The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Episode: Lena Waithe on Police Violence and “Queen & Slim”
Date: November 18, 2019
Host: Jelani Cobb

Overview

This episode features a deeply insightful conversation between The New Yorker’s staff writer Jelani Cobb and celebrated writer, producer, and performer Lena Waithe. The discussion centers on Waithe's new film "Queen & Slim," a searing narrative about two black characters whose lives are upended after a confrontation with police leads to an officer’s death. Together, Cobb and Waithe explore the film’s political undertones, its connection to contemporary issues of police violence, the artistic choices behind its storytelling, and its resonance with Waithe’s own life and career.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Storytelling & Artistic Roots

(02:56–06:36)

• Waithe’s Artistic Philosophy: Lena Waithe discusses how personal experience shapes her writing and characters, likening storytelling to therapy. “I can't not. You know, yes, I'm the vessel, but because I am, some of me is gonna get in there.” (03:04, Lena Waithe)
• Influence of Classic Television: Waithe grew up watching a range of TV alongside her grandmother, noting the significance of both contemporary and older sitcoms on her craft. Shows like "Good Times," "All in the Family," "The Cosby Show," and "Mary Tyler Moore" were formative, providing “a lifelong study in story and character.” (05:31, Lena Waithe)
• Studying the Craft: She recalls dissecting television scripts in high school, driven by a fascination with the mechanics of storytelling and a desire to understand “why they were written the way they were written.” (06:17, Lena Waithe)

2. Genesis of "Queen & Slim"

(06:36–10:46)

• Story Pitch: The initial idea came from a party conversation with James Fry, centering on a black couple whose encounter with police turns deadly. Waithe instantly recognized its potential and chose to run with it, identifying a narrative that felt urgent and reflective of black American experiences.
• Crafting the Opening: She details the collaborative process in refining the script, especially the decision to begin with a date rather than a traumatic incident, allowing the audience to gradually peel back the characters’ layers.
• Character Construction: Waithe intentionally withholds the characters’ names until the end—mirroring how the names of black victims of police violence often become publicly known only after tragedy.
  • “I didn't want to reveal their names until they were killed, because... that's how I came to know their names. So that was a thing that I purposefully wanted to do.” (10:06, Lena Waithe)

3. Racial Politics & Cinematic Intentions

(10:46–14:46)

• Politics in Storytelling: Cobb compares the film to “Bonnie and Clyde,” but Waithe draws a sharper distinction: “It instantly becomes political. It instantly becomes important. It instantly becomes revolutionary because of, literally, the color of their skin.” (11:02, Lena Waithe)
• Cultural Weight: Waithe and Cobb discuss how, for many black Americans, the police embody more than law enforcement—they are symbols of historical and systemic oppression.
  • “They represent Jim Crow. They represent... just injustice. They represent death to us, a lot of us.” (11:37, Lena Waithe)
• Complexity of Violence: There wasn’t an intent to frame the main characters as heroes or villains, but rather as ordinary people thrust into survival mode by structural violence. “No one is innocent, no one is guilty. Everyone is just trying to survive.” (12:34, Lena Waithe)
• Real-world Parallels: The film’s release was coincident with high-profile police shootings, intensifying its relevance—a fact Waithe approached with sorrow, not opportunism.
  • “I do not want that kind of publicity for the film. I do not. Because I am like every other black person. I am traumatized every time these stories come out.” (14:03, Lena Waithe)

4. Community, Uplift, and Internal Conflict

(14:46–18:14)

• Black Community as Haven: In one standout scene, Queen and Slim receive safe harbor at a bar frequented by black patrons, highlighting themes of trust, unity, and the creation of needed heroes.
  • Memorable moment: The bartender offers solidarity: “Don’t worry, you’re safe here.” (16:08, Waithe paraphrasing character)
• Diversity of Black Opinion: Waithe is careful to include what she calls “honest and grounded” portrayals of generational conflict within the black community, acknowledging both those who view the protagonists as heroes and others who judge them more harshly.
  • “I made sure that all those voices were heard in a way that felt honest and grounded and true.” (17:36, Lena Waithe)

5. Media, Perception, and Interpretive Lens

(17:44–19:24)

• Viral Violence: Cobb notes how the police shooting in the film, caught on video, acts as a catalyst for everyone who views it, likening the officer to "patient zero" in a wider social epidemic.
  • “The officer is almost like patient zero in an outbreak where his actions cause every single other person... to confront the question of what they stand for.” (17:44, Jelani Cobb)
• Interpretation and Projection: Waithe connects this to contemporary media, reflecting that “we bring our stuff” to each real-world case we see online, and every choice in life affects broader outcomes.

6. Waithe’s Reflections on Success and Creative Reality

(19:24–20:38)

• The Bittersweet Dream: Waithe likens achieving her creative goals to parenthood—exhilarating and devastating, with success only fully grasped through experience.
  • “[Getting your own TV show] is like being beaten to death with your own dream. And it’s true... You can’t wanna be the heavyweight champion of the world and not take some licks. So I’m gonna get hit sometimes, just a matter if I hit back, which I will.” (19:57–20:36, Lena Waithe)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On representation in storytelling:
  “My favorite artists are the ones that you can see them in their work... you see what that person's trauma is because it keeps popping up.” (03:04, Lena Waithe)

• On the deliberate anonymity of the main characters:
  “I purposefully wanted to do [not reveal their names]... you often don't know black people's names unless police kill us.” (10:06, Lena Waithe)

• On community support:
  “These are on the house. Thank you. Don’t worry, you’re safe here.” (16:08, Bar scene, recounted by Waithe)

• On creative achievement:
  “Getting your own TV show is like being beaten to death with your own dream. And it’s true.” (19:57, Lena Waithe)

Key Timestamps

• 02:56 – Waithe on personal experience shaping her writing
• 05:31 – Influence of classic and contemporary television on her craft
• 06:36 – Origin story and collaborative writing of "Queen & Slim"
• 10:06 – Intentional decision to withhold character names
• 11:02 – Racial politics of two black fugitives in America
• 14:03 – Waithe’s reaction to real-life police violence coinciding with the film’s release
• 16:08 – The community-as-sanctuary scene
• 17:44 – Cobb on the shooting’s ripple effect (patient zero analogy)
• 19:57 – Waithe offers a candid metaphor on the price of creative freedom

Conclusion

This episode provides an unflinching look at how Lena Waithe’s personal experiences and identity as a black writer influence her work, particularly in the emotionally charged "Queen & Slim." The conversation underscores the ongoing crisis of police violence, the complexities of black identity and community, and the burdens and triumphs that come with groundbreaking creative achievement. Waithe’s candor and Cobb’s thoughtful prompting make for a conversation that is as insightful as it is urgent—one that resonates deeply in the current cultural and political landscape.