Podcast Summary:

The Political Scene | The New Yorker
Episode: David Remnick and Ben Smith Discuss How the Media Should Cover the President
Date: January 30, 2017
Host: David Remnick
Guest: Ben Smith (Editor-in-Chief, BuzzFeed)

Overview

In this episode, David Remnick interviews Ben Smith about the controversial decision to publish the unverified "Steele dossier" regarding President Donald Trump’s alleged ties to Russia. The conversation dives deeply into the ethics, challenges, and generational divides in political journalism, and the evolving relationship between the media and those in power during the early days of the Trump administration.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Dossier: Its Origin and Circulation

• Document Background: The Steele dossier was a compilation of allegations regarding Trump's connections to Russia, created by a former MI6 agent, Christopher Steele.

  • “This dossier had been in various versions... It was in fairly wide circulation and had been pitched both to journalists and to the FBI over the late summer.”
    — Ben Smith [03:01]

• Widespread Awareness: Many reporters and politicians, including Harry Reid, were aware of the dossier before the election.

  • “Harry Reid sent a letter, an open letter to the director of the FBI in October saying, I know that you have explosive, damaging allegations against Donald Trump in your possession.”
    — Ben Smith [04:07]

2. Deciding to Publish Unverified Material

• Investigative Challenges: Multiple seasoned reporters at BuzzFeed chased the dossier's claims full-time but could neither substantiate nor fully debunk them.

  • “We had four really great reporters chasing different elements of it in Washington, in Europe, Prague and other parts of Europe full time... but we didn’t have anything that we felt had nailed it down.”
    — Ben Smith [06:03]

• Breaking Point: CNN’s summary report of the dossier being briefed to the President and President-elect catalyzed BuzzFeed’s decision to publish.

  • “Once both the allegations have been briefed to the president... and effectively summarized to the country, I think I felt immediately that, instinctively, the right thing to do is then to share the underlying document.”
    — Ben Smith [07:49]

• Role of Competition: Remnick presses whether BuzzFeed acted out of competition, caution, or journalistic duty—Smith says it was a mix.

  • “It was a competitive decision or a moral decision or a journalistic decision or a little of all three?”
    — David Remnick [09:32]
  • “I think a little of all three.”
    — Ben Smith [09:38]

• Transparency and Disclaimers: BuzzFeed included a prominent disclaimer, emphasizing the material was unverified.

  • “We wanted to be clear because the notion of putting particularly really vivid allegations into play... that frankly, we had not been able to stand up or knock down.”
    — Ben Smith [10:06]
  • “Americans can make up their own minds about allegations about the president-elect that have circulated at the highest levels of the US Government.”
    — [09:46]

3. Generational and Institutional Differences

• Legacy vs. Digital Media: Smith and Remnick discuss how BuzzFeed’s “internet-native” culture and the “legacy” magazine world approach such ethical dilemmas differently.

  • “Your reflexes as the editor of a certain age for a legacy media are different than your reflexes... that it’s a generational thing.”
    — David Remnick [11:03]
  • “There’s a difference between reflexes and judgment... but BuzzFeed and I came up doing a kind of journalism that was often fundamentally about saying to the audience, here is the thing under the thing...”
    — Ben Smith [12:00]

• Gatekeeping and Trust: Smith argues the culture of journalistic gatekeeping is outdated for most outlets, while Remnick notes trust must be earned anew every day.

  • “The idea that you can keep things behind the gate and that the audience should just trust you... is something that there are a few institutions, yours among them...”
    — Ben Smith [13:17]
  • “I certainly don’t take it for granted. That’s something you work for every day, isn’t it?”
    — David Remnick [14:04]

4. Critics and Impact on Public Trust

• Criticism from Media Ethicists: Kelly McBride of Poynter and others argue releasing unverified material enables bad actors, including the President, to undermine the press.

  • “By throwing this out onto the web, despite the warnings... it gave Donald Trump the opportunity to say, see, it’s all sleaze, it’s junk.”
    — David Remnick [15:07]

• Smith’s Defense: Smith contends the Trump era upended traditional rules, rendering old media routines less effective or relevant.

  • “These are the rules of engagement under which the media spent the last couple of years just getting steamrolled by Donald Trump.”
    — Ben Smith [15:25]
  • “Usually there’s no reason to publish an unverified tip because it’s not being briefed to the President of the United States. It’s not affecting policy.”
    — Ben Smith [15:26]

5. The Press and the Trump Administration

• A New Landscape of Deception: Smith warns that the administration’s willingness to outright lie is a new challenge.

  • “On day one, the press secretary, Sean Spicer, walks into the briefing room and really explodes... We are off to the races here.”
    — David Remnick [16:33]
  • “Sean’s first statement really boils down to who you going to believe, me or your lion eyes?”
    — Ben Smith [17:13]

• Rise of Alternative Media: The Trump administration cultivates outlets inclined to support its narratives, such as Breitbart and InfoWars.

  • “There’s an effort now to create and build a new alternate world of media outlets for whom they will believe Donald Trump, not their lying eyes.”
    — Ben Smith [17:13]

• Labeling Falsehoods and Lies: Both agree that using the word “lie” must be rare and reserved for unequivocal cases of intentional untruths.

  • “I think there ought to be a very high priority using the word lie, ‘cause you’re speculating about somebody’s mental state.”
    — Ben Smith [18:00]

• Reporting Strategies: Smith urges that covering the administration should be less about transcribing spokespeople and more investigative, as direct answers are unlikely.

  • “The notion that you primarily cover the administration by getting and printing the words of the spokesman is pretty far gone.”
    — Ben Smith [18:33]
  • “Given that they seem not to have accepted this very basic convention that when asked a direct question, you give a truthful answer, I don’t really think the press ought to be giving ground on any of the other conventions.”
    — Ben Smith [19:00]

6. The Role of Social Media (Twitter)

• Observer Dynamics: Remnick is a “Twitter lurker,” while Smith actively engages, demonstrating different relationships with the new media landscape.

  • “Is there a David Remnick account where I can go see who you follow?”
    — Ben Smith [19:39]
  • “No, there is... I’ve never wanted to do it because I knew in my heart that it would just take up too much time...”
    — David Remnick [19:41–19:46]

• How to Report on Trump’s Tweets: Both agree that blindly amplifying every tweet is not productive, but ignoring presidential statements due to their medium is also wrong.

  • “There are these sort of opposite impulses that are both obviously wrong, one of which is you gotta devote all your energy to just echoing and saying what he just tweeted... and ultimately that you ignore statements from the President United States because of the medium they're made on, which doesn't make sense.”
    — Ben Smith [20:28]

7. The Limits of Media Control

• Presidential Narrative vs. Reality: Each administration tries to bypass the media, but reality ultimately breaks through.
  • “There’s an illusion in the White House that you can control the story. And then for each president, there’s a moment when that illusion totally shatters... and the answer was no. We can’t. You’re president.”
    — Ben Smith [23:07]

Notable Quotes

• “Your job is not just to receive a dossier, it’s to be verified, contextualized.”
  — David Remnick [14:04]

• “I think that once you get halfway out on that allegation, it becomes an easy call to come out all the way.”
  — Ben Smith [10:59]

• “Sean’s first statement really boils down to, who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?”
  — Ben Smith [17:13]

• “I think there ought to be a very high priority using the word lie, ‘cause you’re speculating about somebody’s mental state... Trump does occasionally clear that bar. Other times... what’s going on in his mind are a mystery.”
  — Ben Smith [18:00–18:27]

Key Timestamps

• 03:01 — Dossier’s circulation and original sourcing
• 06:00 — Journalistic attempts at verification
• 07:49 — Decision-making on publishing after CNN’s report
• 09:46/10:06 — On disclaimers and audience responsibility
• 12:00–13:17 — Generational and philosophical divides in media
• 14:04–15:07 — Critique of BuzzFeed’s decision, media trust
• 16:33–17:39 — Trump administration’s media strategy, rise of alternative outlets
• 18:00–18:27 — Using the word “lie”
• 18:33–19:30 — The evolving nature of White House journalism
• 20:28 — How to handle Trump’s Twitter presence
• 23:07 — Limits of controlling the media narrative

Tone and Flow

Remnick’s questions are probing, sometimes skeptical but always measured and thoughtful. Smith’s tone is candid, confident, and reflective, with an undercurrent of urgency about adapting to disruptive political and media realities. The conversation is collegial, intellectually honest, and layered with media criticism and inside-baseball nuance.

Conclusion

This episode is a revealing behind-the-scenes look at a historic media decision, generational conflict in journalism, and the daunting challenge of covering the Trump presidency. The debate over transparency, verification, and public trust in an era of information deluge remains unresolved—a tension captured perfectly by Smith and Remnick’s open, searching dialogue.