The Political Scene | The New Yorker
Episode: Teju Cole on Blackface
Date: February 18, 2019
Host: David Remnick
Guest: Teju Cole (novelist, essayist, photographer, Harvard professor)
Episode Overview
In this episode, David Remnick speaks with Teju Cole about the political and cultural meanings of blackface, prompted by the then-recent scandal involving Virginia Governor Ralph Northam’s yearbook photos. Their conversation digs into the deeper roots of racism in America, how incidents like Northam’s function in the public eye, and the limitations of focusing on individual cases rather than structural issues. Cole draws on his experiences as a writer, critic, and student of photography, and reflects on his journey understanding U.S. racial dynamics as an immigrant.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
The Ralph Northam Blackface Scandal
- Initial Reactions & Media Frenzy
- Cole expresses a lack of surprise over the Northam photo, emphasizing the routine nature of such incidents in American society.
- Teju Cole: "The only strange thing about seeing this particular little thing explode was how unsurprising it was."
[02:37]
- Uncertainty and Changing Stories
- The facts of the case were unclear—was Northam actually in the photo? Still, Cole sees the focus on the individual as a distraction from systemic issues.
- The public demands resignation, but Cole questions what meaningful change would actually result.
Systemic Racism vs. Individual Guilt
- Cole critiques the American impulse to isolate and punish individuals for racist acts without addressing longstanding systemic inequalities.
- Teju Cole: "If Northam resigns...it serves a kind of a valve function of which this country seems to frequently require an example."
[04:53] - Structural racism—such as wealth inequality and housing discrimination—remains mostly unaddressed.
- Teju Cole: "That is racism. And yet I don't suppose most white Americans wake up in the morning and feel personally responsible for that state of affairs."
[04:20]
Blackface as Recurring Cultural Phenomenon
- Blackface, as an expression of racism, is “a sleeping virus” that never really left American popular culture.
- The recurrence of blackface on college campuses echoes major shifts in the country; similarly, Confederate monuments appeared after Reconstruction.
- Teju Cole: "Black people could always be insulted or could always be assumed not to be in the audience that the joke was for. Because after all, this is what it comes down to—a kind of, who are we addressing here?"
[06:10]
Cole’s Personal Perspective as an Immigrant
- Cole shares his experience growing up in Nigeria and coming to the U.S. at 17: he initially had limited understanding of American racial dynamics.
- Exposure as a child to American films like “Blazing Saddles” through a “white filter” impacted his understanding.
- Teju Cole: "So being in the US...has been about learning how insidious racism in this country is."
[08:00]
The Power and Limits of Photography
- As a historian and critic of photography, Cole reflects on the medium’s inability to capture the full story behind any image of racism.
- Teju Cole: “A photograph is made in 1/25th of a second...everything before that moment, everything after it, we really don't have. So if I do see somebody in a photo doing something that seems to be racist, my first assumption is that, well, there's a lot more where that came from.”
[09:00]
Tipping Points, Reconciliation, and Progress
- Cole voices skepticism about the idea of a racial “tipping point” in America.
- Teju Cole: "I think I've learned that when it comes to race in America, there is no tipping point. I mean, it's no tipping point with cesspools. It's just going to be this very, very slow cleanup process."
[10:13] - On President Obama’s optimism about American progress, Cole counters that Obama’s personal story was not a “general truth,” pointing to backlash and the climate after Obama’s presidency.
- Teju Cole: “Maybe it's one step forward, two steps back. You know, the samba is also...”
[11:17]
Hope and the Speed of Societal Change
- Despite his skepticism, Cole acknowledges that social change can happen unexpectedly fast, illustrated by rapid progress on LGBTQ rights.
- Teju Cole: “When societal change happens, it happens at such a velocity that it takes even the experts in that particular area by surprise. ...50, 60, 100 years of an overnight success.”
[11:50]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- Teju Cole: “The only thing that happened here is that he was caught.” [02:44]
- David Remnick: “It seems to me that, obviously, this is the symptom of a much deeper, more widespread disease.” [05:00]
- Teju Cole: “Black people could always be insulted or could always be assumed not to be in the audience that the joke was for.” [06:10]
- Teju Cole: “Being in the US has been about learning how insidious racism in this country is.” [08:00]
- Teju Cole: “I think President Obama mistook his remarkable personal story for a general truth. And it's just not one that really holds.” [10:52]
- Teju Cole: “Maybe it's one step forward, two steps back. The samba is also a complicated dance.” [11:17]
- Teju Cole: “When societal change happens, it happens at such a velocity that it takes even the experts ...by surprise.” [11:50]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- [01:15] – Introduction to Teju Cole and the Northam blackface photo
- [02:37] – Why the incident was “unsurprising” to Cole
- [03:11] – Cole on the efficacy (or lack thereof) of resignation and public punishments
- [04:20] – Discussion on structural racism and collective responsibility
- [05:30] – Blackface’s reappearance and cultural persistence
- [06:44] – Cole’s immigrant perspective and first encounters with U.S. racial imagery
- [08:34] – Photography’s limitations in capturing racism
- [10:13] – Cole’s skepticism on racial “tipping points” in America
- [10:52] – Obama’s optimism and the reality of progress
- [11:50] – The unpredictable “velocity” of social change
Summary
This wide-ranging conversation uses the Northam scandal as a springboard to examine the enduring, often invisible mechanisms of American racism. Teju Cole challenges the focus on individual guilt, urges a systemic view, and provides a personal account of learning about the subtleties of racism as an immigrant. Although he expresses skepticism about rapid progress on race, Cole acknowledges the surprise and speed with which societal change can sometimes occur—leaving an uneasy but honest hope about the future.