Harry Belafonte Talks to Jelani Cobb About Entertainment and Activism

Summary

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Podcast Summary

The Political Scene | The New Yorker
Episode: Harry Belafonte Talks to Jelani Cobb About Entertainment and Activism
Date: October 3, 2016
Host: Jelani Cobb

Overview

This episode features a deeply personal and reflective conversation between journalist and historian Jelani Cobb and legendary entertainer and activist Harry Belafonte. As the Many Rivers to Cross festival—a gathering of artists and activists—approaches, Belafonte reflects on his lifelong activism, his concerns about the current state of civil rights movements, and his hopes for the next generation of changemakers. The discussion blends historical insight with pressing commentary on the politics of 2016, revealing Belafonte's unique perspective as both a participant in history and a mentor to today's activists.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Setting & Introductions

• Jelani Cobb visits Belafonte in his office, which functions like an archive displaying his gold records, movie posters, and elements of his biography (03:19).
• Anecdote about Belafonte's failed burger joint, humorously highlighting his early struggles and generosity to fellow artists (05:08–05:33).
• Belafonte attributes his worldview to his upbringing as the child of hardworking yet disadvantaged West Indian immigrants (05:46).

2. Identity: Activist First, Artist Second

• Belafonte rejects the idea that he is an artist who became an activist:

  “People think of you as an artist who became an activist, but you think of yourself as an activist who became an artist.” — Jelani Cobb (06:05)
  “Yes, that's exactly correct… You become an activist the day you're born, because your whole lust and thrust and effort is to get out of poverty, and that requires a lot of work.” — Harry Belafonte (06:16)

3. Stories from the Movement

• Belafonte recounts a harrowing, covert mission with Sidney Poitier to deliver $100,000 to civil rights workers in Greenwood, Mississippi, avoiding both government surveillance and the Ku Klux Klan (07:06–08:31).
  • Memorable quote:

    “When we got to Greenwood, it was one of the darkest nights… these lights went up… I said, I think those are the feds. And Willie Blue said, ‘Feds, my ass. That's the Klan.’” — Harry Belafonte (07:55)

4. Reflection on Contemporary Activism

• Belafonte expresses disappointment and concern about the current state of organized black activism and leadership:

  “What really stuns me is the absence of black presence in the face of the kind of animus that's being heaped upon us… There is no real, substantial voice coming out of the black movement. Our organizations are fallow… It is the absence of black consciousness, black response to these things…” — Harry Belafonte (09:26)

• He distinguishes between a “movement,” which is organized and purposeful, and a “struggle,” which is reactive:

  “A movement... is an organized body with purpose, with declared targets, with clarity of philosophy, with an ideology. A struggle is when somebody slaps you and you try to cover yourself from the blow.” — Belafonte (11:06)

5. On Passing the Baton and Black Lives Matter

• He critiques established organizations for leaving a leadership vacuum:

  “There is no voice that stands strong in leading some mighty response, some righteous response to what's going on.” — Belafonte (12:06)

• Belafonte acknowledges and takes pride in younger voices, including John Legend and Black Lives Matter activists, who view him as a mentor (13:01).

  “When I listen to young people like Jesse Williams, when I listen to John Legend... I feel rewarded that somewhere along the line, these are the dividends for what we invested. All my colleagues were now dead and gone because I now understand that I'm officially at the end. I don't want to do it anymore.” — Belafonte (13:01)

6. Belafonte’s Present and Future Outlook

• Belafonte discusses his advancing age and shifting priorities:

  “I am going to spend the rest of my days perhaps being more radical than I ever thought I would ever be, saying things that are more radical because I no longer want to lead anything… I just want to say the truth and what it is.” — Belafonte (13:46)

• He’s keen to focus on honesty and speaking truth to power rather than organizational leadership as he looks toward his legacy.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On activism as an identity:

  “You become an activist the day you're born…” — Belafonte (06:16)

• On courage and danger in the movement:

  “Feds, my ass. That's the Klan.” — Willie Blue, relayed by Belafonte (07:55)

• On lost organizational power:

  “Our organizations are fallow. Where is SNCC? Where is SCLC, the NAACP? …There’s no labor movement in this country. There’s a labor struggle, but there’s no labor movement.” — Belafonte (09:26; 10:30)

• On passing the baton to youth:

  “When I listen to young people... I feel rewarded that somewhere along the line, these are the dividends for what we invested.” — Belafonte (13:01)

• On radical honesty in later life:

  “I just want to say the truth and what it is. There's a lot of stuff to be said. Where I go with it, I don't know. But I won't be knocking at your door.” — Belafonte (13:46)

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Key Timestamps

• 03:19 — Description of Belafonte’s office and legacy artifacts
• 05:08–05:33 — Belafonte's early struggles as a restaurant owner
• 06:16 — Belafonte on identity as an activist
• 07:06–08:31 — Story of clandestine trip to Mississippi with Sidney Poitier
• 09:26–11:02 — Critique of current civil rights leadership’s absence
• 12:06 — On the failed continuation of strong organizations
• 13:01 — Reflections on the new generation and passing the baton
• 13:46 — Belafonte on being more radical and focusing on speaking truth

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Tone and Style

The episode is reflective, conversational, and deeply personal, capturing Belafonte’s gravitas, wit, and unwavering commitment to justice. Jelani Cobb’s respectful curiosity helps draw out nuanced reflections, allowing listeners to traverse civil rights history while staying rooted in today’s urgent struggles.

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Final Thoughts

This intimate conversation with Harry Belafonte offers an invaluable bridge between generations of activists. His recollections serve both as a powerful historical record and a call to action for new leaders—emphasizing the necessity, courage, and soul of organized movements. Belafonte may be stepping back from leadership, but his candor and perspective continue to resonate as a radical voice for truth.

Transcript

[Narrator/Host]

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[David Remnick]

This weekend in Atlanta, there's a festival taking place called Many Rivers to Cross. It's billed as a festival of music, art and justice, and it brings top performers like Chris Rock and Macklemore together with activists like Cornel west and the founders of Black Lives Matter. Many Rivers to Cross is the brainchild of none other than than Harry Belafonte and the organization he founded called Sankofa. Now, today we take for granted, more or less, that entertainers can speak out and advocate for all kinds of causes. But Harry Belafonte was one of the pioneers. He was at the very center of the civil rights movement and he was a confidant of Martin Luther King Jr. Later, he worked with Nelson Mandela to bring down apartheid in South Africa. And of course, he was one of the great performers of his era, adored by millions of.

[Jelani Cobb]

Down the way where the nights are gay and the sun shines daily on the mountaintop I took a trip on a sailing ship and when I reached Jamaica I made a stop But I'm sad to say I'm on my way Won't be back for many a day My heart is down My head is turning around I had to leave a little girl in Kingston town.

[David Remnick]

One of Belafonte's fans is Jelani Cobb, who writes a lot on civil rights issues and politics for the New Yorker.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

This is his office.

[David Remnick]

Just recently, Jelani went to Belafonte's office in midtown Manhattan, where they were working out the final details of this weekend's festival.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

So Mr. Belafonte's office is like an archive. Hey, how are you? You know, when you walk in, there are his gold records that are on the wall, and then there are posters from some of his films, and you kind of walk through his biography by looking at what's on the walls. When we got there, we talked for a moment with his daughter. She's really heavily involved in working out the logistical details for the festival.

[Narrator/Host]

Now it's just a matter of, you know, pushing our ticket sales and having bodies on the ground.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

We were waiting for Mr. Belafonte to arrive, and some people walk into a room and some people make an entrance.

[Jelani Cobb]

I rush through this verbiage, just express my regrets.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

And at 89 years old, Harry Belafonte still makes an entrance. I jokingly told him that a friend of mine, when I mentioned that I was going to be talking to him, I asked her if there's anything that I should ask him for her. And she said, yes, ask him if I can have his phone number. And this is someone who is in her 30s. He now walks with a cane, and he's thinner than he has been in earlier points of his life. But there's still something really very dignified about him. Sir, it's good to see you.

[Jelani Cobb]

I gotta tell you something. I discovered it's nice to see anybody.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

You know, with Belafonte. It's like picking up an encyclopedia and flipping through the pages. There's so much information there, and there's so much lived experience. Like the fact that he owned a burger joint in the Village at some point in his career when he was convinced that he wouldn't make it as an actor.

[Jelani Cobb]

Yeah. Did not own it long because he went bankrupt. I didn't charge enough for the hamburgers. Most of the people who came to eat in the restaurant were all my friends, acting students who also broke and didn't. And said, I'll pay you when I get from my next gig. Well, I got a drawer full of next gigs. No money.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

When you talk to him, he kind of grounds his sense of identity and everything he is. And being the child of two very hardworking, but nonetheless disadvantaged West Indian immigrants.

[Jelani Cobb]

As a young person, watching my mother go through the indignities of poverty, she came home too often broken. A broken person. She stood in line down onto the L on 3rd Avenue to get day one.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

This is in Harlem.

[Jelani Cobb]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Something you said that was really interesting, I thought, which is that you said, people think of you as an artist who became an activist, but you think of yourself as an activist who became an artist.

[Jelani Cobb]

Yes, that's exactly correct. When people say, when did you become an activist? I just said, well, I don't know how you can ask citizens of color who were born into poverty, when did you become an activist? You really become an activist the day you're born, because your whole lust and thrust and effort is to get out of poverty, and that requires a lot of work.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

One of the more notable things, I think, was the story he told about going to Mississippi with Sidney poitier to bring $100,000 to civil rights activists there. You know, Sidney Poitier is, of course, the great African American actor and Harry Belafonte's oldest friend.

[Jelani Cobb]

I called Sidney Poitier, which I'd been in the habit of doing, for us, to go for fun and games. So he thought this was that kind of call. So when I called him, he said. And I said, I got to go down to Greenwood, Mississippi. And there was this long pause. Belafonte, what are you going to green with Mississippi for? I spelled it out, and so on.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

The face of it, it sounds absurd. These are two of the most recognizable figures in Hollywood, in American culture, at this point, and they are trying to organize a clandestine trip to Mississippi to funnel money to a civil rights organization that can't get it any other way.

[Jelani Cobb]

When we got to Greenwood, it was one of the darkest nights. I remembered seeing no electricity at all in this little dirt airport. And just at that moment, in a circle around the airfield, these lights went up. And in the distance, there were cars. And I was with a guy named Willie Blue. I said to Sidney, I think those are the feds. And Willie Blue said, feds, my ass. That's the Klan. Wow. I looked at Sidney, and he was not very. He was not. He was not in a humorous mood.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

It's just really kind of amazing story. And the dynamics between the two of them and driving around in the middle of the night and being concerned that the Klan is going to come get them. And it's funny, but it's also poignant. And at 89 years old, it's very easy to just talk about life in the past tense. But I think the other reason why I wanted to talk to Mr. Belafonte was the fact that he is so deeply enmeshed in things that are contemporary and current. He's not talking about things that happened in 1966, except as a means of shedding light on what happens in 2016. Have you been surprised or dismayed by anything that's happened in our current politics that makes this moment particularly important?

[Jelani Cobb]

Yes. What really stuns me is the absence of black presence in the face of the kind of animus that's being heaped upon us to gerrymander voting districts, to change the voting zones, to close down privileges that are given to workers, Sundays and weekends to be able to vote. This onslaught is all about race. And there is no real, substantial voice coming out of the black movement. Our organizations are fallow. Where is sncc? Where is sclc, the naacp? It is the absence of black consciousness, black response to these things that I think that has ennobled people, like emboldened them. Like.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Black Lives Matter, I presume.

[Jelani Cobb]

Well, Black Lives Matter is something we created, but I'm thinking the Donald Trumps of the world. Where's the black voice? Where's the black Congress? Where are the committees? Not individuals, but where's the collective? We don't have a labor movement like we had when we did the March on Washington, because labor movement, by and large, belly upped. There is no labor movement in this country. There's a labor struggle, but there's no labor movement. We have no peace movement.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

What do you see the difference between those two things? A labor struggle and a labor movement.

[Jelani Cobb]

A movement, I think, is an organized body with purpose, with declared targets, with clarity of philosophy, with an ideology. A struggle is when somebody slaps you and you try to cover yourself from the blow. There is no underbelly. There's no grit. There's no challenge. And we certainly don't have the political leadership. It's not in the White House. It's not in the Congress. I kind of welcome this.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Mr. Belafonte was trying to orient himself, I think, in time and in a kind of activist space. He began talking about what he saw as the failures of organizations that were led by his contemporaries and that they left a void that had to be filled by other groups. And I think he was implying that the rise of things like Black Lives Matter was as a result of, you know, I think it's probably not too harsh to say other people dropping the baton.

[Jelani Cobb]

There is no voice that stands strong in leading some mighty response, some righteous response to what's going on.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

I think it's important to recognize also the reverence that a lot of younger people have for Belafonte. You know, John Legend certainly is one of those people and various voices and elements of Black Lives Matter that have been in dialogue with him. And there is a cadre of younger artistic and activist people who see in Belafonte kind of a mentor figure, kind of one of the last vital links to the civil rights movement that much of this work is still inspired by. And I'm not sure there's anyone else who quite occupies that niche.

[Jelani Cobb]

When I listen to young people like Jesse Williams, when I listen to John Legend step in and speak out, I feel rewarded that somewhere along the line, these are the dividends for what we invested. All my colleagues were now dead and gone because I now understand that I'm officially at the end. I don't want to do it anymore.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

It was jarring to see him talk about the fact that we all have a finite amount of time here, and he's thinking very much about what it is that he's done.

[Jelani Cobb]

I am going to spend the rest of my days perhaps being more radical than I ever thought I would ever be, saying things that are more radical because I no longer want to lead anything or be part. I just want to say the truth and what it is. There's a lot of stuff to be said. Where I go with it, I don't know. But I won't be knocking at your door.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

I'm always eager to Talk to you, Mr. Belaconte.

[Jelani Cobb]

Sounds of laughter everywhere and the dancing girls swaying to and fro I must declare my heart is there Though I've been from Maine to Mexico But I'm sad to say I'm on my way I won't be back for many a day My heart is down My head is turning around I had to leave a little girl.

[Narrator/Host]

That was Jelani Cobb talking to Harry Belafonte.

[David Remnick]

Right now, we are living through some of the most tumultuous political times our country has ever known. I'm David Remnick, and each week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, I'll try to make sense of what's happening alongside politicians and thinkers like Cory Booker, Nancy Pelosi, Liz Cheney, Tim Waltz, Ketanji Brown Jackson, Newt Gingrich, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Charlamagne, tha God, and so many more. That's all in the New Yorker Radio Hour wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Jelani Cobb]

From prx.