Podcast Summary:

The Political Scene | The New Yorker
Episode: Jon Lee Anderson Visits Manuel Noriega in Prison
Date: June 19, 2017
Host: Dorothy Wickenden
Guest: Jon Lee Anderson

Overview

This episode dives deep into the life, legacy, and complex political identity of Manuel Noriega, Panama’s notorious former dictator, CIA informant, and convicted drug trafficker, who died in 2017. New Yorker staff writer Jon Lee Anderson discusses his rare 2015 prison interview with Noriega, recounts the dictator’s rise and fall, unpacks his relationships with the U.S. and the CIA, and reflects on the broader implications for American foreign policy in Latin America.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Forgotten Strongman

• Noriega’s Diminished Relevance:
  • Many listeners may have forgotten Noriega, who faded from public view after his 1989 ouster and conviction (01:43).
  • Anderson argues that Noriega is a “figure we shouldn’t forget about so quickly” due to his significance in Latin American political history (02:21).

Noriega’s Rise to Power

• Background and Ascent:
  • Noriega rose from humble origins through Panama’s National Guard, serving under General Torrijos (05:11).
  • Upon Torrijos’s mysterious death, Noriega became de facto leader; Anderson recalls his intimidating presence, likening him to a “shark” (05:11, 06:18).
• Quote:
  • “Noriega had this shark-like ability to look at you sideways... like a shark passing you in the water.”
    — Jon Lee Anderson (05:54)

The U.S. & Noriega: Allies and Adversaries

• CIA Ties and Shifting Loyalties:
  • Noriega operated in a “netherworld” where “strategic interests collide with the real world.” Described as a double or triple agent for the U.S. and Cuba, yet was always his own man (04:24).
  • He denied being a direct CIA agent, claiming his Torrijos instructed him to develop the relationship to keep the CIA at bay (07:56–08:18).
  • Noriega played a critical role as a U.S. asset during the Cold War, especially in supporting anti-communist operations in the region (08:42).
• Quote:
  • “He was our man, but wasn’t our man. He was also Cuba’s man, but wasn’t their man.”
    — Jon Lee Anderson (04:33)

Drugs, Arms, and the Iran-Contra Connection

• Noriega’s Underworld Operations:
  • Connected to the Iran-Contra affair; Panama was a hub for arms going to U.S.-backed guerrilla fronts (08:47).
  • Anderson directly questioned Noriega about drug trafficking allegations; Noriega denied personal involvement but admitted the U.S. asked him to let money be laundered in Panamanian banks for tracking purposes (10:21).
• Quote:
  • “The gringos, the Americans, did ask me to let the narcos launder their money in Panama’s banks so that they could follow the money. And I let them do that.”
    — Manuel Noriega (via Anderson, 10:32)

Political Violence and the Spadafora Murder

• Hugo Spadafora's Death:
  • Spadafora, a charismatic anti-Noriega figure, was brutally murdered after attempting to expose Noriega’s crimes (11:48).
  • Anderson had previously spent hours interviewing Spadafora. The violence was shocking even for the region (12:34).
• Noriega’s Denial:
  • Noriega claimed he was in London at the time of the murder, but Anderson found the denial unconvincing (13:29).
• Quote:
  • “That was the one time in our interview… I felt that he was just lying through his teeth.”
    — Jon Lee Anderson (13:41)

The Collapse and U.S. Invasion

• Downfall and Invasion:
  • After years of being “Washington’s man,” growing domestic opposition and an incident where American soldiers were killed led to the 1989 U.S. invasion (14:00–15:20).
  • Noriega’s bravado turned to regret; he expressed that “time has taught me to negotiate” (16:01).

Reflections on U.S. Foreign Policy

• Lessons (Not) Learned:
  • The invasion of Panama became a footnote amidst larger global events, such as the First Gulf War and the collapse of the Soviet Union (16:35).
  • Anderson questions whether the U.S. learned anything from these interventions.

The Man Behind the Strongman

• Human Moments:
  • Anderson’s final question in prison was about the teddy bears on Noriega’s wall—symbols of his paratrooper past and ties to American military ritual (17:22).
  • Noriega expressed little long-term resentment towards the U.S., viewing the actions as “everyone doing their job” (17:45).
• Quote:
  • “He told me he wasn’t really resentful of the Americans. He kind of said, you know, everybody did their job. They did what they had to do.”
    — Jon Lee Anderson (17:52)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You hear his laugh, right? There were these teddy bears tacked to the wall in the room, and it was the most bizarre thing. Here was Manuel Noriega, the evil guy, and there were these teddy bears.”
  — Jon Lee Anderson (17:23)

• On Noriega's personality:
  “When he was in power, he was pretty thuggish. But...he existed in that netherworld where, you know, strategic interests collide with the real world.”
  — Jon Lee Anderson (04:24)

Important Timestamps

• 01:16: Introduction to Jon Lee Anderson and Noriega’s death
• 02:21: Anderson’s rationale for why Noriega still matters
• 03:13–04:07: Anderson describes how he secured the prison interview
• 05:11: Noriega’s early life and rise through Panama’s military
• 07:56: Noriega’s CIA relationship (direct quote from interview)
• 10:21–10:44: Noriega’s denial and partial admission on drug money laundering
• 11:48–12:34: The murder of Hugo Spadafora—political violence
• 13:29–13:41: Anderson’s assessment of Noriega’s unconvincing denials
• 14:00–15:10: Lead-up to the U.S. invasion, class conflict, Dignity Battalions
• 16:01: Noriega’s regrets and what he’d do differently
• 16:35–17:19: Lessons (un)learned from U.S. intervention in Panama
• 17:22–17:52: The teddy bear anecdote and Noriega’s attitude towards the U.S.

Conclusion

Jon Lee Anderson offers an unvarnished, nuanced portrait of Manuel Noriega—both the feared strongman and the complex, contradictory person shaped by decades of covert alliances, betrayal, and the realpolitik of Cold War Latin America. By weaving personal anecdotes, archival research, and exclusive interview material, the episode illuminates how Noriega's story is entwined with broader U.S. foreign policy failures and the murky world of international espionage and drug trade.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the unintended consequences of American interventionism, the psychology of power, and the forgotten histories that continue to reverberate through the present.