Podcast Summary: The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Episode: Can Trump Make Peace with Kim Jong-Un?
Date: March 9, 2018
Host: Dorothy Wickenden (Executive Editor, The New Yorker)
Guest: Robin Wright (Contributing Writer, The New Yorker)
(Non-content segments, advertisements, and cross-promos omitted)

Episode Overview

This episode analyzes President Trump’s surprising announcement to meet North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un—a move that startled even his own advisors. Host Dorothy Wickenden and guest Robin Wright explore the context and global repercussions of Trump’s ad hoc style of foreign policy, focusing on shifting alliances, the state of autocracy versus democracy, deepening Russia-Iran ties, and prospects for peace and denuclearization in Korea. The conversation is laced with skepticism, historic perspective, and sharp commentary on the complexities of diplomacy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Shock Announcement and Its Context

• Trump's abrupt acceptance of a meeting with Kim Jong-Un is seen as another example of his unpredictable approach to foreign policy.
• The announcement “served one of its immediate goals of distracting everyone from a blizzard of headlines” surrounding the Mueller investigation, steel and aluminum tariffs, and lawsuits. (01:16)

“The announcement is completely in keeping with Trump’s ad hoc foreign policy, especially when it comes to dealing with autocratic regimes.”
— Dorothy Wickenden (01:16)

2. Erosion of U.S. Alliances and the Rise of New Partnerships

• Severed U.S.-Iran ties have pushed Iran into closer partnership with Russia, disrupting traditional balances in the Middle East.
• Robin Wright describes a notable shift:
  • Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif’s comments in Moscow about fostering a “new paradigm” in the Persian Gulf, facilitated by Russian involvement. (03:40)
  • Noteworthy that a prior U.S.-Iran backchannel is now “on the qt.”
  • “The U.S…. has pushed us into the arms of the Russians,” quoting an Iranian analyst. (04:06)

“What’s happened instead as President Trump has opted to move away from the Iran nuclear deal, is that the Iranians have moved very close to the Russians.... The United States, whether intentionally or unintentionally, has pushed us into the arms of the Russians.”
— Robin Wright (04:06)

3. The Syria War and the U.S. Absence

• Assad’s regime, propped up by Russia, Iran, and Hezbollah, now controls most of Syria—defying earlier Western expectations. (06:59)
• The U.S. focus has narrowed to fighting ISIS, ceding broader influence to Moscow and Tehran over Syria's fate.
• Putin’s “victory declaration” is seen as solidifying autocratic control, with little U.S. resistance. (08:14)

“Because the US hasn’t been pushing back… by default the Russians and the Iranians are controlling the destiny of Syria.”
— Robin Wright (06:59)

4. America’s Retreat and the Global Autocracy Trend

• Trump’s policy is described as “ad hoc and almost whimsical,” undermining alliances like the EU and NATO, walking away from TPP, and renegotiating NAFTA. (11:15)
• Notably, a global downturn in democracy is observed—more than a third of countries declining in civil rights (Freedom House, 2017) (10:42).
• The resulting vacuum enables autocrats to grow entrenched, challenging the momentum of liberal democracy post-Cold War.

“Some of the autocrats, have become so entrenched that the wave of freedom and the belief that liberal ideas of democracy were prevailing worldwide have now been totally put in doubt.”
— Robin Wright (11:15)

5. Trump’s Approach to Diplomacy and North Korea

• Confusion reigns among allies and adversaries: "Does Tillerson speak for the government? Does Kushner? And then, you know, add to that the President's mercurial temperament…" (12:58)
• Skepticism abounds about Kim Jong-Un’s willingness to denuclearize and Trump’s capacity to negotiate such a deal.
• Wright draws on her firsthand visit to North Korea during prior talks, highlighting immense complexities:
  • The Iran deal took two years and produced a 159-page agreement, even though Iran lacked a weapon at the time.
  • North Korea possesses at least 20 nuclear weapons and advanced missiles.
  • Hasty, leader-to-leader diplomacy risks U.S. leverage and preparation. (13:50)

“The president has everything to lose. Kim Jong Un has everything to gain. He's got the most powerful leader in the world traveling to meet the world's most isolated man.”
— Robin Wright (13:50)

6. Trump’s Historical Aspirations as a Nuclear Negotiator

• Trump’s self-image as a nuclear dealmaker dates to the late ‘80s:
  • He once lobbied to be Reagan’s START negotiator.
  • His negotiation tactic involved bluster: “I would have stood up and shouted, fuck you and walked out.” (16:17)
  • Lacked understanding of the issues, as evidenced when he had to ask aides about the START treaty post-inauguration (15:59)

“He thought he had the skills to make a deal, but he didn’t really know the issue. And I think that’s what people are afraid of this time around.”
— Robin Wright (16:17)

Memorable Quotes

• “The alliances… playing out in the Middle East has shifted dramatically, too.”
  — Robin Wright (04:06)

• “This is one of the most brutal, ruthless leaders anywhere in the world, responsible for the deaths of up to half a million people… creating one of the greatest humanitarian crises since World War II.”
  — Robin Wright on Assad (06:59)

• “He has challenged the basic foundations and alliances that have prevailed since the end of the Second World War…”
  — Robin Wright (11:15)

• “At the end of the day, they're supposed to talk about denuclearization… but it can be interpreted in a lot of different ways.”
  — Robin Wright (13:50)

• “The START negotiations, one of the most sophisticated set of negotiations ever conducted, took several years and did eventually lead to a nuclear agreement…”
  — Robin Wright (16:17)

Important Timestamps

• Trump’s Threat to North Korea, UN Speech Recap: 01:16
• U.S.-Iran-Russia Realignment: 04:06
• Iran and Russia’s Role in Syria: 06:59
• Freedom House Democracy Decline, Autocracy Trend: 10:42
• Confusion in Trump’s Foreign Policy Team: 12:58
• Skepticism on Korean Denuclearization Talks: 13:50
• Trump’s 1989 Nuclear Negotiator Story: 15:59

Conclusion

The episode delivers a sharply critical, deeply informed perspective on Trump’s foreign policy and its potential consequences—especially in the context of the announced summit with Kim Jong-Un. The hosts illuminate a picture of fraying alliances, resurgent autocracy, dangerous improvisation, and the gravity of complex nuclear diplomacy, raising essential questions about U.S. credibility and world order.

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