Podcast Summary: “David Remnick and Ryan Lizza on Obama’s Speech in Jerusalem”

The Political Scene | The New Yorker
Date: March 22, 2013
Host: Dorothy Wickenden
Guests: David Remnick, Ryan Lizza

Episode Overview

This episode of "The Political Scene" centers on President Barack Obama's visit to Israel and the West Bank, specifically analyzing his widely discussed speech in Jerusalem. The conversation features New Yorker editor David Remnick and Washington correspondent Ryan Lizza, who discuss the shifting dynamics in U.S.-Israel relations, Israeli internal politics, the challenges facing the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, and the broader regional complexities influencing policy, including Iran and Syria.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Obama’s Speech: Style and Audience Reception

Segment: [01:35]–[02:19]

• Obama’s Storytelling: Opened his speech referencing the story of Passover, emphasizing universal themes of suffering and salvation which relate to the Jewish experience and the broader human condition.
  • Remnick: “It’s a story about finding freedom in your own land and for the Jewish people. This story is central to who you've become, but it's also a story that holds within it the universal human experience...” [01:35]
• Crowd Reaction: The youthful, mainly liberal audience in Jerusalem responded enthusiastically.
  • Wickenden: “Obama knows how to warm up a crowd. Whatever you thought about the speech... And those young Israelis loved him, loved him, loved him.” [02:04]
  • Remnick: “It was a beautifully crafted speech. Maybe some years too late. Israelis would have loved to have heard that speech at around the time of the Cairo speech in June 2009.” [02:19]

2. Shift in Obama’s Israel Strategy

Segment: [03:09]–[04:09]

• Approach in First vs. Second Term:
  • Lizza: Early Obama administration tried a tough-on-settlers approach, emphasizing a freeze—a strategy that backfired.
    • “He got things backwards. He started off with this, we're going to be tough on the Israelis... That backfired and it led to basically nothing happening in the first term.” [03:25]
  • Second term approach: Warmer, more empathetic, engaging with Israeli sensibilities first.
  • Remnick: But “it's leaving out one major party here, the Palestinians. The Palestinians are occupied. They've been occupied for 46 years…” [04:09]

3. Palestinian Perspective Largely Overlooked

Segment: [04:09]–[05:56]

• Palestinian Reaction:
  • Remnick: “I seriously doubt whether the vast majority of Palestinians were uplifted by this trip in the same way... That concerns me.” [04:09]
  • Discusses Obama echoing the Israeli mainstream narrative, which may alienate Palestinians searching for empathy and substantive support.
• Settlement Policy:
  • Lizza: “They're the ones who were told, hey, go to the bargaining table without the demand to stop the construction. Obama has given up on that demand and he's now telling the Palestinians to give up on it as well.” [04:40]

4. The Limits of Presidential Influence & the “Make Me” Doctrine

Segment: [05:56]–[06:22]

• Remnick: Cites Obama’s oft-repeated FDR story—that a president needs a movement behind him to create change. If the speech is not followed by action, "then it's just wind.” [05:57]

5. Post-Arab Spring Politics: Fragmentation and Chaos

Segment: [06:14]–[08:12]

• New Regional Dynamics:
  • Divided Palestinian leadership, unstable Israeli coalitions, and regional uncertainty after the Arab Spring complicate negotiations.
  • Obama’s strategy appears focused on getting the parties to the table, asking Palestinians to back off their demand for a settlement freeze. [07:33]
• Remnick: “The settlements grow and grow and they become facts on the ground that make a two-state solution more and more difficult to envisage.” [08:04]

6. Israeli Domestic Politics and Netanyahu’s Weakness

Segment: [08:12]–[10:14]

• Israeli Political Map:
  • Center-left influence diminished; far-right ascendant.
  • Unexpected shift before elections with centrist Yair Lapid’s surge, focused on secular issues, not Palestinian peace.
  • “Netanyahu is weak. His cabinet is filled with completely contradictory politicians. Even in the context of Israel...” [08:34]
• Negotiation Prospects:
  • Remnick: “...in that region, the alternative to negotiations and even interim agreements is despair. It's giving up entirely on a two state solution...” [09:45]
  • Lizza: “Netanyahu is not strong... doesn't seem like the moment is ripe for Netanyahu to suddenly be a great broker in a peace deal.” [09:58]

7. Israel’s Security Concerns: Iran, Syria, the Region

Segment: [10:42]–[13:50]

• Obama’s Security Reassurances:
  • Strong affirmation of Israel’s right to exist and its regional isolation.
    • Remnick (quoting Obama): “Make no mistake, those who adhere to the ideology of rejecting Israel's right to exist... Israel is not going anywhere.” [10:46]
  • Iran: Obama aligns more closely with Israeli positions: “US policy is not containment.” [12:23]
  • Syria: Administration’s unease over arming rebels or enforcing red lines, mindful of the Iraq war’s legacy and the riskiness of intervention.
    • Lizza: “The big debate while he was there was whether there was a chemical attack in Syria... he has said that that would be a, quote, game changer. He hasn't really defined what that means.” [13:21]
    • Remnick: “...the disaster [of Iraq] includes a really alarmed, wary view of American power. So the tragedy in a place like Syria goes on... to the point where 70,000 people are dead.” [13:50]

8. American Hesitation and Humanitarian Intervention

Segment: [14:58]–[15:40]

• Limitations of U.S. Engagement:
  • Skepticism of “liberal humanitarian interventionism” post-Iraq; moral and practical paralysis in the face of Syria’s civil war.
    • Lizza: “Foreign policy since it completely discredited liberal humanitarian interventionism.” [14:58]
  • Remnick: “...to witness 70,000 people and counting in Syria and to see the inability of the west to formulate an effective policy... is beyond maddening.” [15:03]

9. Will the Visit Herald Real Change?

Segment: [15:50]–[16:56]

• Conditional Optimism:
  • Remnick: “If this is followed through by serious diplomacy led by John Kerry... then, yes, this is a real, in a sense, emotional and diplomatic curtain raiser. If it just stops here, then no.” [15:50]
  • Lizza: “Maybe he's laid the groundwork with the Israeli public and maybe beyond... the next time he asks someone like Netanyahu to do something hard.” [16:23]
  • Remnick: “...this trip was about increasing the breadth and depth of his constituency, at least in Israel. I don't know that he succeeded in Palestine.” [16:36]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Obama’s Speech:
  • “It was a beautifully crafted speech. Maybe some years too late.” – David Remnick [02:19]
• On Settlement Policy:
  • “The settlements grow and grow and they become facts on the ground that make a two-state solution more and more difficult to envisage.” – David Remnick [08:04]
• On Israeli Politics:
  • “Netanyahu is weak. His cabinet is filled with completely contradictory politicians.” – David Remnick [08:34]
• Obama’s Security Message (as quoted):
  • “Israel is not going anywhere.” – Barack Obama, quoted by David Remnick [10:46]
• Regional Complexity:
  • “Iran is just one component in a really bad, worrying neighborhood... he asserted America's partnership and support and said, you are not alone.” – David Remnick [11:35]
• On Humanitarian Intervention:
  • “To witness 70,000 people and counting in Syria and to see the inability of the west to formulate an effective policy... is beyond maddening.” – David Remnick [15:03]
• On Prospects for Believable Change:
  • “If this is followed through by serious diplomacy... then, yes, this is a real, in a sense, emotional and diplomatic curtain raiser. If it just stops here, then no.” – David Remnick [15:50]

Important Segment Timestamps

| Segment Topic | Time Range | |------------------------------------------|--------------------| | Obama’s opening and Passover metaphor | 01:35–02:19 | | Speech's reception and timing debate | 02:19–03:09 | | Obama’s updated strategy on Israel | 03:09–04:09 | | Palestinian dissatisfaction | 04:09–05:56 | | Movement-building limits of speeches | 05:56–06:22 | | The new, chaotic regional context | 06:22–08:12 | | Israeli politics after the election | 08:12–10:14 | | Security concerns: Iran & Syria | 10:42–13:50 | | Reflection on US foreign policy limits | 14:58–15:40 | | Can the trip spark change? | 15:50–16:56 |

Conclusion

This episode offers a nuanced, layered conversation about both the symbolism and the limitations of Obama’s Jerusalem speech, set against the backdrop of fractious regional politics and U.S. foreign policy caution. While acknowledging the power of Obama’s rhetoric and the potential to reset his relationship with Israelis, Remnick and Lizza remain skeptical that words alone, without sustained diplomatic action, will meaningfully alter the trajectory of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict or unravel the stasis of the post–Arab Spring Middle East.

Panel:

• Dorothy Wickenden (Host, Executive Editor, The New Yorker)
• David Remnick (Editor, The New Yorker)
• Ryan Lizza (Washington Correspondent, The New Yorker)