Podcast Summary: Stephen Hayes Talks to David Remnick About the Future of Conservatism

Podcast: The Political Scene | The New Yorker
Host: David Remnick
Guest: Stephen Hayes (Editor, The Weekly Standard)
Date: March 13, 2017
Episode Theme:
A candid exploration of the challenges and trajectory of American conservatism in the Trump era, featuring Stephen Hayes, a prominent "Never Trump" conservative, in conversation with David Remnick. The discussion centers on the implications of Trump's presidency for the Republican Party, the conservative movement, and the role of media amid unprecedented partisanship and political upheaval.

Main Theme Overview

This episode investigates the ideological identity crisis within the Republican Party and the broader conservative movement during the first hundred days of Donald Trump's presidency. David Remnick and Stephen Hayes delve into the conflicting currents shaping the GOP: traditional conservativism versus Trumpian nationalism, the struggle for intellectual influence, and the uncertain future of conservative principles in a rapidly changing political landscape.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Stephen Hayes’ Reflections as a “Never Trump” Conservative

[02:51–03:35]

• Hayes admits to initial skepticism about Trump’s commitment to conservative principles and expresses worries about Trump’s unpredictability on key issues like healthcare, Supreme Court appointments, and foreign policy.
• Quote:

  “I was skeptical that he would keep his word... he was on virtually every side of every issue.” — Stephen Hayes [02:51]

2. Trump’s Relationship with Russia and Truth

[03:52–04:51]

• Hayes notes the unusual consistency of Trump’s friendliness toward Vladimir Putin amidst otherwise erratic policy stances.

• On Trump’s honesty:

  • Quote:

    “He says things that aren't true all the time... We’ve had a phrase at the Weekly Standard called casual dishonesty. He’s dishonest about seemingly meaningless things, and conservatives shouldn’t shy away from saying that.” — Stephen Hayes [04:21]

• Calls for conservative media to hold Trump to account, not just the mainstream press.

3. The “Not Normal” Presidency and Conservatism's Waning Influence

[05:15–07:50]

• Remnick raises concerns from the left about Trump as not just another Republican but as an abnormal figure due to his rhetoric and ethics.

• Hayes notes that conservative intellectuals’ anti-Trump arguments failed to persuade GOP voters, forcing magazines like The Weekly Standard to shift from opposition to constructive engagement:

  • Quote:

    “We made what we thought were principled, conservative arguments against Donald Trump... and people didn’t care as much as we wished that they had.” — Stephen Hayes [06:16]

• Hayes outlines his role: propose solutions, correct Trump’s errors, and challenge party orthodoxy when necessary, while maintaining long-held conservative values.

4. Influence of Conservative Media in the Trump Era

[07:50–09:25]

• Hayes feels that The Weekly Standard is listened to within the administration, given staff ties to traditional conservativism.
• Asserts their oppositional credibility (“nobody can accuse us of... being boosters of Trump during the campaign”) makes them uniquely able to report honestly.
• Commitment to actual reporting over partisan "hot takes."
  • Quote:

    “We are the kind of conservatives today that we were 20 years ago. I expect... we’ll be the same kind of conservatives 20 years from now.” — Stephen Hayes [08:11]

5. Trump’s “Enemy of the People” Attack on the Press

[09:25–10:28]

• Hayes strongly condemns Trump's slur against the press:

  • Quote:

    “It was un-American of the President of the United States to say that. The press plays an absolutely pivotal role in our republic... The press is not the enemy of the American people, and it’s disgraceful to say so.” — Stephen Hayes [09:35]

• He criticizes media biases but emphasizes the constitutional role and indispensability of journalism.

6. The Pace and Surreal Intensity of Trump’s Presidency

[10:28–12:47]

• Hayes shares an anecdote highlighting the unceasing tumult of political news post-election, noting even “normal” moments from Trump are graded on a curve due to the administration’s volatility.
• Quote:

  “One of the reasons the President got such positive reviews for the speech... was because, for a little bit, it was a break from that. He didn’t tee off on the news media.” — Stephen Hayes [11:34]

7. Big Government vs. Small Government Republicanism

[12:47–15:40]

• Hayes sees Trump as a "big government Republican," comfortable with using state power and explicitly opposing entitlement reform—once a centerpiece of conservative fiscal orthodoxy.

  • Quote:

    “Trump will be a big government Republican. He’s comfortable with the use of government to do... things he wants to do and... he has no intention of doing, like reforming entitlements." — Stephen Hayes [13:23]

• Raises concern about whether Congressional Republicans will continue to compromise core conservative beliefs in deference to the president.

8. Autocracy, Outrage Fatigue, and the Opposition

[15:40–17:23]

• Discusses David Frum’s warnings about autocracy and the risk of legitimate critiques being lost amidst constant outrage.
• Hayes's advice to Trump’s political opponents:
  • Quote:

    “If every utterance is 10 on the outrage meter, people will tune out quickly... times when we agree on what we ought to be concerned about... will be lost.” — Stephen Hayes [16:33]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Hayes on Conservative Influence:
  “We matter less than we thought.” [06:16]
• Hayes on Truth-Telling:
  “He lies all the time. I don’t think there’s any doubt about that.” [04:21]
• Hayes on Media Attacks:
  “It was un-American of the President... the press is not the enemy of the American people.” [09:35]
• On Trump’s Unpredictability:
  “He was on virtually every side of every issue.” [02:51]
• On Outrage Management:
  “If every utterance is 10 on the outrage meter, people will tune out quickly.” [16:33]

Key Segments & Timestamps

• Intro and Trump's Early Presidency Overview: [01:16–02:22]
• Hayes Reflects on Trump's Election & Conservatism’s Challenges: [02:51–03:35]
• Discussion of Russia and Trump’s Honesty: [03:52–04:51]
• Media and Intellectual Conservatism’s Diminished Influence: [05:47–07:50]
• Conservative Media's Trump White House Role: [07:50–09:25]
• Trump’s “Enemy of the People” Remark: [09:25–10:28]
• Discussing the Hyper-Intensity of Trump’s Presidency: [10:28–12:47]
• Big Government or Small? Conservatism at a Crossroads: [12:47–15:40]
• On Autocracy and the Dangers of Constant Outrage: [15:40–17:23]

Conclusion

This episode provides a rare, nuanced conservative critique of Trump-era Republicanism. Stephen Hayes champions old-line conservative principles, candidly acknowledges conservatism's reduced influence, and underscores the need for principled media and political actors—even as the Republican Party adapts to, or capitulates before, Trumpism. The episode stands out for its acknowledgment of intra-right dissent, its call for honest dialogue, and its concern for American institutions in a turbulent era.