Podcast Summary: The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Episode: Brexit Blues
Date: June 22, 2017
Host: Dorothy Wickenden
Guest: Sam Knight (London-based contributor to The New Yorker)

Overview

This episode, hosted by Dorothy Wickenden, marks the first anniversary of the Brexit referendum—a seismic event leading Britain toward withdrawal from the European Union. Against this backdrop of political upheaval, the discussion centers on recent national tragedies (notably the Grenfell Tower fire), Theresa May’s fraught leadership, the shifting fortunes of the Labour Party under Jeremy Corbyn, and the complicated future of Britain’s political landscape.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Grenfell Tower Fire as a Political Flashpoint

• Scene and Response:
  • Sam Knight recounts his experience arriving at Grenfell Tower hours after the fire. The disaster is described as immediately traumatic, both emotionally and politically, with visible public anger and trauma.
  • "You could feel immediately that this was going to be a nationally sort of traumatic event." — Sam Knight (03:57)
• Symbolism:
  • The fire becomes a symbol of the UK's growing social and economic divides, exposing governmental neglect and a failing social safety net.

2. Theresa May’s Political Crisis

• Timeline of Events:
  • The Grenfell disaster struck just days after May’s disappointing showing in a snap general election, leaving her government weakened and the nation questioning her leadership.
• Leadership Critique:
  • May’s delayed response and perceived aloofness fuels criticism, as she is seen addressing only emergency workers and not the affected residents.
  • "It immediately seemed that she was out of touch and slow to respond." — Sam Knight (05:16)
• Election Miscalculation:
  • The snap election, intended to secure a dominant majority for Brexit negotiations, backfires due to a campaign seen as narrow and unfeeling.

3. The Conservative Manifesto Misstep

• Policy Disconnect:
  • May’s original two-pronged promise (Brexit and domestic intervention for struggling Britons, aka "JAMs: just about managings") was undermined by a campaign focused solely on a hard Brexit, alienating her base.
  • "All there was was this quite antagonistic austere Brexit policy and not much else." — Sam Knight (07:10)

4. Labour’s Resurgence and Internal Contradictions

• Corbyn’s Paradox:
  • Despite his ambiguous stance on Brexit and past skepticism of the EU, Jeremy Corbyn’s campaign energizes supporters seeking authenticity, lifting Labour’s performance well beyond expectations.
• Divided Base:
  • Labour remains split: northern, pro-Brexit supporters versus urban, pro-Remain constituents, leading to an unsustainable ambiguity in its Brexit position.
  • "Labour are benefiting from a lot of kind of positivity, but actually not too much scrutiny of their position, which is also an incredibly confused one." — Sam Knight (08:20)

5. The Youth Vote and Anti-Nationalist Sentiment

• Corbyn’s Youth Appeal:
  • While there’s energy around Corbyn, data shows youth turnout was consistent with the Brexit referendum, complicating the narrative that young voters alone powered Labour’s gains.
• Emerging Coalition:
  • Success attributed not just to youth, but to a diverse coalition of urban, well-educated, and healthier voters aligning against “backward looking nationalism.”

6. Blairism, the Third Way, and Brexit’s Deeper Roots

• Blair’s View:
  • Tony Blair sees Brexit as a repudiation of his centrist, pro-Europe legacy—the internationalist "Third Way" he championed now deeply out of favor.
  • "For talking to Tony Blair, it's clear that he can't believe this is happening because he thinks he solved this." — Sam Knight (13:03)

7. National Mood Reflected by the Queen

• Tone Shift:
  • Both the Queen’s birthday address and the State Opening of Parliament are remarkably somber and understated, reflecting the public’s sense of national disorientation and gloom.
• Brexit-Dominated Legislative Agenda:
  • Of 24 pieces of new legislation, a third are Brexit-related, underscoring how the withdrawal process will consume British politics for years.
  • "There is this sort of grim tone of buckling down, as it were." — Sam Knight (14:44)

8. Hard vs. Soft Brexit: Shifting Political Language

• Softening Stance:
  • The election result is widely seen as a rejection of the most extreme (“hard”) Brexit, with growing conversation around models that would keep the UK connected to the EU’s single market and customs union, similar to Norway or Switzerland.
• Terminology Overload:
  • "British politics and the media at the moment [are] just attaching a whole load of words to the word Brexit...Hard Brexit, Soft Brexit, Extreme Hard Brexit..." — Sam Knight (14:52–15:30)

9. The Trump Factor

• Trump’s Absence and (Un)popularity:
  • The US president’s planned visit seems increasingly unlikely amid deep unpopularity and controversial exchanges with London Mayor Sadiq Khan.
  • "If you're any senior official in the British government at the moment, the last thing you want is an email from the White House trying to fix this trip." — Sam Knight (16:24)

Notable Quotes

• On the Grenfell Tragedy:
  “It was immediate and it was unforced and it didn’t feel like journalists were putting microphones under people’s noses and guiding them… it was just an immediate anger flowing from the situation.”
  — Sam Knight (03:42)

• On Theresa May’s Perception:
  “There was this immediate sense that the Queen was somehow plugging more into the national mood than she was.”
  — Sam Knight (13:34)

• On Labour's Brexit Problem:
  “Labour MPs will sort of have the freedom to tell them what they want to hear as well. So the Labour Party itself is incredibly and unsustainably, I would suggest, divided on quite what the outcome it wants from all this as well.”
  — Sam Knight (09:20)

• On the Extended Brexit Process:
  “This is actually an extended two-year period because of the complexity of the Brexit negotiations and rather in keeping with the kind of thin tone of the Conservative manifesto.”
  — Sam Knight (14:20)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Overview of National Crises — 01:16–02:40
• Grenfell Tower Fire & Political Impact — 02:40–04:23
• Theresa May’s Leadership Woes — 04:23–05:40
• Conservative Manifesto and Election Misstep — 05:40–08:08
• Labour Party Position & Corbyn — 08:08–09:39
• Youth Vote, Urban Coalition — 10:24–11:27
• Tony Blair and the Third Way — 11:27–13:13
• Queen’s Addresses Reflect Public Mood — 13:13–14:44
• Brexit: Hard vs. Soft & Political Language — 14:44–15:59
• Trump’s Relationship with Britain — 15:59–17:10

Conclusion

This episode presents a rich, behind-the-scenes look at the United Kingdom’s tumultuous political moment in the summer of 2017. Through personal reportage and thoughtful analysis, Dorothy Wickenden and Sam Knight unpack the intertwining crises of political leadership, societal dislocation, and the existential uncertainty introduced by Brexit. The episode highlights the deep national soul-searching underway, the complexities of party politics, and the ways in which recent tragedies have become touchstones for a broader debate about the UK's future.