Podcast Summary: Maggie Gyllenhaal on “The Deuce” and #MeToo

The Political Scene | The New Yorker
Host: David Remnick
Guest: Maggie Gyllenhaal
Interviewer: Lauren Collins
Date: August 19, 2019

Episode Overview

In this live conversation from the New Yorker Festival, Maggie Gyllenhaal discusses her multifaceted role as both star and executive producer on HBO’s “The Deuce,” delving into the show’s unflinching portrayal of sexuality, power, and exploitation in the context of the #MeToo movement. The episode also explores the current climate in Hollywood, Gyllenhaal's ambitions as a director, the creative process behind her adaptation of Elena Ferrante’s “The Lost Daughter,” and the evolving solidarity among women in the industry.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Maggie Gyllenhaal’s Creative Influence on “The Deuce”

• Producer’s Perspective: Gyllenhaal describes her hands-on creative role, seeing both early script drafts and rough edits.

  "I see early drafts, early script, and then I also see early cuts." —Maggie Gyllenhaal (02:28)

• Complex Realities on Screen: She recounts advocating for authenticity in a pivotal “Deuce” storyline. For a scene in which Candy is offered money for a sexual favor by a producer, Gyllenhaal pushed against a simplistic resolution.

  "I said, she can't do that. She has to do it ... We've all done things we look back on and think, 'Oh my God, how did I... stay in that meeting or put that shirt on or whatever?' Why does Candy get to be better than us? She's the same." (04:39)

• Feminine Perspective: Gyllenhaal argues for depicting the nuanced, non-linear emotional aftermath for the female character.

  "You have to see the cost to the woman who's done this thing." (07:38)
  "It isn't a linear [experience]." (08:29)

2. Sex, Power, and Realism in Storytelling

• Intertwining with Reality: Gyllenhaal and Collins discuss how “The Deuce” mirrors present-day concerns regarding sex, power dynamics, and exploitation.

  "That is what the show's about ... how little has changed." (09:15)

• Intimacy Coordination: In response to #MeToo, the series introduced intimacy coordinators to foster a safer environment during sex scenes, paralleling protocols for fight choreography.

  "If you're doing a fight scene, there's a fight coordinator. If you have to do sex scenes all day, you need somebody to ask ... 'Are you okay?'" —Lauren Collins (09:24)
  "There's always a stunt coordinator there...but not with sex scenes. And why not?" —Maggie Gyllenhaal (10:50)

• Industry Norms Challenged: Gyllenhaal describes casual industry violations—like mic-ing actors under their clothes—exposing the need for clearer boundaries and consent.

  "You have to open your pants and ... if you're 22 and you've got two lines ... you're like, 'Oh, this is how you do it...' And we were all like, 'Yeah, that's not right.'" (11:09–12:00)

3. #MeToo and Women’s Solidarity in Hollywood

• Female Collaboration: The conversation shifts to the rare solidarity among actresses, sparked by #MeToo and the Time’s Up movement.

  "There's a kind of a thing, I think, where you're like, well, I'm in direct competition with these five people all the time ... And yet there's a kind of a weird thing." (12:59)

• Changing Dynamics: While Gyllenhaal admits competition lingers, she acknowledges growing solidarity.

  "I do think so. Yeah. I do. In general, right? Yeah. And in Hollywood, too." (13:46)

4. Directorial Ambitions and The Lost Daughter

• Inspiration to Direct: Playing Candy catalyzed her confidence to direct. She wrote a letter to the reclusive author Elena Ferrante, securing rights to direct “The Lost Daughter”—on the author’s condition that Gyllenhaal direct herself.

  "You can have the rights, but you have to direct it. I'm only giving the rights to you to direct." (14:54)

• Mentorship and Responsibility: Gyllenhaal shares Ferrante’s words, underscoring the need for women to forge an artistic lineage as rich as their male peers.

  "Women have to contribute to an artistic genealogy of our own that stands up...in terms of intelligent refinement, skill, richness of invention, emotional density to the male tradition." —Elena Ferrante (read by Lauren Collins, 15:32)

• Articulating the Unspoken: Gyllenhaal connects deeply with Ferrante’s raw female characters, expressing the comfort of seeing difficult truths named aloud.

  "This woman is so fucked up. And then I was like, I totally relate to her." (16:27)
  "I'm comforted by hearing it said out loud." (16:35)

5. Vision for Directing

• Creating a Supportive Set: Gyllenhaal draws from her acting career, emphasizing the importance of kindness and respect on set, citing both her character Candy’s approach as a director and her own positive experiences with directors.

  "It's important to feel loved. It's important to feel seen and appreciated and respected and loved." (19:25)

• Future Plans: She’s adapting the screenplay but does not plan to act in it, expressing excitement about mentoring another actress.

  "I'm so interested to observe someone and support someone going through something difficult." (18:41)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Female Characters:

  "Why does Candy get to be better than us? ... She's the same." —Maggie Gyllenhaal (05:18)

• On Non-Linear Experience:

  "It isn't a linear [process]... that's what I'm talking about, about a feminine perspective." —Maggie Gyllenhaal (08:29)

• On Industry Practices:

  "You just pull your shirt up and someone's got their hands up your bra ... and we were all like, yeah, that's not right." —Maggie Gyllenhaal (11:24)

• On Directing 'The Lost Daughter':

  "You can have the rights, but you have to direct it. I'm only giving the rights to you to direct." —Elena Ferrante via Maggie Gyllenhaal (14:54)

• On Artistic Legacy:

  "Women have to contribute to an artistic genealogy of our own that stands up ... to the male tradition." —Elena Ferrante via Lauren Collins (15:32)

• On Acting and Directing:

  "I have so much experience of being directed and what feels good to me and what doesn't ... I'm so interested to observe someone and support someone going through something difficult." —Maggie Gyllenhaal (18:41)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:22] – Gyllenhaal describes her producer's role and creative input.
• [03:44]–[08:29] – Deep dive into the critical scene with Candy, authenticity, and non-linear emotional truth.
• [09:15]–[10:06] – How “The Deuce” connects with current cultural moments and the importance of on-set intimacy coordinators.
• [10:50]–[13:46] – Discussion on casual industry boundary issues and changing female solidarity in Hollywood.
• [14:00]–[16:40] – Gyllenhaal’s journey toward directing, securing Ferrante’s blessing, and her emotional reaction to female mentorship.
• [18:21]–[19:52] – Reflections on acting vs. directing and her desire to support other artists as a director.

Conclusion

This episode offers a candid insider’s look at the intersection of art, power, and gender in premium television and film. Maggie Gyllenhaal’s insights illuminate both her personal journey and the shifting dynamics of the industry in the wake of #MeToo, while her discussion of directing “The Lost Daughter” points to a new wave of female storytelling centered on complexity, solidarity, and authenticity.