Episode Overview

Podcast: The Political Scene | The New Yorker
Episode: Debbie Walsh Talks to Amy Davidson About the Challenges Facing Women in Politics
Date: January 17, 2017
Host: Amy Davidson
Guest: Debbie Walsh, Director of the Center for American Women and Politics at Rutgers University

Main Theme:
This episode explores the persistent and multifaceted challenges that women face when running for political office in the United States, especially at the highest levels. Drawing context from the aftermath of the 2016 presidential election and Hillary Clinton's historic candidacy, the conversation delves into institutional, cultural, and psychological barriers for women in politics, and discusses what it will take to finally see a woman in the White House.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Impact of Gender in the 2016 Election

• Hillary Clinton's Popular Vote Victory and Electoral Loss
  • Amy Davidson underscores the outsized role gender played in the campaign, stating bluntly:

    "One that we can't deny is that Clinton's gender was an issue. It was an issue. Clearly, some people are not willing, whether they admit it or not, to have a woman lead the country." (03:00)

  • This sets the stage for discussing ongoing challenges facing women seeking high office.

2. The Case for Women Running for Office

• Debbie Walsh's Direct Appeal
  • When asked for her "30-second pitch" to women considering running, Walsh stresses:

    "The challenges that this country are facing right now are enormous. And we cannot afford to keep half of the talent and the creativity on the sidelines...if you are not at the table, you are probably on the menu. And we need to make sure that women are at the table when policy decisions are being made that affect their lives." (02:47)

  • She points out that politics remains gendered and highlights the low numbers of women at key stepping-stone positions—only 21 women in the U.S. Senate.

3. Pipeline and Pool: Realism vs. Optimism

• Why Aren't More Women Eyeing the Presidency?
  • The host challenges Walsh on why more women senators and governors aren't considering a White House bid.
  • Walsh responds, acknowledging the cultural and self-perception barriers:

    "I think there are a few women now who clearly are being talked about. Obviously, Elizabeth Warren...Kirsten Gillibrand...Kamala Harris...But I think that we have to be realistic that the pool is still relatively small." (04:21–04:43)

  • Host suggests looking at the pipeline as "half full" rather than "half empty," but Walsh counters that progress has been "frustratingly slow," with percentages of women in Congress and legislatures barely increasing:

    "We came out of this election with exactly the same number of women in Congress. We went from 24.5% women in state legislatures to 24.8%." (05:41)

4. The Double Bind and Gendered "Realism"

• Are Women Too Realistic?
  • Host questions, "part of the challenge here [is] getting women to be a little unrealistic? ...maybe the handicap that women have is that they're too realistic compared to men..." (06:06)
  • Walsh broadens the "double bind" facing women:

    "I think it would be very hard for a woman who had the level of experience of a Donald Trump to get elected president...Carly Fiorina who ran for president...did the strongest debate performance...But yet it didn't work for her, being that consummate outsider. I think that it's a real double bind. You need to be the outsider a bit. Right. But you still have to prove that you're qualified." (06:25–07:32)

5. Global Contrasts & Imagination

• Other Countries Have Broken This Ceiling
  • The host notes that many countries, not necessarily known for women's equality, have elected women leaders: Germany (Merkel), Great Britain, India, Pakistan.
  • Walsh attributes part of the difference to the U.S. political structure, which disadvantages outsiders unless they have "billions of dollars at their disposal." (08:19)

6. The Myth of "Working Your Way Up"

• Rethinking Routes to Power
  • Walsh warns of the burnout cycle in "working up the ladder":

    "I think it's something that women are told more often, you know, work your way up. And so they feel they have to start at the school board level and then maybe run for local municipal office and then the state legislature...And they just get burned out, and they don't run for anything else." (08:56)

  • Encourages women to seize opportunities at higher levels when available:

    "When, in fact, the reality is, if the opportunity comes along, if there's an open seat, if you're positioned, if you've been active in the community, you know...And go big, go big." (10:26–10:28)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Being at the Table
  Debbie Walsh:

  "If you are not at the table, you are probably on the menu." (02:56)

• On Political "Realism"
  Interviewer:

  "Isn't part of the challenge here getting women to be a little unrealistic? Or maybe the handicap that women have is that they're too realistic compared to men, that you need to be a little out there?" (06:06)

• On Double Standards for Experience
  Debbie Walsh:

  "I think it would be very hard for a woman who had the level of experience of a Donald Trump to get elected president." (06:25)

• On Burnout and the Political Pipeline
  Debbie Walsh:

  "They just get burned out, and they don't run for anything else. You know, you can't even go to the grocery store because everybody knows you, and they're upset because you're doing something with their kids." (09:49)

• On Rethinking Pathways
  Debbie Walsh:

  "If the opportunity comes along...go big, go big." (10:26–10:28)

Important Segments by Timestamp

• 01:35–02:36: Setting the stage—Clinton's loss and the question of gender in U.S. presidential politics
• 02:47–03:54: Debbie Walsh’s pitch to women about why they should run; discussion of the gendered nature of politics
• 04:21–05:41: The size of the pipeline: which women might be ready, and why the pool is still "relatively small"
• 06:06–07:32: Discussion of "realism" vs. ambition; the double standard in outsider candidates
• 07:32–08:19: International examples of women breaking the highest glass ceiling
• 08:56–10:28: The myth of "working your way up," burnout, and the need for boldness in seeking higher office

Conclusion

The episode offers a candid exploration of the structural, cultural, and psychological barriers facing women in politics, especially when it comes to breakthrough roles like the presidency. Walsh and Davidson analyze why progress has been slow, debate the qualities needed to encourage more women to run at every level, and urge a rethink of the traditional ladders of political success. Their insights stress the necessity of both cultural change and strategic ambition: "If the opportunity comes along...go big, go big."