Podcast Summary: The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Episode: Hendrik Hertzberg, Ryan Lizza, and John Cassidy on the Aftermath of the Republican Defeat
Date: October 18, 2013
Host: Amelia Lester (for Dorothy Wickenden)
Guests: Hendrik Hertzberg, Ryan Lizza, John Cassidy

Overview

This episode of The Political Scene discusses the immediate aftermath of the 2013 federal government shutdown and debt ceiling crisis. Amelia Lester is joined by New Yorker staff writers Hendrik Hertzberg, Ryan Lizza, and John Cassidy to unpack the political dynamics, winner/loser narratives, Republican party strategy, the Obama administration’s handling, and the implications for future budget and debt negotiations in Congress. The conversation gives particular insight into the structural issues of American politics, the economic fallout, and the evolving identity of the Republican Party.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Government Shutdown Aftermath and the ‘No Winners’ Perspective

Timestamps: 01:14–03:59

• Obama’s Position: Emphasis on moving away from “governing by crisis.”

  “We've got to get out of the habit of governing by crisis.” (Obama, quoted by John Cassidy, 01:36)

• No Real Winners: All panelists agree the country and government were harmed, even if the Republicans “lost” more clearly.
  • International reputation and U.S. credit were negatively affected.
  • “Winning and losing is often relative. If you score minus 5, you do a little better than someone who scores minus 20. But... the country has been damaged...” — Hendrik Hertzberg (02:10)
• Economic Impact: Estimated loss of 0.5% GDP growth in the next quarter and significant, if temporary, costs from government closure.

2. Did the Crisis Change Washington Politics?

Timestamps: 03:59–05:27

• Republican ‘Fever’ Not Broken:
  • Skepticism about the idea that Republicans will avoid such brinkmanship in the future.
  • “The analysis... that Obama can somehow break the fever of the Republican Party... just misses the structural issues.” — Ryan Lizza (03:26)
  • U.S. political structure makes oppositional politics entrenched and hard to shift.
• American System at Fault:

  “It just doesn't work very well. The duty of an opposition is to oppose... Our system can't really accommodate that.” — Hendrik Hertzberg (04:24)

• Violation of Norms: Republicans’ tactics were unprecedented and breached traditional norms, described as “thoroughly unpleasant jerks.” — Hertzberg (05:18)

3. Obama’s Performance and Market Reaction

Timestamps: 05:27–07:05

• Obama stood firm and is credited for this approach:
  • Despite constant criticism, he “finally did it here and... he won” — John Cassidy (05:27)
  • “He has established a principle here that, you know, he’s not going to give in on issues like the debt ceiling.” (05:27)
• Markets, though jittery, never panicked — seen as Washington theater by economic actors.
• U.S. reputation took a hit, but serious financial crisis was avoided.

4. Republican Humiliation and Internal Dynamics

Timestamps: 07:05–09:22

• Republicans lost:
  “It is a humiliation for the Republican Party. There's no doubt about that.” — John Cassidy (07:19)
  • Minimal concessions won: only a minor tightening of ACA eligibility, which arguably strengthened the law.
• Tea Party/Protest Faction:
  • Some on the right frame the shutdown as proof of standing up to both Obama and the GOP establishment, perpetuating internal party strife.
  • “We’ve got a protest party within the Republican Party. This is not a party which is interested in government.” — Cassidy (08:13)
• Ongoing Peril: Continuous crisis is likely; underlying divisions remain.

5. Boehner’s Leadership and GOP Future

Timestamps: 09:44–11:33

• John Boehner: Contrary to fears, Boehner’s speakership seemed secure as he received reluctant right-wing support.
  • “He leaned far enough to the right... there's not going to be a challenge there.” — John Cassidy (09:53)
• Presidential Field: The Tea Party has redefined the party’s national image, eclipsing establishment calls for moderation.
  • Notable quip: “Can Cruz run for president because he was born in Canada? ... It’s not like he’s Kenyan or anything.” (10:36)

6. Fractures Between GOP Base and Business Interests

Timestamps: 11:33–12:13

• Traditional GOP backers (business/corporations) are alarmed by the extreme approach of Tea Party Republicans — a notable split from historic party unity.

7. The Problem of Republican Moderates

Timestamps: 12:00–13:35

• The “economic basis” for moderate GOP politics still exists, but the “political basis seems to have disappeared.”
• Candidates seeking national office must avoid moderation to survive primaries — see Marco Rubio’s immigration efforts vs. Ted Cruz’s intransigence as case studies.
• “Anyone who opposed this strategy will pay a price for it.” — Ryan Lizza (12:13)

8. Prospects for Future Negotiations

Timestamps: 13:35–16:59

• Budget Deadlock to Continue:
  • The area of agreement between Democrats and Republicans remains slim.
  • “I don't really see the contours of a deal here.” — Ryan Lizza (13:52)
  • Sequester likely to remain, enforcing continued austerity.
• Deficit Discussion:
  • The U.S. deficit fell rapidly (from 10% to 3% of GDP), but austerity persists.
  • More stimulus is needed, not more cuts; the country risks tepid growth due to political paralysis.
  • “We’ve already had quite a lot of austerity. We should be focusing on growing the economy now, but there doesn’t seem to be any chance of switching to that.” — John Cassidy (15:03)
  • “Isn't the implication... that the problem with the deficit is that the deficit has to be bigger?... No politician dares say that.” — Hendrik Hertzberg (15:49)
  • “Just to repeat, we’ve had this historic fall in the deficit from 10% to 3% of GDP. I mean, I really can’t remember the last time that happened.” — John Cassidy (16:59)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the systemic issues:
  “It just doesn't work very well. The duty of an opposition is to oppose... Our system can't really accommodate that.” — Hendrik Hertzberg (04:24)
• On Republican tactics:
  “[They] were violating custom. They were violating tradition. They were thoroughly unpleasant jerks.” — Hendrik Hertzberg (05:18)
• On the scale of the GOP defeat:
  “It is a humiliation for the Republican party. There’s no doubt about that.” — John Cassidy (07:19)
  “They strengthened Obamacare.” — Ryan Lizza (07:40)
• On the deficit:
  “We’ve had this historic fall in the deficit from 10% to 3% of GDP... I really can’t remember the last time that happened.” — John Cassidy (16:59)
• On party divides and the future:
  “Anyone who opposed this strategy will pay a price for it, which is why all of the Republican candidates... voted against it.” — Ryan Lizza (12:13)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:36 – President Obama’s remarks about moving beyond “governing by crisis”
• 02:10–03:59 – Panel on the “no winners” dynamic and the impact on the country
• 04:24 – Hendrik Hertzberg on the flaws of the American political system
• 05:27–07:05 – Obama’s handling, market reactions, and international perceptions
• 07:19 – John Cassidy on the Republican defeat and deal analysis
• 09:53 – John Boehner’s position after the crisis
• 10:36 – 2016 presidential field, and humorous aside on Cruz’s eligibility
• 12:13 – Ryan Lizza on the price of moderation in the Republican primary
• 13:52–16:59 – Future of budget negotiations, the deficit, and economic outlook

Tone & Language

• Direct, analytical, and sometimes wry.
• Frustration and skepticism toward American political gridlock are prominent.
• Notably, quips and pointed jabs (particularly about the GOP’s direction and Ted Cruz’s eligibility) leaven the policy-heavy discussion.

Conclusion

The episode provides a sharp, critical, and sometimes bleak assessment of the state of American politics after the 2013 shutdown. It argues that while Obama managed to hold firm, real change — either in Congressional behavior or economic policy — remains distant. The Republican Party is split between moderates and hardliners, and the structure of American politics ensures further “governing by crisis.” The country, not just individual parties, is the true loser in this dynamic.