Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Political Scene | The New Yorker
Episode: Jake Sullivan Talks to David Remnick About Clinton and Putin
Date: August 22, 2016
Host: David Remnick
Guest: Jake Sullivan (Senior Policy Advisor to Hillary Clinton, former Deputy Chief of Staff when she was Secretary of State)

Overview

This episode features a timely and candid discussion with Jake Sullivan, Hillary Clinton’s top foreign policy advisor during the 2016 US presidential campaign. David Remnick presses Sullivan on the state of US-Russia relations, the legacy and failure of the Obama administration’s “reset” with Russia, the personal and political dynamics between Clinton and Vladimir Putin, and the unprecedented Russian cyber-interference in the 2016 election.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Deterioration of US-Russia Relations

• Remnick provides historical context on Putin's strengthening grip on Russia and growing willingness to confront the West (01:32-02:33).

• Sullivan asserts the relationship is fundamentally adversarial but argues that productive cooperation on key international issues (e.g., arms reduction, Iran nuclear deal) is still possible (03:03).

  "I think it's going to be a challenging relationship because Putin has made fundamentally clear where he stands on a number of issues that are adverse to the United States."
  – Jake Sullivan (03:03)

2. Is This a New Cold War?

• Sullivan rejects equating current tensions with the Cold War, pointing to recent successful US-Russian collaboration (03:45).

  "Just last year, the United States and Russia worked together to produce the agreement with Iran that has put a lid on Iran's nuclear program. So we are clearly capable of continuing to work with them."
  – Jake Sullivan (03:45)

3. Russian & American Interventions: False Equivalence?

• Remnick/Russian perspective: US has also violated sovereignty (e.g. Iraq, Libya).

• Sullivan argues these are “debaters’ points and false equivalences,” emphasizing differences in motives and methods (04:14-05:28).

  "He loves to compare Kosovo to Crimea and Ukraine... On a number of different dimensions they are not at all comparable..."
  – Jake Sullivan (04:41)

4. Putin’s Hybrid Warfare: Asymmetric Influence, Not Just Tanks

• Sullivan sees the main threat not as direct military assault but as Russia’s “insidious exercise of malign influence” over democracies through corruption, economic pressure, and subversion (06:10).

  "The thing that really worries me... is not so much tanks rolling across a frontier as the insidious exercise of malign influence... That’s an asymmetric form of low grade warfare that I think the United States and our allies need to get used to seeing from Russia."
  – Jake Sullivan (06:10)

5. Russian Interference in the 2016 Election

• Discussion of the DNC hack: Sullivan refuses to speculate on Russian motives but lists facts – Russian involvement is widely accepted, and Trump’s platform closely tracks Putin’s interests (07:44-08:24).

• Concrete examples: weakening support for NATO, lifting Russia sanctions, changing GOP platform on Ukraine, excusing Russian abuses (08:24-09:28).

  "The Trump campaign’s policy agenda on a wide range of foreign policy matters lines up very neatly with Vladimir Putin’s wish list..."
  – Jake Sullivan (07:44)

6. Clinton-Putin Dynamic

• Rumors of hostile, personal animosity between Clinton and Putin are overstated. Sullivan describes their interactions as tough but direct, noting they could cooperate productively on issues like Iran and wildlife trafficking (09:35-10:36).

  "It's not a nasty atmosphere. I think it's an atmosphere that is tough and direct, but not nasty. They were able to have practical and productive conversations..."
  – Jake Sullivan (09:35)

7. Fear of More Russian ‘Kompromat’ and Cyberattacks During the Campaign

• Sullivan warns it would be “folly” to assume Russia won’t escalate—more leaks may come, elevating this to a pressing national security issue that transcends partisanship (11:05).

  "...whether you're a Democrat, a Republican, or an Independent, that should absolutely motivate you to say, what the heck are we going to do as the United States of America to push back against a foreign power...interfering in the basic institution of democracy in the United States?"
  – Jake Sullivan (11:05)

8. End of Privacy for Governments and Campaigns

• Both the host and Sullivan reflect on the end of normal operational secrecy: with today’s technology (e.g., smartphones, ubiquitous surveillance), discretion is virtually impossible outside secured settings (12:40-13:07).

• Sullivan directly affirms that his own communications habits changed—he now avoids substantive topics over email or phone due to surveillance fears (13:19).

  “At this point, you cannot use email as a means of communicating anything of really meaningful substance, classified or otherwise.”
  – Jake Sullivan (13:21)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the precarious state of US-Russian relations:

  "I think it's going to be a challenging relationship..." (Jake Sullivan, 03:03)

• On Russian ‘false equivalence’ arguments:

  "These are debater’s points and false equivalences..." (Jake Sullivan, 04:41)

• On the threat of Russian hybrid warfare:

  "...insidious exercise of malign influence... an asymmetric form of low grade warfare..." (Jake Sullivan, 06:10)

• On the gravity of Russian cyberinterference:

  "That is a national security issue." (Jake Sullivan, 11:05)

• On adapting to a new era of surveillance:

  "At this point, you cannot use email as a means of communicating anything of really meaningful substance..." (Jake Sullivan, 13:21)

Important Timestamps

• 01:32 — Introduction of Vladimir Putin’s recent actions and global implications
• 03:03 — Sullivan on the “reset,” future of US-Russia relations
• 04:41 — Sullivan rebuts Russian critiques of US interventions
• 06:10 — Discussion of Russia’s “asymmetric” subversion of democracies
• 07:44 — Russian hacking of DNC, motives, and Trump campaign alignment
• 09:35 — Clinton-Putin personal relationship
• 11:05 — Fear of future Russian cyber-operations in the campaign
• 12:40 — The new normal: surveillance and loss of discretion
• 13:19 — How national security officials have changed their own communication habits

Conclusion

Jake Sullivan frames Hillary Clinton’s approach to Russia as one of pragmatic realism—open to cooperation but clear-eyed about the adversarial intentions of Putin. The discussion highlights the evolution of Russia’s threat from tanks to cyber and political subversion, the extraordinary gravity of outside interference in US democracy, and the transformation of privacy and secrecy in the age of digital surveillance. Sullivan’s responses blend policy defense with sober warnings about the future of global politics and cybersecurity.