The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Episode: David Remnick and Masha Lipman on Vladimir Putin and Ukraine
Date: March 8, 2014
Host: Dorothy Wickenden
Guests: David Remnick (Editor, The New Yorker); Masha Lipman (Contributor, The New Yorker, from Moscow)

Episode Overview

This urgent episode dissects the unfolding crisis in Ukraine in early 2014 as Russia moves to annex Crimea. Host Dorothy Wickenden convenes David Remnick and Masha Lipman to analyze Vladimir Putin’s motives, the historical and political complexities of Ukraine, the international response, and the Kremlin’s position domestically and abroad. The conversation illuminates the roots of Russian-Ukrainian tensions, the importance of the West’s actions, and the realism behind Putin’s geopolitical goals.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Situation in Crimea and Immediate Context (01:14–01:51)

• Russian troops have just taken control of Crimea; Crimea’s parliament has called for a referendum on joining Russia.
• President Obama publicly condemns these moves as violating international law and the Ukrainian constitution.
  • Quote: "The proposed referendum on the future of Crimea would violate the Ukrainian constitution and violate international law in 2014. We are well beyond the days when borders can be redrawn over the heads of democratic leaders." (Barack Obama, cited by host Dorothy Wickenden, 01:35)

2. Putin’s Mindset and the Historical Complexity (02:14–04:37)

• David Remnick highlights the opaque and contradictory answers from Putin, including claims that no Russian troops are in Crimea.
  • Quote: "He made statements like, there are no Russian troops in Crimea. His entire affect and way of thinking... was just this side of disturbing." (David Remnick, 02:19)
• Remnick explores Ukraine’s complexity: its split between a pro-nationalist West and Russian-speaking East, corruption among leaders, Europe’s courting of Ukraine, and the depth of Russia’s historical ties—some Russians don’t recognize Ukraine as a truly separate country. He references Alexander Solzhenitsyn’s advocacy for a “Slavic Union” which always included Ukraine as spiritually and historically part of Russia.

3. Russia’s Isolation and Lack of Support (04:39–05:52)

• Masha Lipman reports Putin is unable to secure open support from Belarus and Kazakhstan, Russian allies, suggesting Russia is acting alone.
  • Quote: "Not even its closest allies want to endorse Russia's current policy." (Masha Lipman, 05:18)
• Remnick and Lipman agree: Russia’s adventure in Crimea risks international isolation, problematic for an economy enmeshed globally and reliant on natural resources.

4. Crackdown in Russia and Domestic Climate (05:52–08:12)

• Lipman details rapid increases in repression inside Russia—protests are small and heavily policed; the government seems unnerved.
  • Quote: "This shows that probably the Kremlin is getting desperate." (Masha Lipman, 06:11)
• Government-organized pro-government rallies lack authenticity, while anti-war protests feel like acts of desperation.
• Russia scrambles to legalize a Crimea annexation, while the Crimea referendum is hastily brought forward to March 16.
  • "A referendum in which people of the Crimea are supposed to vote for becoming part of Russia. ... This seems to be a totally unlawful thing to do." (Masha Lipman, 07:19)

5. U.S. Reaction, Republican Rhetoric, and Western Sanctions (08:12–10:09)

• Remnick lambastes Republican criticism of Obama as "crazy demagoguery,” noting their lack of substantive alternatives.
  • Quote: "Lindsey Graham has had one bizarre statement after another... I think anybody over a certain age in the Senate should be taken away from Twitter. It does them no good." (David Remnick, 08:27)
• The U.S. and European allies try to respond with sanctions and diplomatic pressure. Remnick contrasts the “impact” with the ineffective Syria policy.

6. Germany and the Limits of Western Unity (09:41–11:29)

• Masha Lipman explains the EU’s hesitancy: Europe is highly reliant on Russian gas, making sanctions risky for its own economies.
  • Quote: "Russia remains the largest provider of gas to Europe... it's easier for the United States to impose sanctions on Russia than it is for the European Union." (Masha Lipman, 10:19)
• New U.S. sanctions include asset freezes and travel bans, but the real pain for Russia hinges on EU participation.
• Russia’s sudden cutoff of gas to Ukraine is seen as a form of brinkmanship.

7. Symbolism of the Sochi Olympics versus Reality (11:29–12:48)

• Remnick notes the turnaround from Sochi’s big showcase to global condemnation and international isolation for the Kremlin.
  • Quote: "The Olympics seem a long time ago, Dorothy... not that it's alone in history in its bluster... but it has overstepped, miscalculated in a way that is horrendous for, by the way, for the Kremlin, but also for Russians and for the region." (David Remnick, 11:29)

8. Will Putin Invade More of Ukraine? (12:48–15:45)

• Remnick admits recent events would have surprised him just weeks prior; sees Putin’s resentment with the West and NATO’s eastward expansion as driving paranoia and aggression.
  • Quote: "He is sick of moralism and lectures from the West. He is freaked out... by the eastward expansion of NATO..." (David Remnick, 12:54)
• Lipman shares the Kremlin's fear of western integration: NATO expansion is Putin’s “existential threat.”
  • "His desire, his intention, is to secure Russia by not allowing the west... to come still closer to the Russian borders." (Masha Lipman, 13:44)
• Remnick gives historical context: Old assurances to Gorbachev about NATO non-expansion, remembered bitterly by Russian elites.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the surreal nature of Russian official posturing:

  • "There are no Russian troops in Crimea." (David Remnick channeling Putin, 02:19)

• On the fabricated mass rallies in Moscow:

  • "There's been a leak of a document... ordering city municipal services to allocate a certain number of people like utilities, service people should provide 9,000 demonstrators." (Masha Lipman, 06:44)

• On the Republican reaction:

  • "He said it all sprang from Benghazi." (Dorothy Wickenden, 08:52)
  • "The relationship between Benghazi and Crimea escapes me, but it apparently doesn't escape Lindsey Graham." (David Remnick, 08:54)

• On the European dilemma:

  • "Europe is not in a rush to impose sanctions. What we see these days, I think, is very dangerous brinkmanship." (Masha Lipman, 10:51)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:35 — Obama’s denunciation of Crimean referendum
• 02:19 — Remnick on Putin’s press conference and denial of troops
• 04:00 — The Solzhenitsyn 'Slavic Union' concept and Ukrainian identity
• 05:18 — Lipman on Russia’s diplomatic isolation
• 06:11 — Lipman on protest crackdowns in Moscow
• 08:27 — Remnick on Republican rhetoric
• 10:19 — Lipman on Europe’s economic ties and sanction limits
• 11:29 — Remnick on the contrast between the Olympics and the Crimea crisis
• 12:54 — Putin’s resentment and paranoia about NATO
• 13:44 — Lipman on what NATO expansion means to Putin
• 15:45 — Conclusion and historical context of NATO promises

Tone and Language

The conversation is urgent, analytical, and often laced with dry wit—especially as Remnick dissects American political grandstanding. Both Remnick and Lipman integrate deep historical context, frank criticism, and a sense of realism, counterbalancing official narratives and laying bare both Russian and Western strategic anxieties.

Summary Takeaways

This episode offers a penetrating look into the roots of Russia’s invasion of Crimea, the delusions and fears of the Kremlin, and the challenges facing Western leaders in a newly revived confrontation with Moscow. Remnick and Lipman provide listeners with the history and context vital to understanding today’s headlines, while not letting any side off the hook for its part in creating this dangerous moment.