The Political Scene | The New Yorker
Episode: Does Joe Biden Have a #MeToo Problem?
Date: May 2, 2019
Host: Dorothy Wickenden
Guests: Jane Mayer & Evan Osnos
Episode Overview
This episode centers on Joe Biden’s entry into the 2020 presidential race against the backdrop of renewed scrutiny about his handling of Anita Hill’s testimony during the Clarence Thomas Supreme Court hearings and accusations from several women of inappropriate physical contact. Host Dorothy Wickenden speaks with New Yorker staff writers Jane Mayer and Evan Osnos about the political legacy of those hearings, how the #MeToo movement has changed the conversation on conduct and accountability, and what all this means for Biden’s candidacy.
Main Discussion Points & Insights
1. Biden’s Apology to Anita Hill and Unresolved Accountability
- Overview:
- Days before declaring his candidacy, Biden called Anita Hill to apologize for her treatment at the Thomas hearings; the apology was found lacking by Hill who felt he did not take full personal responsibility ([01:16]-[03:23]).
- Key Quote:
- Jane Mayer: “He kept referring to himself as having done all he could under the rules ... not saying that it was he himself, that he was not taking responsibility himself.” ([03:23])
- Analysis:
- As Senate Judiciary Chair, Biden controlled the process and environment, yet distanced himself from direct responsibility.
- His pursuit of bipartisanship facilitated Republican attacks on Hill. Howard Metzenbaum, a fellow senator, summarized it as: “Joe bent over backwards so far to please the Republicans that he enabled them to do what they were going to do.” ([04:26])
- Lingering Issue:
- Does Biden now understand the difference between a bygone era’s fairness and the “warfare” of modern politics? Has he learned from that moment?
2. The Shifting Standards of Conduct Post-#MeToo
- Category Creep and Generational Gaps:
- Mayer notes a dilemma in conflating serious sexual crimes (e.g. Weinstein) with “avuncular” invasions of space—actions not rising to harassment, but inappropriate by new social standards ([05:52]).
- Biden’s tactile style (hugs, back-patting) is beloved by some as warmth, but increasingly critiqued as overstepping boundaries.
- Key Quote:
- “All kinds of touching, even friendly touching, requires consent. So there's a big blur out there in the political world.” – Jane Mayer ([05:52])
- Evan Osnos describes this as “a desperate appetite for the connect,” part of Biden’s old-school persona, sometimes an asset, sometimes a liability ([07:30]).
- Public Reaction:
- There is a risk of trivializing #MeToo if lesser infractions are treated equivalently with major abuses—some progressives and Democratic women are pushing back, notably Mika Brzezinski calling the Biden accusations “ridiculous.” ([14:01])
3. The Legacy and Lessons of the Clarence Thomas–Anita Hill Hearings
- Reenactment with Brett Kavanaugh Hearings:
- The mishandling of Anita Hill’s testimony set a pattern that echoed in the Christine Blasey Ford–Brett Kavanaugh hearings.
- Anita Hill suggests Biden should apologize not just to her, but for “having set the stage for the same sort of process” that Ford experienced ([09:35]).
- Suppressed Voices: Angela Wright:
- Angela Wright, another potential witness against Thomas, reflects on Biden’s failure to call her, but directs her anger chiefly at Republicans ([11:06]).
- Key Quote:
- “Yes, he did bungle those confirmation hearings... but this shouldn’t be held against him. We need to focus on Trump, who’s so much worse.” – Mayer summarizing Wright ([12:40])
4. Dangers of #MeToo Overcorrection & Due Process
- Al Franken Precedent:
- The Democratic Party risks being caught in “trial by Internet” or overcompensating to display moral leadership, as seen in the hurried ouster of Al Franken without due process ([13:14]).
- MeToo and Political Calculus:
- There is a challenge in distinguishing between condemnable acts and those that are generationally outmoded but not malicious.
5. Biden’s Political Record: Strengths and Liabilities
- Record Overview:
- Biden’s résumé includes authoring the Violence Against Women Act (positive), and support for the 1994 crime bill, Glass-Steagall repeal, and Iraq War (now seen as negatives) ([15:48]).
- Electoral Strategy:
- Biden’s path is to present his career in totality, emphasizing evolution and durability ([17:52]).
- Key Quote:
- “If you vote for me, you are voting for a half century in American government.” – Osnos ([18:04])
- Contrast with Trump:
- Biden’s willingness to acknowledge fault is contrasted with Trump’s refusal to do so; this could serve Biden if he demonstrates genuine growth ([18:04]-[19:04]).
6. Current Messaging and Economic Focus
- Old vs. New Language:
- Biden’s rhetoric—emphasizing the “basic bargain” for American workers—may sound dated to some, yet resonates on issues of labor and inequality ([19:20]-[20:44]).
- Trump’s reaction to Biden’s firefighter union endorsement signals perceived threat from Biden’s pro-labor appeal ([20:44]).
7. Scrutiny of Hunter Biden
- Early Opposition Research:
- Republican-aligned sources are promoting stories about Hunter Biden’s business dealings as potential conflicts for Joe Biden ([21:18]).
- Jane Mayer suggests this is a sign of the campaign ahead, warning of “opposition research” volume similar to anti-Clinton efforts ([21:38]).
- Media Responsibility:
- Osnos questions how the media will handle oppo research: critically or as mere spectacle ([22:59]).
Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps)
-
On Biden’s Apology:
“He kept referring to himself as having done all he could under the rules and kind of saying passively, yeah, she wasn't treated well, but not saying that it was he himself, that he was not taking responsibility himself.”
— Jane Mayer ([03:23]) -
On Generational Change and Biden’s Persona:
“Biden was a very tactile politician... he brings people in, he hugs them... it fed into this image... this almost desperate appetite for the connect.”
— Evan Osnos ([07:30]) -
On the Continued Relevance of Anita Hill’s Experience:
“Partly what [Anita Hill] needs to make an apology for from her standpoint, is not just to her, but really to many other women, and in particular Christine Blasey Ford, for having set the stage for the same sort of process.”
— Jane Mayer ([09:35]) -
On the Dangers of Overcorrecting with #MeToo:
“There's a danger that it can trivialize the MeToo movement because there is this category creep. It makes it look like all these cases are minor when some of these cases are really serious and important.”
— Jane Mayer ([14:01]) -
On Political Experience as a Double-Edged Sword:
“If you vote for me, you are voting for a half century in American government. You're not voting necessarily for one small issue or another. And it's going to be up to people to decide whether they want that.”
— Evan Osnos ([18:04])
Key Timestamps for Reference
- 01:16: Start of Dorothy Wickenden’s introduction of the episode’s theme
- 03:23: Jane Mayer on why Anita Hill wasn’t satisfied with Biden’s apology
- 04:26: Howard Metzenbaum’s criticism of Biden’s approach
- 05:52: Jane Mayer on category creep in #MeToo
- 07:30: Evan Osnos on Biden’s social style and political persona
- 09:35: Jane Mayer on parallels between Hill and Christine Blasey Ford’s experiences
- 11:06: Angela Wright and the silenced voices at the Thomas hearings
- 13:14: Due process concerns and the Al Franken case
- 15:48: Biden’s legislative record — highlights and challenges
- 18:04: Osnos on Biden’s need to own his full record
- 21:18: Mayer on Hunter Biden, opposition research, and future controversies
Conclusion
The episode provides nuanced context to the complicated legacy of Joe Biden’s past conduct, especially in the context of changing expectations around gender, power, and personal responsibility. Mayer and Osnos emphasize both the importance and limits of apology and reflection in American politics, and caution against the easy “category creep” of scandals in a transformed public environment. Biden’s challenge is to demonstrate that he has learned from his past, can connect with contemporary values, and can withstand the coming storm of partisan attacks as the 2020 race intensifies.