Podcast Summary: The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Episode: How Much More Can Federal Workers Take?

Host: Tyler Foggatt
Guest: E. Tammy Kim (Staff Writer, The New Yorker)
Release Date: October 15, 2025

Overview

This episode explores the ongoing 2025 federal government shutdown and its unprecedented toll on federal workers. Host Tyler Foggatt speaks with New Yorker staff writer E. Tammy Kim, who covers politics and labor, about the day-to-day realities for furloughed and essential employees, the Trump administration's use of the shutdown to carry out mass layoffs, and the broader assault on public service. The conversation dives into the legal, personal, and political implications, including the administration’s targeting of “Democrat programs,” the erosion of union protections, and the possible long-term disruptions to democratic governance.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Federal Workers’ Mindset in the 2025 Shutdown

• Emotional Exhaustion and Resignation:

  • Many workers express resignation, with some “texting emojis of shrug emoji” to Tammy Kim, signaling deep fatigue and disbelief at ongoing cutbacks. (00:47)
  • “How much worse can it be? How much more can they do to me?” — reflects a climate of despair and normalization of chaos.

• Three Main Buckets of Federal Workers: (02:05)

  • The deeply committed: Lifelong civil servants “who aren’t going to let President Trump and Russell Vought drag them out of their jobs.”
  • Those dependent on income: Especially in regions with tight job markets, some applied for “75 jobs,” including at Costco and Trader Joe’s.
  • Older workers near retirement: “They want to make that 20 or 25 year mark so they can get their payout.”

2. How We Got Here: The Path to Shutdown

• The Trigger:

  • An impasse over ACA health care subsidies expiring at the end of 2025 is the central sticking point. Democrats refuse to pass a budget without them. (04:31)
  • Unlike prior shutdowns, there is “very little dialogue” between parties or with the White House, distinguishing this crisis from earlier ones. (04:31)

• Federal Workforce Mostly Supports Democrats:

  • Despite the hardship, federal workers appear largely supportive of Democrats holding out for health care funding. (05:40, 06:28)
  • The shutdown is viewed more as an escalation of a long-term campaign against federal employees.

3. Who Is Working—and Who Isn’t?

• Status of Federal Workers:

  • Split into: essential (working unpaid), furloughed (not working, unpaid), fee-funded or Fed-funded (in some cases still working or being laid off anyway). (08:13)
  • Essential roles include “air traffic controllers, TSA, National Guard, military”—but even these categories shift by administration priorities, e.g., now “all immigration court judges are considered essential.” (08:55)

• The Scale of the Furloughs:

  • “About 600,000” workers furloughed, now a majority due to cumulative terminations and resignations since early 2025. (10:14)
  • Essential workers calling in sick (especially air traffic controllers) and closures at national parks, Smithsonian, and cutsback in Social Security field offices are rippling out to inconvenience the general public. (11:26)

• Pay for Military & Guard:

  • The administration scrambled to pay military workers by raiding “a vague category of research funds.” National Guard, especially reservists, are not being paid and face precarious situations. (12:31, 13:29)

4. How Are Federal Workers Coping?

• Financial Hardship Across the Board:

  • Workers seek charity (e.g., “some have been talking about going to soup kitchens”), emergency work-from-home arrangements to save costs, and hardship requests for agency help. (14:28)
  • “The stereotype is that federal workers are overpaid and lazy bureaucrats... but at the bottom, these are fairly modest incomes.”

• Workplace Surveillance and Union Decertification:

  • Increased “surveillance culture”—workers afraid to even check their email, as it could jeopardize their jobs. (16:28)

  • Over a million workers have lost union rights via Trump’s executive orders, decimating routine workplace protections. (17:58)

    “On Friday, there were a bunch of firings of people in the Education Department... they actually couldn’t confirm whether they were individually fired because they had been prohibited from accessing their computers...” — Tammy Kim (16:28)

5. The Administration’s Aggressive Reduction in Force (RIF) Strategy

• Mass Layoffs Under Dubious Legal Grounds:

  • Russell Vought, as OMB director, announced “RIFs have begun,” with 4,200 layoffs and more likely. (20:32, 21:19)

  • Layoffs often issued as permanent firings, not routine furloughs—this is “completely unprecedented.” (22:50)

  • Federal unions are contesting in court, and judges are forcing the administration to declare the number and rationale for layoffs. (21:19)

    “Some federal workers have gotten notices now that say something like, ‘due to the shutdown, you are being fired.’ Which again, that seems not quite legal.” — Tammy Kim (21:19)

• Chaotic Administration & Focused on Partisan Cuts:

  • Notable forlayoffs at CDC (with over half rescinded after public pressure), nickel-and-dime cuts at Health and Human Services and the Department of Education, and doxxing “Democrat programs.” (23:56, 28:19)
  • Cuts go beyond typical partisan lines, eliminating units like “mental health and substance abuse,” which affect red states, too. (28:31)

• Aggressive Partisan Messaging:

  • Agencies instructed to blame Democrats in public auto-messages. Example: “We tried not to shut down the Government, but we had to, because of the Democrats” on HUD homepage. (24:57)
  • This directive deeply shocked career nonpartisan employees, crossing a new ethical line. (24:57)

6. The Fight Over Back Pay and Funding

• Selective Back Pay as Political Weapon:
  • Trump toyed with the idea of back pay only for selected furloughed workers—a move both “unprecedented and not, to my mind, lawful.” (27:16, 27:35)
• Frozen and Cancelled Projects:
  • The administration froze nearly $2 billion in New York infrastructure and cancelled $8 billion in climate projects for Democratic-led states, many actions of dubious legality. (29:47, 30:28)
  • Ongoing disregard for congressional “power of the purse.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Resignation and exhaustion among federal workers:

  “How much worse can it be? How much more can they do to me?”
  — Tammy Kim (00:47)

• On the new categories of surviving federal employees:

  “There’s a little bit of mischief... ‘I’m not going to let President Trump and Russell Vought drag me out of my job.’”
  — Tammy Kim (02:05)

• On the shifting definition of ‘essential’ staff:

  “Now all [immigration court judges] are considered essential because deportation and detention are obviously priorities of this administration.”
  — Tammy Kim (08:55)

• On the impact of mass layoffs:

  “The majority of the federal workforce [is furloughed] because of so many terminations and resignations since the start of the year.”
  — Tammy Kim (10:14)

• On loss of union protections:

  “Their unions have been decertified... over a million workers. So now nothing is there.”
  — Tammy Kim (17:58)

• On being told to use partisan out-of-office messages:

  “The fact that they were told to say to the American public... that it was because the Democrats did this... was really deeply offensive and sort of triggered some ethical boundary.”
  — Tammy Kim (24:57)

• On administration’s intent in layoffs:

  “This is a shutdown like no other shutdown.”
  — Tammy Kim (27:35)

• On future federal recruitment & morale:

  “Who’s going to be applying for these jobs with the partisan cast of the functioning of the federal government? ...it sets it up for every time the government changes hands, you see Democrats coming in... and not wanting to stay then after those four years are up. And that... is the primary injury to the functioning of the American government—potentially democracy.”
  — Tammy Kim (40:24)

Important Timestamps

• 00:47: Tammy Kim outlines the current emotional state of federal workers.
• 02:05: Three “buckets” (types) of remaining federal workers.
• 04:31: The ACA impasse as the shutdown trigger.
• 08:13: Breakdown of essential, furloughed, and fee-funded workers.
• 10:14: Scope of furloughs—majority of workforce now affected.
• 11:26: Real-world impacts (airports, parks, Social Security).
• 14:28: Workers turning to soup kitchens, hardship plans.
• 16:28: Heightened surveillance, Kafkaesque uncertainties, loss of union rights.
• 21:19: The legal battle over reductions in force (RIF).
• 22:50: Permanent firing during shutdown is unprecedented.
• 24:57: Agencies and individuals forced to use blame-the-Democrats language.
• 27:16: Trump threatens withholding back pay even if the shutdown ends.
• 28:19: Targeting “Democrat programs”—deep cuts at Education, HHS.
• 29:47: Freeze/canceling infrastructure and climate project funding.
• 32:38: Will the public buy the messaging that blames the opposition party?
• 34:45: Discussion of whether healthcare remains a salient issue.
• 39:35: The shutdown as a “sea change” in the culture of federal employment.
• 40:24: Long-term threats to democracy and federal government function.

Conclusion

This episode offers a candid and sobering view of the 2025 federal government shutdown’s toll—on individuals, the public workforce, and American democracy. E. Tammy Kim details unprecedented cutbacks, legal battles, humiliation tactics, and the slow dismantling of nonpartisan public service. The conversation makes clear that, even if the shutdown ends soon, the ramifications for federal workers, their rights, agency functions, and future recruitment could be felt for decades.