← The Political Scene | The New Yorker
The Political Scene | The New Yorker
Republicans for Hillary
00:16:41
Dorothy Wickenden talks with a former member of the George W. Bush Administration about how to save the GOP.
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- [00:00]
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- [01:16]
Dorothy Wickenden
This is the Political Scene, a weekly conversation with New Yorker writers and editors about politics. It's Friday, September 9th. I'm Dorothy Wickenden, executive editor of the New Yorker. Wednesday night on the Intrepid, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump spoke with NBC's Matt Lauer about their qualifications to be commander in chief.
- [01:35]
James K. Glassman
Here's Clinton what is the most important characteristic that a commander in chief can possess?
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Hillary Clinton
Steadiness. An absolute rock. Steadiness. And mixed with strength to be able to make the hard decisions. Because I've had the unique experience of watching and working with several presidents, and these are not easy decisions. If they were, they wouldn't get to the president in the first place. And when you're sitting in the Situation Room, as I have on numerous occasions, particularly with respect to determining whether to recommend the raid against bin Laden. What you want in a president, a commander in chief is someone who listens, who evaluates what is being told to him or her, who is able to sort out the very difficult options being presented. You're talking about judgment and then makes the decision. Makes the decision that's right.
- [02:34]
Dorothy Wickenden
And here's Trump in response to a question about what has prepared him for the job.
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Donald Trump
Well, I've built a great company. I've been all over the world. I've dealt with financial, foreign countries. I've done very well as an example, tremendously well. Dealing with China and dealing with so many of the countries that are just ripping this country. They are just taking advantage of us like nobody's ever seen before. And I've had great experience dealing on an international basis. I look today and I see a Russian plane circling our planes. They're taunting us.
- [03:05]
Dorothy Wickenden
James K. Glassman, who served as George W. Bush's Under Secretary of State, public diplomacy and public affairs, joins me to discuss why he has decided that the only way Republicans can save their party is by voting for Hillary Clinton. Hi, Jim.
- [03:20]
James K. Glassman
Hi, Dorothy.
- [03:21]
Dorothy Wickenden
Welcome to the program.
- [03:22]
James K. Glassman
Thank you.
- [03:23]
Dorothy Wickenden
So what did you think of the forum this week?
- [03:26]
James K. Glassman
Well, I thought that unfortunately didn't get into some sort of deeper policy issues that I wish they had gotten into. But I did think that Trump's performance, again, reinforces what I've certainly believed about him, which is that he's not ready to be commander in chief of the United States of America. And his comments about his briefings, the fact that he has sort of gone back and forth on issues like Libya and his general lack of knowledge, not to mention judgment on really important policy issues, you know, makes me as distressed as I've been for the last year.
- [04:10]
Dorothy Wickenden
About him on Putin alone. That alone, you would think, would be enough to send Republicans fleeing. But I wanted to ask you about what everyone seems to be talking about right now, which is the double standard in general for the two candidates. Matt Lauer has been really torn apart for pressing Hillary quite hard, probably, you know, spending too much time on the email server controversy and really letting Trump off the hook on a number of major lies. We know he's a compulsive liar, but it doesn't seem to matter. And more voters consider Trump honest and trustworthy than Clinton. How do you parse all of that?
- [04:46]
James K. Glassman
Well, first of all, those polls are pretty close, but I agree with you. I think that Trump is being held to a different standard, you know, on an issue like Libya, where he complains, really complains about the fact that, that we tried to do something about Gaddafi and he himself had said just before that that, you know, we ought to take him out and we ought to do this and do that. You know, I think Lauer should have said something about that. And, you know, on the ISIS issue where, for the last year, he's talked about he has a secret plan, but he can't reveal it. And then all of a sudden, he says, well, I'm going to give the generals 30 days to come up with a plan. I mean, which is it, one or the other anyway? But, yes, there is definitely. He's being graded on a curve. There's definitely a difference between the way Ms. Clinton is treated and the way he is now. I'm not completely sure this is gonna have that much of effect, because I think people can see with their very own eyes the inadequacies of Trump. And so whether it's highlighted by media or not, I don't think it's gonna make all that much of a difference.
- [05:56]
Dorothy Wickenden
So you dismiss the polls that everyone keeps citing that show them to be getting closer and closer, despite what we're seeing, by the way, with the electoral map?
- [06:05]
James K. Glassman
Yeah, I do. I mean, look, I think it's serious. I really feel that defeating Trump is one of the great causes of our age or our generation. I mean, I feel very strongly about that. So I certainly would not take it lightly. I mean, you know, the poll showing that he's within three points in the popular. I think is. I think that's. It's significant. I wouldn't say, oh, you know, it's in the bag for her, but I do think that she has. She has a significant lead. And as Karl Rove pointed out in the Wall Street Journal, you know, in the last nine elections, there's only been one person who's won an election trailing on Labor Day, and that was President Bush in 2000. And we know. We know how close that election was. So I think it's pretty hard to make up ground. But I would definitely be vigilant and not assume that the election's in the bag.
- [07:04]
Dorothy Wickenden
Well, and you are being vigilant. You're scathing about Republicans.
- [07:08]
James K. Glassman
More than vigilant, yes.
- [07:09]
Dorothy Wickenden
You're scathing about Republicans who say they won't vote for Trump, they can't vote for Clinton. Tell us about this grassroots effort you're part of to convince them that a Clinton presidency could actually prevent the GOP from dying.
- [07:23]
James K. Glassman
Well, this is. And it's very much a grassroots effort. This is something that was started a couple months ago by a friend and former colleague of mine named John Stubbs. And it's to try to get people who are recognized as Republicans, people who served in past administrations, as John and I both did, and get them to come out publicly in favor of Mrs. Clinton. Not simply to say, no, we're never going to vote for Trump, but to actually say they're going to vote for Clinton and actually do it. And look, there are, based on the polls, there are millions of Republicans who are going to vote for Clinton. But we think there are millions more out there who are. Who don't really know what to do. I mean, they know they can't stomach Trump, but it's hard for them, unfortunately, to cross party lines. And I'm someone who's voted for a Republican for president ever since Ronald Reagan in 1980. And I can say it's not easy, but this is an important cause and it needs to be done. And so we found and quite a few people who are in this position and will take a public stand. You know, people like Henry Paulson, the former Treasury Secretary, Carlos Gutierrez. These are really good people, and they're willing to say, I'm going to vote for Hillary Clinton.
- [08:50]
Katie Drummond
What the hell is going on right now? And why is it happening like this? At Wired, we're obsessed with getting to the bottom of those questions on a daily basis, and maybe you are, too. I'm Katie Drummond, the global editorial of Wired, and I'm hosting our new podcast series, the Big Interview. Each week I'll sit down with some of the most interesting, provocative and influential people who are shaping our right now. Big Interview conversations are fun. I want a shark that, that eats the Internet, that turns it all off, unfiltered and unafraid.
- [09:23]
James K. Glassman
So in a lot of ways, I try to be an antidote to the unimaginable faucet of reactionary content that you see online. To the best of my ability, every.
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Katie Drummond
Week, we're going to offer you the ultimate luxury of our times. Meaning and context. True or false. You, Brian Johnson, the man sitting across from me. One day, at some point, as of yet undefined in the future, you will die. False. Tell me more. Listen to the Big Interview right now in the same place you find Wired's Uncanny Valley podcast. Subscribe or follow wherever you get your podcasts.
- [10:00]
Dorothy Wickenden
Tell me about during the primaries, who were you supporting? At what point did you go over?
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James K. Glassman
Well, in the beginning, I supported Jeb Bush. I really think he would make an excellent president. He turned out to be quite a poor candidate.
- [10:14]
Dorothy Wickenden
That's a kind way of putting it, especially against Trump.
- [10:18]
James K. Glassman
And I think that was a surprise. You know, I also think that maybe Americans are not ready for a third Bush president, but I think there was, there were several good people who were running. You know, I like, like Marco Rubio. I'm not completely sure that he's ready to be president of the United States at this point, but certainly a lot better than Trump. And toward the end, when it became really a two person race between Cruz and Trump, I actually supported Cruz for my sins. I did not want to see Donald Trump be president. And so I actually contributed to Cruz. And also during this entire period, I was working with a couple of different groups who were trying to clear a path for an independent, a centrist, to have a shot at running against both a Republican and Democratic candidate that also did not work.
- [11:07]
Dorothy Wickenden
Tell us about that. Presumably someone unlike Gary Johnson, who's heard of Aleppo and of Harriet Tubman. Why have these undertakings failed? There have been a number of them. And this is at a time when the two major parties, they've become sclerotic completely.
- [11:22]
James K. Glassman
And I think that's a really good word. I mean, they've just the Republican Party's pretty old, says the Democratic Party, and maybe it's, you know, time to refresh both parties. I also think, you know, there's some structural problems here with the way, for example, nominees are chosen. This primary process is not working very well where you really have the extremes of both parties having tremendous say in who the nominee is going to be. There are lots of incentives for both, for nominees of both parties or contenders to go to the far wings of their parties. And really two thirds of Americans are in the middle.
- [11:59]
Dorothy Wickenden
Is that still true now even after this long period we've gone through with the Trump phenomenon and the Bernie Sanders phenomenon?
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James K. Glassman
Yes, I completely believe that. Yes, I do think that most Americans are moderate, so we don't have those kinds of choices here. And I think that it would be better not just for Americans in general, but even for the two parties if we did have that choice.
- [12:23]
Dorothy Wickenden
You wrote in an op ed piece for the Times this week that Clinton has trouble with the truth, wants to raise taxes and opposes free trade with Asia. It's not exactly a ringing endorsement. That said, what kind of president do you think she would be?
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James K. Glassman
I think she'd be a very good president. And I think that she would. Well, let me just say, you know, all those things I believe in. You know, I'm very disappointed that she's opposing the Trans Pacific Partnership, which I think would be good for America, which.
- [12:55]
Dorothy Wickenden
She formally supported, in fact, actively pushed.
- [12:58]
James K. Glassman
Yes, exactly. And I think this is really a concession to Sanders voters. And I also, you know, I disagree with the tax policies as she's enunciated them, although a Lot of them are actually not all that bad. I mean, her, the increase that she wants to have on marginal personal income tax rates only kicks in if you make more than $5 million. But there's a lot of other things she wants to do that I disagree with. But I do think that she sees this as a race. If she wins, that could produce a real, a kind of presidency where there are real bipartisan accomplishments. And I don't think I'm being naive about that. So I think she'd be very good on foreign policy. And I also think she has shown as a senator and certainly Bill Clinton showed when he was in office. And I think there's going to be some carryover there that she can work with Republicans. So I'm very optimistic about what happens when Hillary Clinton becomes president.
- [14:09]
Dorothy Wickenden
What issues do you think the Republicans would meet her halfway on?
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James K. Glassman
Immigration, number one, I think will finally solve this whole immigration problem that's been festering since at least 2007, when President Bush put up a good bipartisan proposal that passed one House, didn't pass the other. Second, I do think it's going to take a while, but I do think we'll get the trade issues straightened out. I think that on foreign policy, we're going to go back to the bipartisan consensus that's prevailed since the end of World War II, that is to say, this series of firm alliances which I think would be in serious jeopardy under Trump. And then I also think that we may make some headway on health care. The system we have now has got to be fixed in some way. And I'm even leaning toward, you know, maybe we do need a single payer plan. But I think this is the kind of thing that can be fixed on a bipartisan basis, but certainly not on a single party basis.
- [15:17]
Dorothy Wickenden
Yesterday I went to look at your group's video and I was interested because it features quite a nostalgic look at Ronald Reagan. And I was wondering as I was watching it whether part of the Republican Party's problem isn't in large part its inability to move past Reagan and into the 21st century. You know, for instance, we now have this phenomenon which is almost one and the same with Trump, which is the alt right. And Trump is not going anywhere. Even if he loses, this movement is going to continue. How are you all going to help reinvent the Republican Party?
- [15:55]
James K. Glassman
Well, I completely agree with that. I mean, I do think there's a lot of nostalgia about Reagan. And, you know, to some extent that video is trying to appeal to traditional Republicans, and you say Reagan and everyone swoons. But I agree. I think we need a modern Republican Party. A lot of our ideas have gotten extremely tired. I mean, you know, I just don't want to hear any more about, you know, solution to everything is cutting taxes. And I also think that the Republican Party has done a very poor job of appealing to America's technological and entrepreneurial class, if you want to call it a class. I mean, you know, sort of natural allies of Republicans who don't like Republicans and partly because of social issues. You know, that's the other thing. After 2012, you had this reassessment, and the reassessment by the Republican National Committee was, gee, we need to do more to appeal to Hispanic voters and black voters and women. Women and, you know, gay and lesbian voters. And what have we done? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. So I would like to see the Republican Party, yes. Bring itself into the 21st century. And if it doesn't do that, well, first of all, it's not going to do that if Donald Trump wins. Absolutely not. And that's why we want one of the reasons we want him to lose. But second, if the party doesn't do that, then I would frankly like to see either a battle for the heart and soul of the Republican Party, or if that doesn't work, I'd like to see a new party. I don't see anything wrong with three parties at all, or maybe even four parties. So something's got to give. And one of the good things about this Trump nonsense is that I think it's going to force some kind of change. I mean, the pressure has been building and building and building, and now I think we're going to see some kind of change, whatever happens. But I think it's easier for that change to come about if Trump loses.
- [18:09]
Dorothy Wickenden
Well, I applaud your optimism on various fronts. Thanks so much, Jim.
- [18:14]
James K. Glassman
Thank you, Dorothy.
- [18:15]
Dorothy Wickenden
James K. Glassman served as George W. Bush's Under Secretary of State for Public Diplomacy and Public affairs, and he is an advisor to R4C16.org, a grassroots group of Republicans who are supporting Clinton for president. This has been the Political Scene from the New Yorker. You can find more political analysis and commentary on new yorker.com or on the New Yorker apps available at no extra charge from the App Store and Google Play. And you can subscribe to this and other New Yorker podcasts by searching for the New Yorker in your podcast, Apple. The Political Scene is produced by Alex Barron and Jill Duboff for newyorker.com I'm Dorothy Wickenden.
- [19:07]
Katie Drummond
I'm Katie Drummond. I'm Wired's global editorial director. I'm Michael Kalore, Wired's director of consumer, Tech and Culture.
- [19:14]
Dorothy Wickenden
And I'm Lauren Good.
- [19:15]
Katie Drummond
I'm a senior correspondent at Wired.
- [19:17]
Dorothy Wickenden
And our show, Uncanny Valley is about the people, power, and influence of Silicon Valley.
- [19:23]
Katie Drummond
And right now, Silicon Valley and Washington have never been more intertwined. So each week, we get together to talk about a big story, often at the intersection of tech and politics. Right. So whether we're talking about Trump, Coin Doge, or Elon Musk, we will always explain how these Silicon Valley forces are affecting Washington and how they affect you. Make sure you're following Uncanny Valley in your podcast app of choice so you don't miss an episode.
- [19:53]
James K. Glassman
From prx.