The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Episode: Marco Rubio: “Modernizing” Conservatism
Date: June 4, 2018
Host: Susan Glasser
Guest: Senator Marco Rubio

Episode Overview

This episode features a wide-ranging conversation between The New Yorker’s Susan Glasser and Florida Senator Marco Rubio. The focus centers on Rubio’s perspective on the evolving Republican Party in the Trump era, especially around national security and economic policy, his views on the U.S.-China rivalry, election interference, and the internal dynamics of working with President Trump. Rubio also reflects on how conservative policy must adapt — or be "modernized" — to address current realities. The tone is conversational but direct, with Rubio candidly responding to pointed questions about the GOP's future and his own political evolution.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The China Challenge and U.S. Foreign Policy

[02:31 – 07:14]

• Rubio’s Longstanding Focus: Rubio has long been concerned with China’s military expansion and human rights record, but says his understanding has “crystallized” as he observed China’s broader strategy.

  • Quote: “You start putting all the pieces together … and you realize this is much deeper than just a conflict with a country. This is an all out effort to change the world order.” (Marco Rubio, 03:51)

• China as a Great Power Competitor: Rubio sees China as having a detailed, long-term plan to challenge U.S. global leadership, not just economically, but strategically.

  • Quote: “China has a very well crafted plan, a 25, 50 and 100 year plan to recapture what they believe is their rightful role in the world, which is to be its most powerful country.” (Marco Rubio, 05:53)

• Economic vs. Security Framing: Rubio argues that the conversation about China should expand beyond trade and economics, emphasizing how Chinese policy threatens U.S. technological leadership and national security.

2. Trump’s Approach to China and Governance

[04:12 – 05:47]

• On Trump’s Instincts: Rubio believes Trump’s instincts on China are right, that China has taken advantage of the U.S., but notes the administration is characterized by public and internal debate.

  • Quote: “His instincts on China are right ... there's nothing final yet. I mean, ... he encourages sort of a diversity of opinions and a vibrant debate publicly.” (Marco Rubio, 04:34)

• The Internal White House Debate: Rubio positions himself as one voice among many lobbying for a tougher stance on China.

3. Comparing China and Russia: Election Interference

[07:17 – 09:45]

• Different Threats: Rubio delineates between Russia’s attempts to disrupt U.S. democracy and China’s more systemic, long-term challenge.

• On 2016 Russian Interference: Rubio pushes back against claims that Russian hacking changed the outcome of the 2016 election, aligning with official intelligence assessments.

  • Quote: “Suffice it to say that I don't believe, I personally don't believe. I've seen no evidence that the outcome of the election would have been different as a result.” (Marco Rubio, 07:52)
  • Acknowledges Putin’s clear preference for Trump over Clinton, but distinguishes that from claims of collusion or actual election impact.

• Goal of Russian Interference: Emphasizes that Putin’s main goal was to sow chaos and undermine American political authority.

  • Quote: “His real goal ... was to sow chaos in American democracy because that way he can turn around and say, you have no right to lecture us on our internal processes.” (Marco Rubio, 09:30)

4. GOP Post-Trump: Modernizing Conservatism

[11:10 – 13:41]

• Learning from the 2016 Campaign: Rubio discusses how campaigning changed his thinking, leading to a greater recognition of the “human cost” of economic policies like free trade.

  • Quote: “What perhaps people like me have not done enough of in the past is recognize ... the 30 [jobs] it destroyed are not machines or statistics. They're human beings with families.” (Marco Rubio, 12:15)

• Reform vs. Modernization: Rubio prefers “modernizing” to “reform,” describing it as software updates that respond to real-world challenges.

  • Quote: “We're modernizing and trying to ... just like every couple weeks I get an update that there's a software update on my phone ... I think we have to update it because there’s new ideas.” (Marco Rubio, 13:41)

5. Working with President Trump

[13:56 – 16:19]

• Personal Relationship: Says there was never a true personal problem, even at the campaign’s nastiest (“Little Marco” incidents).

  • Boxing Analogy: “I've never heard a boxer after a match asked, 'hey, were you upset when he punched you in the face in the third round?' ... It was a boxing match.” (Marco Rubio, 14:29)

• Approach to Cooperation & Dissent: Rubio explains his philosophy of working with the President, trying to influence policy, and being ready to publicly disagree and vote against Trump when warranted.

  • Quote: “When I disagree with him, I've spoken about why I disagree and I've tried to change his mind … if I still can't convince him, I'll vote against it.” (Marco Rubio, 15:49)

6. Future Political Plans and Party Critique

[16:19 – 20:51]

• 2020 and Beyond: Rubio avoids ruling out another presidential run, citing personal and political factors, but underscores his current focus on the Senate.

  • Quote: “I'm just not in a position to honestly tell you how I'm going to feel in four and a half years. I don't know. ... I don't say no.” (Marco Rubio, 16:44)

• Responding to Criticism of Congressional Compliance: Reacts to Jeff Flake’s speech that criticized Congress for being “utterly supine” in face of Trump, distinguishing between constant criticism and pragmatic engagement.

• On Outrage Cycles and Media: Rubio argues that outrage—by the media and the opposition—feeds into Trump’s strategy.

  • Quote: “Living in New York all his life, he's mastered how to do that to great advantage.” (Marco Rubio, 18:42)

7. Principles of Engagement

[20:22 – 21:10]

• Rubio’s Stance: Lays out a three-pronged approach: work with Trump where possible, attempt to influence when they disagree, and oppose when necessary.

  • Quote: “If we agree, let's work together ... If we don't agree, let me try to influence it, and if you still go forward, then I'll oppose it.” (Marco Rubio, 20:49)

• Bridging Differences: Emphasizes the need for dialogue, compromise, and example-setting to make American governance work.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On China’s Strategy:
  “When you put it all together, suddenly the light bulb goes off and you realize this is much deeper than just a conflict with a country. This is an all out effort to change the world order.”
  — Marco Rubio (03:51)

• On Learning from Political Campaigns:
  “If you spend a year of your life traveling the country, ... and it doesn't impact your thinking in any way, then you're not alive.”
  — Marco Rubio (11:25)

• On Reforming Conservatism:
  “We're modernizing and trying to, you know, just like every couple weeks I get an update that there's a software update on my phone that I should download. I think we have to update it because there's new ideas.”
  — Marco Rubio (13:41)

• On Working with Trump:
  “My job is to serve in the Senate and to work with him to achieve good things for Florida and for the country. And that's what I've tried to do. And when I disagree with him, I've spoken about why I disagree and I've tried to change his mind.”
  — Marco Rubio (15:04)

• On Political Outrage:
  “You wake up every morning and the news is always about what can people be outraged by today. And the president understands that, by the way, which is why he dominates every news cycle.”
  — Marco Rubio (18:27)

Major Segment Timestamps

• China’s global strategy: [02:31 – 07:14]
• Trump’s instincts and policy debates: [04:12 – 05:47]
• Russian interference and intelligence: [07:17 – 09:45]
• Reflections on the GOP post-Trump: [11:10 – 13:41]
• Working with Trump: [13:56 – 16:19]
• Future plans and party criticism: [16:19 – 20:51]
• Rubio’s engagement philosophy: [20:22 – 21:10]

Conclusion

The episode offers a clear window into Marco Rubio’s thinking as he seeks to “modernize” conservatism in real time. He stresses the need for the GOP to adapt its long-standing principles to new realities, especially in an era of global competition and political disruption. Rubio positions himself as both a pragmatist and a principled actor, willing to challenge the president and his party when necessary, but also eager to find areas for cooperation. The conversation is notable for its candor, humility, and the depth of insight into the modern conservative project and U.S. political life.