and Kamala Harris does too. But if she's sort of given the space, I expect in the debates. There's going to be some debates in June, finally. I mean, finally a year and a half early. But the Democrats are going to start having public debates and I expect Warren will be able to actually show herself in a way that will surprise a lot of voters because she really is disserved. Her warmth is not there in those five second clips of her shouting something.

[B]

Thanks so much, Bill. William Finnegan is a New Yorker staff writer and the author of Barbarian Days, which won the Pulitzer Prize for biography in 2016. This has been the political scene. You can subscribe to this and other New Yorker podcasts by searching for the New Yorker in your podcast app, and find more political analysis and commentary on newyorker.com feel free to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Our theme music is by Russell Gillespie. This program is produced by Alex barron for new yorker.com with assistance from Kylie Warner. I'm Dorothy Wickenden.

[E]

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[D]

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[D]

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