Kirsten Gillibrand: Donald Trump’s “Kryptonite”?

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Kirsten Gillibrand: Donald Trump’s 'Kryptonite'?"

Podcast: The Political Scene | The New Yorker
Host: David Remnick
Guest: Senator Kirsten Gillibrand
Date: May 6, 2019
Duration: ~15 minutes (main content)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, David Remnick interviews Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, a Democratic presidential candidate in the 2020 race. The conversation delves into Gillibrand’s policy positions, her approach to the political challenges of the Trump era, her stance on impeachment, her record on bipartisan legislation, her leadership in the #MeToo movement, and her argument for why she would be a uniquely effective opponent against Donald Trump.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Handling of the Mueller Report and Attorney General Barr

Timestamp: 03:15 – 04:32

• Gillibrand criticizes Attorney General Barr’s handling of the Mueller Report, arguing that Barr “intentionally misled the public” regarding the report’s conclusions and should resign.
  • “The way Attorney General Barr has handled himself...I think he himself acted inappropriately and I actually don't see how he can lead the department. And I believe he should resign.” (Gillibrand, 04:13)
• She asserts that Barr issued a misleading summary, reframed the report publicly, and delivered an overly redacted report.
• Gillibrand emphasizes the need for transparency and congressional hearings so the American people can fully understand the Mueller Report’s findings.

2. The Case for Impeachment

Timestamp: 04:39 – 06:13

• Gillibrand supports a process-driven approach to impeachment, not rushing to a judgment without public understanding:
  • “I'm not against impeachment. I just believe there should be a process.” (Gillibrand, 04:39)
• She reflects that while Washington is focused on the Mueller Report, most Americans are more concerned with political corruption and special interests controlling policy.
• Highlights her push for publicly funded elections to address deep-rooted corruption beyond just Trump.

3. Connecting with Obama–Trump Voters

Timestamp: 06:13 – 07:53

• Gillibrand discusses her success in winning back Trump-leaning counties in New York by listening to voters’ concerns and holding town halls:
  • “I just won back 18 counties in New York that Trump won. I won it back by going to all 62 counties and doing 18 town halls. I didn't spend money on television. I just listened and actually responded.” (Gillibrand, 06:32)
• Voters prioritize healthcare, education, and underemployment.
• She advocates for job training and apprenticeship programs tailored to regional economies through community colleges.

4. Bipartisanship in the Senate

Timestamp: 07:53 – 09:23

• Despite Senate gridlock, especially under Mitch McConnell, Gillibrand claims success in passing 18 bills last Congress by finding common ground with Republicans:
  • “Getting a Republican member of Congress to help you with rural broadband isn't that hard. That's something that helps lots of states that have rural areas.” (Gillibrand, 08:07)
• Points to success with “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” repeal and the 9/11 Health Bill as examples of building broad, principled coalitions.

5. The #MeToo Movement, Joe Biden, and Women in Politics

Timestamp: 09:23 – 12:38

• Gillibrand became a national figure through her leadership on sexual assault and harassment.
• On Al Franken, she reiterates her call for his resignation and notes enduring criticism from some Democrats.
• Asked about Joe Biden, she says his past behavior is not disqualifying but must be addressed directly:
  • “I don't think it's disqualifying, but it's certainly something he's going to have to talk about. Women are going to want to ask him how he feels about this, and that's his job.” (Gillibrand, 09:54)
  • She admits not being satisfied with Biden’s explanations thus far (10:26).
• Gillibrand offers a broad perspective on the women’s movement, crediting it as a force remaking Democratic politics and making activism on a range of issues (from #MeToo to Black Lives Matter) more central than ever:
  • “If you don't understand what's actually happening and you are dismissing the voices and the views and the values of women, you will not catch fire in this election and you will not be our nominee.” (Gillibrand, 11:23)

6. Taking on Donald Trump Directly

Timestamp: 12:38 – 14:49

• Remnick asks how Gillibrand would handle Trump’s aggressive debate style.
• Gillibrand says Trump’s “Achilles heel is a mother with young children” championing issues families care about. She frames herself as Trump’s “kryptonite,” a woman who stands her ground:
  • “I think his kryptonite is a woman who stands up for what she believes in and doesn't back down. I don't believe he will be effective against me because I will dismiss him in the way I would anybody who is acting like a child would...” (Gillibrand, 13:36)
• She contrasts engaging constructively with voters’ real concerns—and refusing to brawl with Trump on his terms:
  • “You don't punch a bully in the face. It actually doesn't work. You know, if you want to get in a fight with a pig and you want to get into the mud with a pig, the pig has fun and you get dirty and no one looks good.” (Gillibrand, 14:40)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Attorney General Barr: “I don't think you can have an Attorney General who has purposely misled Congress.” (Gillibrand, 04:14)
• On Political Reform: “The problem is bigger than just the allegations against President Trump for obstruction of justice. The problem is deep seated. It's been in place for a very long time. And we need transparency and accountability that takes on the entire political infrastructure.” (Gillibrand, 05:12)
• On Debate with Trump: “If he starts to name call or he starts to glower over me in a debate, I will say, please go back to your place. Your spot is over there. It's my turn to talk now. And you will wait your turn, because that's how I would handle an irreverent child who is being a bully.” (Gillibrand, 13:54)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:15: Gillibrand’s response to Barr and the Mueller Report
• 04:39: View on impeachment process
• 06:13: Connecting with Obama–Trump voters
• 07:53: Bipartisanship and legislative success
• 09:23: The #MeToo movement, Al Franken, and Joe Biden
• 12:38: How to debate and defeat Donald Trump

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Tone and Style

Senator Gillibrand’s tone is assertive yet measured—critical when addressing Trump and Barr, pragmatic when discussing bipartisanship and legislative strategy, and passionate when talking about women’s activism and grassroots engagement. She uses personal anecdotes and direct language to make the case for her leadership style and candidacy.

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Conclusion

This compact yet wide-ranging interview presents Senator Gillibrand’s rationale for her presidential run: a steadfast focus on structural reforms, a readiness to confront entrenched interests, a history of bipartisan legislative accomplishment, and a belief that her resilience and advocacy—especially as a woman—make her a singularly effective challenger to President Trump. The episode is essential listening for those interested in the Democratic primary field, electoral strategy, and the intersection of gender, politics, and power in America.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

And I want to thank everyone that's gathered here today. Thank you for being here.

[C]

Senator Kirsten Gillibrand launched her presidential campaign outside the Trump Hotel in Manhattan, attacking the president in front of one of his gold lettered buildings. It's not a bad way to get some attention.

[B]

Our president is a coward and that is not what we deserve. That is not what you deserve.

[C]

Gillibrand is not so well known outside of New York. She represented a congressional district upstate, and she came to the Senate in 2009, filling Hillary Clinton's former seat. Ever since, she's been fierce on the cause of sexual assault and harassment and a champion of the MeToo movement. She was one of the first to call on Senator Al Franken to step down, and some in her party, she says, are still absolutely furious with her over it. In other ways, Gillibrand's policies have, let's say evolved her A rating from the NRA some years back, is now a solid F. And, and like other centrist Democrats in the race, she's taking pains to emphasize her support for progressive policies like Medicare for all. I reached Kirsten Gillibrand in Washington last week. Senator, we now know that Robert Mueller was not exactly thrilled by the handling of his report by the Attorney General. And he felt that he had been, if we can summarize it, distorted at best. What do you feel about it and how do you now feel about the case for impeachment?

[B]

Well, I am deeply concerned and I've been concerned with how Attorney General Barr handled the Mueller report overall. You have to remember the first thing he did that he shouldn't have done is issue the four page summary. And that's what Mueller responded to, saying, your summary did not represent our conclusions. The second thing that Barr did was he held that press conference where he again reframed what the Mueller report said. And then third, he then produced finally the Mueller report in a highly redacted form. So I think the way Attorney General Barr has handled himself, now that we have this letter that Mueller sent to Barr and we have Barr's testimony after he received that letter saying, oh, he didn't know what Mueller thought of his summary, I think he himself acted inappropriately and I actually don't see how he can lead the department. And I believe he should resign.

[C]

You believe he should resign?

[B]

I do. I think he has intentionally misled the public. And for him to go to Congress and say, I don't know what Mueller thinks of my summary I think is an outright lie. I don't think you can have an Attorney General who has purposely misled Congress.

[D]

Now, how is this making you feel about impeachment in general? Because you've cut a fine line so far.

[B]

I'm not against impeachment. I just believe there should be a process. And I don't think the American people have had an opportunity to read the Mueller report. I think the facts that are in that report need to be elucidated through hearings so that the American people can follow along and fully understand what facts Mueller found and what this President actually did that would support an obstruction of justice indictment or an obstruction of justice based impeachment proceeding. But I can tell you I have been traveling across the country and people are not asking about the Mueller report. They believe that Washington is broken. They believe there's enormous political corruption. They think that the powerful decide everything in Washington and the moneyed interests decide everything. They believe the special Interests get their way no matter what. They look at the Koch brothers, they see that they can spend $300 million in an election just for a lower tax rate and they get what they pay for. And so the truth is I'm running on publicly funded elections because the problem is bigger than just the allegations against President Trump for obstruction of justice. The problem is deep seated. It's been in place for a very long time. And we need transparency and accountability that takes on the entire political infrastructure. That's why I issued legislation yesterday to talk about how we have publicly funded elections, how we actually get money out of politics and restore the power to the hands of the people.

[D]

Senator, millions of voters who had voted for Barack Obama, then turned around and voted for Donald Trump. How do you connect with those people and what is your sense as somebody from upstate New York, where a lot of those voters were, why did they do that and how can they be brought back in?

[B]

Easily? And they are brought back in by listening and understanding their concerns. I just won back 18 counties in New York that Trump won. I won it back by going to all 62 counties and doing 18 town halls. I didn't spend money on television. I just listened and actually responded. By helping those communities, what they're worried about is health care. They are so worried that their children will not have access to the medicine they need or the life saving care they need or the treatment they need because some insurance company doesn't want to cover them because they have a pre existing condition. They're worried about the education system. They are fearful that their local public school is crumbling, doesn't have the support that they need, and isn't going to give a chance to their kid to have any part of the American dream. They're worried about themselves. Our unemployment rate may well be 4%, but I can tell you the underemployment rate is skyrocketing. People do not make enough money to meet the needs of their families, period. And that's why I'm running on dealing with underemployment and unemployment with job training, working with the employers to develop the coursework and apprenticeship programs, using the community colleges and state schools to actually train for the jobs in your region that pay higher than what you're earning right now.

[D]

Is there a world in which all this legislation that you're talking about can get through a Congress that is really characterized by, in the Senate, Mitch McConnell.

[B]

Yes. So despite Mitch McConnell, I passed 18 bills in the last Congress. The way I did that was I found common ground with Republican Colleagues and built from there. Getting a Republican member of Congress to help you with rural broadband isn't that hard. That's something that helps lots of states that have rural areas. I passed a piece of legislation for Made in America Manufacturing. I could find Republicans who wanted to do that with me. And so, you know, a lot of people in our party, they're just, they're at the edges, they go to their corners. And that doesn't work. You need to find the common ground. And it doesn't mean compromising. It means creating a vision that's bold and robust that you can find people to sign onto. When we repealed don't ask, don't Tell, we didn't say, well, only some people in the gay community are going to be protected. We said, no. This is about making sure the men and women who serve in our country can actually serve and not be denied based on who they love. That if they're willing to die for this country, why would you make it impossible? And the argument that worked for my Republican colleagues might well have been different. It was, why would you lose 1000 people in mission critical areas? Why would you deny the ability of people to serve based on who they love?

[D]

Senator, you came to prominence in no small measure because of your vocal support for what became the MeToo movement. And you were very critical of Al Franken. And you were the first to come forward and say that he should resign. Now you are in a presidential race and you are facing, among others, Joe Biden. And a lot of women have come forward and said that he made them feel uncomfortable. Is Joe Biden's past behavior disqualifying, in your view?

[B]

I don't think it's disqualifying, but it's certainly something he's going to have to talk about. Women are going to want to ask him how he feels about this, and that's his job. My job is to talk about my vision for this country, how I'm going to pass a Green New Deal, how I'm going to pass Medicare for all, how I'm going to pass the job training more people into the middle.

[D]

Moving to another subject, which is, I understand, but do you find his explanations and his comments about this satisfying to you?

[B]

I personally don't.

[D]

And so do you think that he's qualified to be a presidential candidate in light of that?

[B]

I believe he is qualified, but I also believe this is something he's going to have to talk about. The MeToo movement is part of a much broader conversation. MeToo was about sexual harassment and sexual Assault specifically started after President Trump got elected was a women's movement. Across the globe, women started marching to be heard, to be, to have the ability to share their truth, whatever it was. What was so powerful about the march was that women marched on all issues they cared about. Their signs could have said Black Lives Matter, or women's reproductive freedom, or clean air and clean water, or LGBTQ equality. It didn't matter. It just mattered that they wanted to be heard and that activism has not stopped. And so if you don't understand what's actually happening and you are dismissing the voices and the views and the values of women, you will not catch fire in this election and you will not be our nominee. And you are not the best person to take on President Trump. I believe I'm the best person to take on President Trump because I do take on the fights no one else will take on. And not only that, I'm successful in those fights. I actually get things done. I move the needle forward on women's rights, on gay rights, on clean air and clean, clean water, on manufacturing, on jobs, on the economy. And I have a track record of doing really bold things on a bipartisan basis, things that were left for dead that no one could pass. I was able to move the needle. 911 health bill sat dormant for seven years. No one had moved it. It had 20 hearings in the House and was going nowhere. It had never been introduced in the Senate, not even a hearing. I took that bill from 0 to 100 within one term as a freshman senator. That means you need to reach a cr. You need to find the common ground. You need to lift up people's voices who aren't being heard, and you need to fight for them. Whether you're an inner city or a rural red area, they are suffering, and they need someone to care.

[D]

You're in a complicated race. 20 people are in this race of all kinds, which is in some ways an incredibly healthy thing for the Democratic Party. And it's unpredictable as well. Well, let's skip to the part where you're the nominee and you're facing Donald Trump in a race and on a debate stage and all the rest. He has proved himself to be willing to say and do practically anything about his opponent. And oftentimes it's incredibly effective. Like it or not, how do you oppose that? How do you run against that? How much do you deflect, and how much do you take on directly?

[B]

So my story is a bit different than other people who are running. My first two opponents were in a 2 to 1 Republican district who demeaned me and name called me and tried to dismiss me. And not only did it make my candidacy relevant, but it made a lot of people deeply offended. And they wanted to know who I was and why was I running and why is he hitting her that way? Why is he saying those things about her? I don't think it worked. I believe that for President Trump, his Achilles heel is a mother with young children who's running on issues that people care about and that families care about. I think his kryptonite is a woman who stands up for what she believes in and doesn't back down. I don't believe he will be effective against me because I will dismiss him in the way I would. Anybody who is acting like a child would acting like a child who is spoiled and wants their way no matter what. And if he starts to name call or he starts to glower over me in a debate, I will say, please go back to your place. Your spot is over there. It's my turn to talk now. And you will wait your turn, because that's how I would handle an irreverent child who is being a bully. Like, you don't punch a bully in the face. It actually doesn't work. You know, if you want to get in a fight with a pig and you want to get into the mud with a pig, the pig has fun and you get dirty and no one looks good.

[D]

And, Senator, I'm grateful for your time and I wish you well on the campaign trail. Thank you so much.

[B]

Oh, God bless. Take care.

[D]

Take care.

[C]

Senator Kirsten Gillibrand. I spoke with her last week.

[B]

America is changing and so is the world.

[D]

But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

[B]

I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. i'm.

[D]

Tristan Redman in London, and this is the Global Story.

[B]

Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.

[D]

Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

[B]

From. PRX.