The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Episode: Remembering Dianne Feinstein, and Biden Clashes With The Hard Right

Date: September 29, 2023
Panel: Evan Osnos (host), Susan Glasser, Jane Mayer

Overview

This episode opens with the breaking news of Senator Dianne Feinstein’s death, prompting reflections on her trailblazing career and the era she represents. The conversation then pivots to the mounting partisan crises in Washington, President Biden's positioning against the rightmost faction of the GOP, the significance of his recent Arizona speech, and his solidarity with striking auto workers. The panel also analyzes the looming government shutdown, the dysfunction in the House, and the deeper meanings of institutional strength vs. weakness in American democracy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

I. The Legacy of Dianne Feinstein

(01:15 – 05:16)

• Significance of her passing: The panelists immediately acknowledge Dianne Feinstein’s death and the overshadowing of her significant career by the circumstances of her exit.

  • Jane Mayer: “She had an incredible run and was just a major figure and a breakthrough as a woman in the Senate... particularly [on] gun control [and] against torture." (01:22)

• Changing eras in politics:

  • Susan Glasser: “The age when senators were household names across the country is fading and we're in this different, much more contentious era of politics.” (02:03)

• Career-defining moments: Her leadership began during the traumatic 1978 assassination of San Francisco Mayor Moscone and Harvey Milk, and she later became a prominent voice on CIA torture.

  • Jane Mayer: Quoting Feinstein: “‘History will judge us by our commitment to a just society governed by law... and the willingness to face an ugly truth and say, never again.’” (03:14)
  • Jane Mayer: Recounts personal conversation with Feinstein on the risks of exposing CIA programs, underscoring her commitment to transparency despite difficulties.

• Age and the “gerontocracy” issue: The panel openly discusses whether Feinstein, and by extension others, may have stayed in office too long.

  • Jane Mayer: “The other issue… is this age issue... staying too long, maybe. And the gerontocracy issue, look, it's creating chaos.” (04:55)

II. Biden’s Clash With the Hard Right & The Future of Democracy

(05:51 – 19:01)

Biden’s Arizona Speech: Framing the Threat

• Biden’s warning: Biden lays out the "MAGA threat" as existential for U.S. democracy.

  • President Biden (clip): “Seizing power, concentrating power, attempting to abuse power... weaponizing against the very soul of who we are as Americans. This MAGA threat is a threat to the brick and mortar of our democratic institutions…” (06:44)

• Glasser's Analysis: Biden’s warnings have intensified as the challenge Trump poses “to our system, to the democracy itself, has actually only escalated over the years rather than diminished.” (07:45) She notes a recent “normal politician” phase, attempting to highlight Bidenomics, has not resonated with Americans facing persistent economic insecurities.

• Media and Focus:

  • Jane Mayer: “I'm worried about one thing... He's not even on the front page with this speech. These issues are the most important issues in front of the country right now... yet it's really hard to frame it and hard to get people's attention for it.” (09:34)

• Can “defending democracy” win again?

  • Jane Mayer: “It worked for Biden last time... in the 2022 midterm elections... Most of those [MAGA-oriented] candidates lost. But whether this can save Biden in this election is really... a question.” (10:26)

The GOP’s Trumpification & Nostalgia

• Republican Party capture: Glasser points to the diminishing non-Trumpist segment within the party: “About... 20, 25% of the Republican Party primary electorate... is not Trumpist. And, you know, that's pretty small.” (12:59)

• Cindy McCain & Arizona: The symbolism of Biden in Arizona, standing with Cindy McCain, reflects a bygone era of mutual respect across party lines.

  • Jane Mayer: Recalls John McCain at a 2008 rally correcting a woman attacking Obama: “He’s a decent family man, citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with... And that's what this campaign is all about.” (14:08)
  • Arizona is a critical battleground where election denialism remains rife, emphasizing overriding themes of legitimacy and democracy.

• McCain vs. Trump party: The transition from McCain-style politics to Trumpism is underscored by references to past moments where Trump's provocations (such as disparaging POWs) were once thought to be political death sentences, but instead marked the rise of MAGA dominance.

  • Evan Osnos: “That was a moment... The assumption was this will drive Donald Trump out of politics... Not only did he survive, he... dominated the party. And I think that was the moment... when the whole sort of MAGA idea began to ascend..." (16:44)

• Ideology’s irrelevance: Instead of governing on principle or ideology, politics is now dominated by existential narratives and tribal loyalty.

  • Susan Glasser: “Ideology is dead... This incredible kind of almost existential threat came into American politics, and it sort of subverted what we might call the more normal differences of American politics.” (19:01)

III. Labor, Biden & Populist Symbolism

(19:19 – 26:37)

• Biden’s UAW picket line appearance: First time ever for a sitting president—serving both practical (swing-state Michigan) and symbolic (pro-labor, populist) objectives.

  • Jane Mayer: “Yet another battleground state, Michigan is going to be key in the 2024 election and yet another very key constituency... Democratic Party has lost a lot of support in working class voters. And trying to win over labor... is really important.” (19:42)

• Contrast with Trump: Trump’s Michigan visit was to a non-union shop; supporters’ signage was staged and misrepresentative.

  • Jane Mayer: “Trump... posed as someone who was... representing the working man. But what does he do?... He goes to a non union shop at the invitation of the boss... When the Detroit News did a little poking... they were just carrying the signs.” (20:44)

• Dem party strategy: Biden aims to energize key blocs—unions (including Black labor households), young white progressives, and demonstrate on-the-ground commitment, especially after Clinton’s 2016 Michigan absence.

  • Susan Glasser: “Unions are extremely popular among the kind of young white progressives... he's in big trouble with those young voters... there's a ton of Black labor union households... trying to shore up core Democratic identity.” (21:15)

• Enduring effect of ‘fantasies’: The court ruling against Trump in New York is called a rare “form of accountability” but panelists aren’t sure the fantasy (and fear-based) politics he sells will lose their power.

  • Jane Mayer: “He's selling fear, as usual, and dividing people.” (25:45)
  • Evan Osnos: “He's also losing. He's lost in 2018, 2020, 2022.” (26:25)

IV. Looming Government Shutdown & GOP Dysfunction

(27:31 – 34:51)

• Impact of a shutdown: The conversation stresses the immense, real-world effects on government workers, recipients of public services, and the disproportionate burden on vulnerable groups.

  • Susan Glasser: “It's real people... who not only won't go to work, but they won't get their paychecks... sending home... air traffic controllers... not being able to get checks... or go to national parks.” (27:43)
  • Echoing nihilism of the “toddler caucus,” a faction within the GOP driving the shutdown with no clear purpose except to sabotage government.

• Republican shutdown tactics doomed to fail: They interpret the shutdown threat as a historically losing strategy—ultimately rebounding against Republicans, yet repeatedly attempted.

  • Susan Glasser: “Republicans have tried this play over and over... backfired... including, of course, on Donald Trump... he didn't get a single one of the things... he went for... in the first place.” (29:06)

• Trump’s interests & the far right: The panel notes Trump's own legal cases as a personal motivator for obstructionist tactics.

  • Jane Mayer: “Of course, there's something he wants from a shutdown... to shut down the prosecutions that are coming after him.” (29:51)
  • But, Susan Glasser: “Not going to work. We should point out that's one thing that will continue is criminal prosecution.” (30:04)

• Who is most affected: Biden’s messaging spotlights the impact on Black women, children, and marginalized communities; the EPA’s inability to act in high-risk areas is also highlighted.

• Weakness as pathology: The recurring self-destructiveness of current institutions stems from deep institutional and moral weakness rather than outright strength, illustrated by Republican self-marginalization and Democratic unpopularity.

  • Susan Glasser: “A lot of this crisis... is a crisis of weakness, of institutions and individuals... trust in almost everything is down, even the military.” (33:46)

V. Institutions, Individual Agency, & The Battle for Democracy

(34:51 – End)

• General Mark Milley & fragile institutional guardrails: As Milley retires from a “heroic tenure,” the story of the Trump years is framed as a near-miss, where institutions almost failed but were saved by the individual character of a few key figures, notably after the Lafayette Square incident.

  • Susan Glasser: “People very morally, in some ways, compromised... it's a story... about individual standing up to Trump because the institutions actually potentially could have gone the other way…” (37:06)
  • Milley’s letter: “It is my belief that you, Donald Trump, were doing great and irreparable harm to my country... I need to step aside and let someone else try it. Now, he didn't ultimately resign.” (37:53)

• The press assault on the military as an institution: Despite individual moments of resistance, the broader trend is the successfully orchestrated effort to undermine public trust in the military and other institutions.

• Comic relief & Melania Trump:

  • Jane Mayer: “Melania Trump is renegotiating her prenuptial agreement, which suggests she sees there might be trouble for Donald Trump’s finances ahead and wants to get her piece of the action. So maybe she thinks he’s…” (39:05)

• Final thoughts: The ultimate takeaway is that the individual moral choices of leaders are critical at moments of institutional crisis.

  • Evan Osnos: “The individual moral calculations and fiber of the people in power, matter, and institutions and individuals are in this constant contest.” (39:48)

Notable Quotes

• Jane Mayer on Feinstein: “Her exit is overshadowing a tremendous career that she had. It won’t be like this forever, but right now… it turns to big political stakes about what’s going to happen with this seat and California.” (01:29)
• President Biden: “This MAGA threat is a threat to the brick and mortar of our democratic institutions, but it’s also a threat to the character of our nation.” (06:44)
• Jane Mayer on "defending democracy": “It worked for Biden last time... but whether this can save Biden in this election is really, I think, a question.” (10:26)
• Susan Glasser on the GOP: “A Republican Party that is captured…by this extreme... if you look at the polls…Donald Trump [has] well over half, really two thirds or more of the Republican Party…” (12:45)
• Evan Osnos on Trump’s appeal: “The fantasy of Donald Trump is the persistent, most durable fact about it.” (24:51)
• Jane Mayer on shutdown nihilists: “They're kind of like juvenile... juvenile delinquents. That's what they kind of remind me of. But this small group that's kind taken the House hostage, this far right group.” (31:04)
• Susan Glasser on institutions: “It's a crisis of weakness, of weakness of institutions and weakness of individuals. Donald Trump happens to be very gifted at playing on the weakness others…” (33:46)
• Susan Glasser (on Milley): “It's a story of a small number of individuals who made the right choice... but the institutions actually potentially could have gone the other way if there were different people. It is... about how close we came...” (37:06)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:15 — News of Dianne Feinstein’s death and reflection on her legacy
• 06:44 — Biden’s speech on the MAGA threat and defense of democracy
• 14:08 — Recalling John McCain’s 2008 defense of Obama
• 19:19 — Biden joins UAW picket line; labor, strategy and symbolism
• 27:31 — What a government shutdown will mean; GOP "toddler caucus"
• 34:51 — Mark Milley's departure, individual agency, and the thin margins that saved institutions

Tone & Style

True to the spirit of The New Yorker, the conversation is analytical, measured, and laced with historical perspective, notable wit, and frequent self- and media-awareness. The panelists combine first-hand reporting, personal anecdotes, and broad thematic context with lightly sardonic asides and collegial banter, which underscores the seriousness of the institutional moment without sliding into alarmism.

This summary offers a comprehensive look at the episode’s substance, distilling the mood and key intellectual threads for listeners and non-listeners alike.