Podcast Summary

The Political Scene | The New Yorker
Episode: Jill Lepore and Patrick Radden Keefe on the Politics of Gun Control after the Newtown Shooting
Date: December 22, 2012
Host: Dorothy Wickenden

Main Theme

This episode features a conversation between Dorothy Wickenden (Executive Editor, The New Yorker), Jill Lepore, and Patrick Radden Keefe, focusing on the aftermath of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting in Newtown, Connecticut. The discussion explores the historical and political context of gun control in the United States, the National Rifle Association’s (NRA) response to mass shootings, and the possibilities for policy change in the wake of national tragedy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Context: Sandy Hook and Recent Mass Shootings

• Dorothy Wickenden lays out a list of mass shootings since 2004, underscoring the frequency and severity of such events post-expiration of the federal assault weapons ban.
  • "In the last five years, Virginia Tech, Fort Hood, Texas, the shooting of Representative Gabrielle Giffords ... Aurora, Colorado and last week, of course, the massacre of 26 children and adults at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut." [01:31]

2. Political Reactions

• President Obama vows to advance efforts to prevent gun violence, recognizing the complexity but insisting on action.

  • Barack Obama: “We won’t prevent them all, but that can’t be an excuse not to try. It won’t be easy. But that can’t be an excuse not to try.” [01:59]

• NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre holds a highly publicized press conference, laying out the association's unchanged position:

  • Wayne LaPierre: “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun... Will you at least admit it’s possible that 26 innocent lives might have been spared that day?” [02:24]

3. NRA Policy and Strategy

• Jill Lepore recalls her interview with David Keene (NRA president), noting the organization's steadfast refusal to comment on specific shootings, thus avoiding reckoning with individual tragedies.

  • Jill Lepore: “We refuse to reckon with atrocity. We refuse to enter into a conversation about an actual shooting, because this conversation cannot and should not ever be about guns. Shootings are about mental illness.” [03:19]

• The NRA’s post-Sandy Hook plan: creation of the “National School Shield Program”—armed, trained personnel in schools.

  • Lepore points out the contradiction between fearing a police state and proposing a quasi-military presence in schools. [04:34]

4. The NRA’s Organizational Strength

• Patrick Radden Keefe argues that the NRA’s effectiveness is paradoxically heightened when under perceived threat, real or imagined:

  • “The more embattled the NRA appears to its own membership, the more successful it becomes as an organization.” [05:45]

• Even in times of government inaction, the NRA mobilizes its base around the idea that restrictive legislation is imminent, fueling spikes in gun sales and membership.

  • “You end up with this ... perverse scenario ... after one of these big shootings ... you tend to get ... a spike in gun sales and a kind of doubling down on this very expansive view of Second Amendment rights by the gun lobby.” [07:15]

5. Evolution of the NRA

• Lepore explains how the NRA shifted from a marksmanship and hunting group to a political powerhouse advocating expansive gun rights.
  • “The NRA was founded in 1871 ... largely recreational ... It’s not until after the assassination of John F. Kennedy that the possession of private firearms comes to be the subject of federal legislation..." [08:00]
  • A leadership coup in the 1970s redirected the organization toward politics and single-issue advocacy for gun ownership, leading to its modern incarnation. [08:00–09:49]

6. Counterarguments and the Opposition

• Keefe and Lepore discuss the flaws in the “good guy with a gun” argument, referencing incidents like the Empire State Building and Columbine where armed personnel failed to prevent violence or caused harm.
  • Jill Lepore: “Another example, of course, is Columbine, where there were two armed guards.” [10:52]
  • The NRA's superior organization and ability to sustain energy contrasts with often fleeting public outrage after tragedies.
  • “The NRA's secret has been organization... They're playing a slightly longer game than the program gun control groups are doing.” [10:56]

7. Prospects for Gun Control Legislation

• Keefe presents a “short menu” of conceivable legislative measures:

  • Reinstating federal assault weapons ban — considered an unlikely lift in the current Congress.
  • Banning high-capacity magazines — potentially more achievable.
  • Closing the federal background check loophole — significant support even among gun owners and NRA members.
  • “We don’t have real federal background checks for about 40% of the gun purchases in this country ... There’s support among gun owners and even NRA members for closing that loophole...” [12:17–14:07]

• Lepore highlights how far the Overton window has shifted—in politics, the judiciary, and culture—even Democrats and Obama campaigned on an NRA vision of Second Amendment rights.

  • “Frustratingly, we're pretty deep in a ditch ... even Obama during the campaign endorsed the NRA's vision of Second Amendment rights.” [14:09]

8. Political Realities and Future Prospects

• Both guests are skeptical of immediate major change, citing a lack of Republican willingness to cross party lines, and even some Democrats wavering only after immense public pressure.
  • Patrick Keefe: “If they haven’t come out in the last week, they’re not going to come out.” [15:27]
  • The sense that gun-rights advocates have withstood the latest intense wave of criticism, making subsequent change even less likely. [15:36]

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Obama’s Determination:

  • “We won’t prevent them all, but that can't be an excuse not to try.” – Barack Obama [01:59]

• The NRA’s Inflexible Dogma:

  • “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.” – Wayne LaPierre [02:24]

• Jill Lepore’s Insight on the NRA’s Logic:

  • “The Second Amendment grants us the right to bear arms, according to the nra, to protect ourselves from the tyranny of a police state, that we, in order to protect ourselves, from armed citizens.” [04:34]

• Keefe on NRA’s Paradox:

  • “The more embattled the NRA appears to its own membership, the more successful it becomes as an organization.” [05:45]

• Skepticism About Legislative Change:

  • “If they haven’t come out in the last week, they’re not going to come out.” – Patrick Keefe [15:27]

Important Timestamps

• 01:14 – Introduction and context of the recent shootings
• 01:59 – Obama’s remarks on gun violence
• 02:24 – Wayne LaPierre’s press conference and NRA position
• 03:19 – Jill Lepore on the NRA’s traditional media strategy
• 04:34 – The “National School Shield Program” explanation
• 05:45 – Keefe on the paradox of NRA’s power
• 08:00–09:49 – Lepore on the history and transformation of the NRA
• 10:52 – Debate over efficacy of armed guards
• 12:17–14:07 – Possible gun control measures discussed
• 15:27 – Keefe on the lack of Republican support for change

Tone and Language

The conversation is measured, analytical, and reflective, combining historical insight with current political analysis. Lepore and Keefe speak with authoritative knowledge and some frustration about the challenges of effecting policy change. Wickenden maintains a focused, journalistic tone, steering the dialogue to key issues and asking pointed questions.

Summary Takeaway

The episode underscores both the entrenched power of the NRA and the formidable challenges of achieving gun control reform in the United States, especially after Sandy Hook. While public outrage and momentum for change spike after tragedies, the NRA’s deep organizational roots, ability to harness fear, and maintain a loyal base often stall or reverse potential progress. The path forward, according to the panel, would require not only public will but significant political coordination crossing party lines—a prospect viewed with cautious skepticism in the current climate.