Dr. Omer Salih Mahdi Talks to George Packer About Islamophobia

Summary

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The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Episode: Dr. Omer Salih Mahdi Talks to George Packer About Islamophobia
Date: January 4, 2016
Host: George Packer
Guest: Dr. Omar Sali Mahdi

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Overview

In this episode, New Yorker staff writer George Packer reunites with Dr. Omar Sali Mahdi, his former interpreter from Iraq, for an intimate conversation about trauma, survival, and the rise of Islamophobia in the United States. Drawing from Dr. Mahdi’s personal journey—from Baghdad through the violence of civil war, to resettling as a physician in Indiana—the conversation explores the contemporary refugee crisis, anti-Muslim sentiment following the San Bernardino shooting, and the damaging effects of political rhetoric on the public’s perception of refugees and Muslims in America.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Loss and Escaping Iraq

• Dr. Mahdi’s Family Tragedy (02:49-03:46):
  Dr. Mahdi shares the harrowing experiences of his family's suffering during the Iraq war: multiple kidnappings, torture, and the eventual murder of his father by a militia.

  • “When someone dies, usually we take them…to a place where they wash them. …I just looked and said, that's unfair. I don't want someone to see him like that.”
    – Dr. Omar Sali Mahdi [02:54]

  • The trauma was compounded when he had to photograph his father’s body for proof, but ultimately could not bear to do it.

• Difficulties in Leaving Iraq (03:46-04:43):
  Dr. Mahdi waited anxiously for his U.S. visa as Baghdad became increasingly violent, unable to leave due to processing delays—even after winning a Fulbright scholarship.

  • “I just kept thinking, every day he waits is a day closer to him getting killed.”
    – George Packer [04:10]

2. Culture Shock and Healing in America

• Arriving in Indiana (04:44-05:52):
  Dr. Mahdi describes the surreal contrast between violent Baghdad and the “quiet and silent” Muncie, Indiana. Even normal sounds, like a trash truck, would trigger traumatic memories.

  • “You’re used to … the helicopter sounds and the machine guns and explosions. … Suddenly I’m in this peaceful place where literally you hear nothing.”
    – Dr. Omar Sali Mahdi [04:52]

  This environment, although overwhelming at first, started a slow process of healing thanks to a welcoming university community.

• Family Reunification (05:52-06:15):
  Dr. Mahdi’s extended family eventually joined him, having first sought refuge in Syria, then being resettled through the United Nations.

3. Perspectives on the Refugee Crisis

• Solidarity and Barriers (06:15-07:20):
  Dr. Mahdi empathizes with today’s refugees, lamenting increased barriers to resettlement and the climate of suspicion they face, in contrast to the welcome he received.

  • "I met a few people … they were suspicious. But then after they knew me, these suspicions resolved … Now, the leaders … are encouraging this division.”
    – Dr. Omar Sali Mahdi [06:38]

4. Experiencing Islamophobia in the U.S.

• Indiana’s Refusal to Accept Syrian Refugees (07:20-08:27):
  The Indiana governor’s rejection of Syrian refugees is discussed, highlighting the emotional toll it takes on both new arrivals and established immigrants like Mahdi.

  • “They want friendly faces who smile at them. That’s all what I wanted. … Here in Indiana, that tells the people that we cannot trust those people … This made damage to the relationships between people here.”
    – Dr. Omar Sali Mahdi [07:58]

• Aftermath of the San Bernardino Shooting (08:27-10:16):
  Dr. Mahdi explains the unique anxiety felt by Muslims in America during high-profile attacks.

  • He describes hearing the news while working a hospital shift, worrying the perpetrators might be Muslim, and dreading the ensuing backlash.

    • “That’s usually the thought comes to me whenever I hear shooting or something bad happened. … I cursed. Like, I was like, that’s it. That’s gonna even get the backlash.”
      – Dr. Omar Sali Mahdi [09:27]

  • He highlights Donald Trump's "inflammatory response," including calls to ban Muslims, as deepening the sense of alienation for immigrants.

5. Resilience, Friendship, and Staying

• Closing Notes (10:16-10:29):
  Despite the adversities, Dr. Mahdi and Packer’s longstanding friendship persists, symbolizing hope and connection across difficult divides.

  • “But you’re here and you’re not going to be going anywhere. And I’m going to remind you, Omar, that you owe me a visit.”
    – George Packer [10:16]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Bearing Witness to Loss:

  “I can't do that. And I shut down the camera and I left. … By then I knew that that's it, there's nothing left for us.”
  – Dr. Omar Salih Mahdi [03:28]

• On the Healing Power of Quiet:

  "I think in a way, going there also helped me heal because it was just quiet and peaceful and… everybody was really friendly and nice to me."
  – Dr. Omar Salih Mahdi [05:39]

• On Political Responsibility:

  “The leaders or the candidates, they [are] encouraging this fear and … division.”
  – Dr. Omar Salih Mahdi [06:56]

• On the Everyday Costs of Islamophobia:

  "Every time something bad happened, I hope it's not a Muslim. … I knew there will be a big backlash. And unfortunately, that's what happened."
  – Dr. Omar Salih Mahdi [09:19]

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Timestamped Segment Highlights

• Dr. Mahdi describes his father's death and the trauma of war: [02:49-03:46]
• George Packer recalls getting Dr. Mahdi out of Iraq: [03:46-04:43]
• Arrival and adjustment in Indiana: [04:44-05:52]
• Reflections on the refugee crisis: [06:15-07:20]
• Discussion of Indiana’s policy and its impact: [07:20-08:27]
• San Bernardino aftermath and experiencing Islamophobia: [08:27-10:16]
• Closing exchange about friendship and resilience: [10:16-10:29]

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Summary

The episode is a deeply personal and urgent account of the refugee experience, trauma recovery, and the growing challenges refugees and Muslims face in the U.S., especially amidst political rhetoric that fans division and fear. Through Dr. Mahdi’s story, the conversation humanizes the stakes of refugee policy and Islamophobia, reminding listeners of our shared humanity and the importance of welcome amidst fear.

Transcript

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[Dorothy Wickenden]

I'm Dorothy Wickenden and on today's Politics and More podcast, New Yorker staff writer George Packer talks to Dr. Omar Sali Mahdi. In 2005, Dr. Mahdi worked as a translator for Packer in Iraq. He and his family have since left the country. He now works as a doctor at a hospital in Indiana, one of the states that has recently refused to accept Syrian refugees.

[David Remnick]

New Yorker staff writer George Packer covered the war in Iraq and went on to write the book the Assassin's Gate. He's written about American politics and many other subjects, but he still writes about the causes of extremism and its victims.

[George Packer]

I met omar Mahdi in 2005 while I was covering the Iraq war. He was a doctor before the war and he went on to work for Western NGOs and eventually as an interpreter for journalists, starting with me. He had a phenomenal memory. He was calm in every situation and he was an objective and non sectarian Iraqi and all those things made him the ideal person to work with in the most dangerous years of the Iraq War. He and I became very good friends. And as the situation in Iraq deteriorated into a civil war, I worried about Omar's safety. His two younger brothers were kidnapped. Fortunately, he was able to get them released. Another was tortured, shot twice in the head, survived, but was horribly wounded. And finally, Omar's father was abducted by a Shia militia, and Omar found him in the Baghdad morgue. When was that, Omar?

[Dr. Omar Sali Mahdi]

That was in 2007. When someone dies, usually we take them to a place where they wash them. And my friend Ali Fadil gave me a digital camera, and he told me, take picture to the body. And he said, that will be approved on what you've gone through. And I remember they put my father on, like, a concrete. Almost like a concrete step where they put the body on before they wash them. And I hold the digital camera in my hand, trying to take pictures, and I just looked and said, that's unfair. I don't want someone to see him like that. You know, you see him partially decomposed. There was like, maggots and worms coming out of him. And I just said, I can't do that. And I shut down the camera and I left. And we buried him that day. And by then I knew that that's it, there's nothing left for us. And I managed to get my family to Syria.

[George Packer]

What I remember from that time, Omar, is just the feeling that everything was over in Baghdad, but you couldn't leave because you had applied for a Fulbright. I remember writing a letter for you, and then month after month after month went by while you waited for the visa. Even after you were approved for a Fulbright scholarship, you. You had to wait for the visa. And I just kept thinking, every day he waits is a day closer to him getting killed. And I just wanted you to get out of there. And you and Ayad, your friend, were living together, almost like hiding in a house in Mansoor, hardly ever going out and waiting, both of you, to hear whether you had gotten your visa to the United States. Finally, you got the visa and you flew, of all places, to Muncie, Indiana, where you became a journalism master's student at Ball State, right?

[Dr. Omar Sali Mahdi]

Yes.

[George Packer]

It's crazy to an American to think you go from Baghdad to Muncie, Indiana. It just seems like you couldn't have gone farther away.

[Dr. Omar Sali Mahdi]

That's true. And I was overwhelmed. How quiet and silent the town was. And in the first week, I was even unable to sleep. Because you're used to the noises in Baghdad and the helicopter sounds and the machine guns and explosions going on here and there, and Suddenly I'm in this peaceful place where literally you hear nothing. And one night in particular, I remember I used to sleep and leave the window open, and suddenly there were this like, loud bang. And I just like jumped from the bed. And I was like, where is this? And it was the trash truck, the dumpster. And when they put it back, it banged. And so it was like. It brought painful memories. But I think in a way, going there also helped me heal because it was just quiet and peaceful and a ball state. Everybody was really friendly and nice to me.

[George Packer]

And eventually your family came over too. Your mother, your sister and her family, and your younger brothers, right?

[Dr. Omar Sali Mahdi]

Yes, they. As I said, before I left Iraq, I moved them to Syria. They applied for the United Nations Refugee Organization Seeking Resettlement and Safer Country.

[George Packer]

I'm wondering how you see the current crisis of refugees and how it compares with the situation you and your family were in.

[Dr. Omar Sali Mahdi]

First thing, I think we are lucky that we got here and we were able to rebuild our lives. I feel really sad that those people, they might never be able to come here. It's not easy going through what they've been through. And they had to leave everything and literally leave with their clothes on them, like what we did. I met few people that through work or through other friends. And they told me later that when they first met me, they were suspicious of me. But then after they knew me, these suspicions resolved and we became good friends. And I find it really hard now because the problem is the leaders or the candidates, they encouraging this fear and they are encouraging this division.

[George Packer]

We could start, Omar, with the governor of your own state of Indiana. And I should say you're now an American citizen and you are a doctor again at a hospital in Indianapolis, which is a great thing. But the governor of your own state refused to allow a Syrian family to be resettled there. And they had to be redirected from John F. Kennedy Airport to Connecticut, which welcomed them. I wonder how that made you feel as a resident of Indiana.

[Dr. Omar Sali Mahdi]

It really made me feel sad because that's. First of all, let's talk about this family themselves, who came from horrible situation and they're looking forward to a new life. They want friendly faces who smile at them. That's all what I wanted. And then they arrived and they hear this terrible news that you're unwelcome in Indiana. And luckily they find another state that welcomed them. And here in Indiana, that tells the people that we cannot trust those people. We cannot trust whoever comes from the Middle East. And I think this made damage to the relationships between people here.

[George Packer]

Did the mass shooting in San Bernardino, California, change anything for you, Omar? I think for some Americans, it seems to have sent a huge current of fear unlike anything I've ever seen in this country in my lifetime. And I'm wondering if you felt it there in Indianapolis.

[Dr. Omar Sali Mahdi]

I have felt it. I was in the hospital when this happened and I immediately, like, paused. I was going to see a patient and then I saw the breaking news came on my phone and I was like, oh my God, what's going on? And the whole night I had anxiety. I could hear my heart beating in my neck. I just wanted to hear what's going on. And I became more concerned when. When they say they were like, this is not like other mass shooting. There were two people, three people, and things were organized. And again, I was like, I hope it's not a Muslim. And that's usually the thought comes to me whenever I hear shooting or something bad happened. And then I finished my shift, I went home and I was still there, still didn't announce any names. And then I think around 11 or so when they said the name and it was said, said Farouk, I remember. And I cursed. Like, I was like, that's it. That's gonna even get the backlash. And usually I wake every morning on my alarm is set on npr and I immediately went to my clock and I turned it off because I didn't want to hear the news in the morning because I knew this will be really bad. I knew there will be a big backlash. And unfortunately, that's what happened. And again, Donald Trump, he started to had all this inflammatory response and he wanted to ban all Muslims. So he was telling people, look around you, whoever looks like a Muslim, this is a risk or this is a potential threat to you.

[George Packer]

Yeah. But you're here and you're not going to be going anywhere. And I'm going to remind you, Omar, that you owe me a visit.

[Dr. Omar Sali Mahdi]

I will come and visit, I promise.

[George Packer]

You better. Take care, Omar.

[Dr. Omar Sali Mahdi]

Thank you. You too.

[Dorothy Wickenden]

That was New Yorker staff writer George packer talking to Dr. Omar Sali Mahdi.

[David Remnick]

Right now, we are living through some of the most tumultuous political times our country has ever known. I'm David Remnick, and each week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, I'll try to make sense of what's happening alongside politicians and thinkers like Cory Booker, Nancy Pelosi, Liz Cheney, Tim Waltz, Ketanji Brown Jackson, Newt Gingrich, Robert F. Kennedy jr. Charlemagne, the God, and so many more. That's all in the New Yorker Radio Hour wherever you listen to podcasts.

[George Packer]

From PRX.