Terry Gross Talks with David Remnick

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Episode: Terry Gross Talks with David Remnick
Date: January 6, 2020
Host: David Remnick
Guest: Terry Gross (Host of Fresh Air)
Event: Recorded live at the New Yorker Festival, October 2019

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Overview

In this episode, David Remnick—editor of The New Yorker—engages in a compelling, in-depth conversation with legendary radio interviewer Terry Gross. Together, they explore Gross’s storied career, from her early days in public radio to her nearly 45-year tenure on NPR’s Fresh Air, dissecting the craft of interviewing, the evolution of women’s roles in radio, and the surprising intimacy of conversations held across distances. Gross candidly reflects on her process, challenges, and what gives her interviews their unique depth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Crafting a Great Interview

• Terry’s Process
  • Research is mostly conducted the night before; questions are written in the morning, often right before a 10 AM interview.

    “I do the research the afternoon and the night before, and then in the morning I write up the questions. My interview is often at 10 in the morning, so I don’t have a lot of time…” (Terry Gross, 03:02)

  • She multitasks during and after live shows, preparing intros and copy for future episodes.
• Role of Her Team
  • There’s a generational mix among Fresh Air’s staff, helping keep up with the overwhelming volume of pop culture.
  • Producers help preview films/TV; Terry herself reads the books and prepares for literary interviews.

The Ethics of Editing and Ground Rules

• Guest Comfort & “Do-Overs”
  • Gross gives guests permission to rephrase their answers mid-interview if needed, but with stipulations:

    “If at any point... they want a second crack at it, they can back up to an earlier part of the answer and say it again. But... start at the beginning of a sentence so we can make a clean edit.” (Terry Gross, 05:16)

  • If a question feels too personal, guests can signal her to move on.
• No “Do-Overs” for Politicians
  • She is clear: "Anybody who's in elected office or running for elected office." gets no second chances.

    “...I do not do that with politicians.” (Terry Gross, 06:42)

  • She avoids political interviews, feeling inadequately informed to challenge politicians’ talking points and unwilling to let them “get away with something.”

The Unique Intimacy of Remote Interviews

• Interviewing Remotely
  • David remarks on the oddity of not being face-to-face; Terry counters that this can enhance intimacy.

    “There is something incredibly, surprisingly intimate about having somebody's voice just fed into your ears, directly kind of into your head and your brain.” (Terry Gross, 09:08)

  • Without visual cues, all communication must come through the voice.

Terry Gross’s Early Life and the Path to Radio

• Growing Up & Early Radio Influences
  • Both Terry (Brooklyn) and David (NJ) grew up in an era with almost no female radio voices; she idolized AM personalities like Murray the K and pioneering DJ Allison Steele.

    “Allison Steele—the Nightbird. The night will soothe you like a tender mother folding you against her soft bosom…” (Terry Gross, 09:49–09:57, as Steele)

• Life Before Broadcasting
  • Gross had a brief, disastrous stint as a junior high English teacher in Buffalo, NY.

    “I got fired within six weeks because I was that good.” (Terry Gross, 12:22)

  • Fell into radio via a feminist show at her college station after temp jobs and “collective” living experiments.
  • Her first radio voice was high and nervous; eventually, she trained her voice through the Alexander Technique (posture and breathing exercises).

The Early Days of Women in Public Radio

• Systemic Change
  • Remnick notes that low pay in early NPR opened doors for women, with men seeking higher salaries elsewhere.

    “The thing you have to understand about a career like Terry Gross is that it was made possible by... public radio paid so poorly that women came to public radio.” (David Remnick, 16:47)

• Legacy of Bill Siemering
  • Siemering’s feminist values and policies fostered female voices on air.

    “Bill Siemering... had feminist values... he was told, you're making a big mistake. He knew he wasn't, and he set the tone.” (Terry Gross, 17:19)

Feminism and the Pipeline to NPR

• College Radio as Ground Zero
  • The women’s movement in the 1970s saw many feminists cutting their teeth at college radio, feeding the NPR talent pool.

Personal Weaknesses and Interviewer Insight

• Gross admits to shyness; radio gave her a “liberating” power to ask hard questions.

  “I was an inherently shy person and... the microphone kind of liberated me…” (Terry Gross, 20:00)

• She grew up “socialized to be liked,” but sees her job now as holding people accountable through probing questions.

  “And, like, suddenly, like, no, it’s not about being liked. It’s about doing your job, holding people accountable, asking probing questions...” (Terry Gross, 20:45)

Therapy vs. Interviewing

• Essential Differences
  • In therapy, the goal is the subject’s well-being; as an interviewer, she aims to clarify and shape her guest’s narrative.

    “I am there to help you clarify your thoughts... and to ask you questions that I think might be helpful in maybe... framing some new thoughts...” (Terry Gross, 21:47)

Memorable Interviews: The Honesty of Maurice Sendak

• Gross is recognized for drawing out deep emotional honesty, as with Maurice Sendak on mortality and grief.

  "My tears flow because two great, great friends died close together, a husband and a wife who meant everything to me... It’s very, very hard." (Maurice Sendak, 23:04)

• Gross believes demonstrating deep engagement with a guest’s work fosters this trust:

  “...The way to get somebody to speak honestly and openly isn’t to flatter them... it’s to ask questions that show your comprehension... and show through your questions that it has deeply affected you.” (Terry Gross, 24:13)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Research Discipline:

  “When it comes to the book, with a few exceptions, I will be the one who reads the book and... do all the processing of that.” (Terry Gross, 03:52)

• On Politicians:

  “I take politics too seriously to be in the position where I’m letting somebody get away with something.” (Terry Gross, 07:12)

• On First Hearing Her Voice:

  “When I first heard my voice, it was really a horrible experience... it was like, oh, my God, do I sound that way?” (Terry Gross, 15:15)

• On Early Feminism at NPR:

  “He [Bill Siemering] wanted women on the air. And he was told, you’re making a big mistake. He knew he wasn’t, and he set the tone.” (Terry Gross, 17:19)

• On Intimacy of Remote Conversations:

  “There is something incredibly, surprisingly intimate about having somebody’s voice just fed into your ears, directly kind of into your head and your brain.” (Terry Gross, 09:08)

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Key Timestamps

• 01:33: David Remnick’s confession and admiration for Terry Gross’ interviewing style
• 03:02–03:52: Terry describes her research and prep process
• 05:16: Terry explains her “Bill of Rights” for guests
• 06:46: Terry’s hard line on not offering do-overs to politicians
• 09:08: The intimacy of voice-only interviews
• 12:22–12:58: Terry’s failed teaching job
• 13:42: The serendipitous path to her first feminist radio job
• 15:03–15:59: On discovering and training her own voice
• 17:19: On Bill Siemering’s feminist leadership at NPR
• 20:00: Gross’s thoughts on shyness and power
• 21:47: How interviewing differs from therapy
• 23:04–23:44: Maurice Sendak speaks about loss and mortality
• 24:13: Terry on building trust for authentic interviews

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Closing Reflections

This conversation not only tracks Terry Gross’s remarkable career and personal journey but also reveals her philosophy and precise mechanics behind masterful interviewing. She underscores the values of preparation, humility, and genuine engagement, with insights relevant to interviewers—and listeners—everywhere.

Transcript

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[Terry Gross]

I'm Dorothy Wickenden. On today's Politics and More podcast, David Remnick talks with Terry Gross. They discuss her early days in public radio, her four decades as the host of Fresh Air, and the secrets of a great interview.

[David Remnick]

Now I've got a confession to make. When I first started doing this program, I was a little anxious. I've been a print journalist all my life, a writer and an editor, but talking to you in my own voice on the radio or a podcast felt a little strange. So to prepare myself, I decided to study the great ones. And at the very top of that list has got to be Terry Gross. Gross has been the host of Fresh air for nearly 45 years, and over that time she's interviewed thousands and thousands of guests, from Ray Charles to Hillary Clinton to, I don't know. Any summary of her big guests doesn't actually do her justice. Terry is perhaps the best interviewer of our time. Let's strike the perhaps she is. Terry Grosch joined me in October 2019 at the New Yorker Festival, where the crowd welcomed her like a Rock star Terry, I'm basically going to steal tips from you. I don't really care about them. I want to know how you do it. Because when you go into an interview, it's obvious to me, and I think all your listeners from the get go, that you are so grounded and in the knowledge that's necessary to have for an extended real conversation. I'd like to know about process, what goes into your week, how does it work?

[Terry Gross]

Well, okay, I do the research the afternoon and the night before, and then in the morning I write up the questions. My interview is often at 10 in the morning, so I don't have a lot of time to do anything really. And then after that, I'm reading the copy to introduce guests while the show is actually on the air, so to speak. I'm in the studio just in case. But I've tried to prerecord all the introductions and I'm writing copy for tomorrow's show while our show is on and then back to the rest.

[David Remnick]

You don't do it all yourself. God knows I. Even on our modest show, I have a team of people that works very hard to do research and book people and all the rest. You've had some of the same people for a very long time.

[Terry Gross]

Yeah, we have a great generational mix on our show. People are in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s. We try so hard to keep up with pop culture. It's not possible anymore. There is just too much to keep up with. So they go to the film festivals and watch all the Netflix stuff that's coming out and all the screenings and TV shows. And then they'll give me like little film festival things. They'll show me scenes from earlier movies. I'll see the new movie and maybe I've seen some of their old movies already, but then they'll show me scene from movies or if it's one of those like 20 episodes, they drop at the same time kind of things. The producers will watch. The episodes give me a good sense of like, the highlights show me scenes. But when it comes to the book, like, with few exceptions, I will be the one who reads the book and reads the research and, you know, do all the processing of that.

[David Remnick]

One of the distinguishing features of your show and being on it is that we're never in the same, very rarely in the same room with you. I've been interviewed by you, as a lot of people at the New Yorker have. And what they do is they go to a public radio studio and they put on headphones and sooner or later after the usual, what did you have for breakfast? To get sound levels, you come on and you welcome us and you give us a few rules. What are they?

[Terry Gross]

Okay. The advice I always give, it's kind of like the Bill of Rights that I read to people and I tell them that since we're recording, they should feel free to take advantage of that. If at any point in the middle of an answer, if they feel, feel like they figured out what they really wanted to say or they just thought of a clearer, better, more concise way of putting it and they want a second crack at it, they can back up to an earlier part of the answer and say it again. But if they do that, they should start at the beginning of a sentence so we can make a clean edit. And if I ask them anything too personal, they should let me know and I'll move on to something else. And I'll also tell them, like, if I make a mistake, interrupt me and correct me. That way I can say it again and get it right. We can edit out the error and prevent it from going on the air and prevent it from being on your Wikipedia page forever.

[David Remnick]

Now, I think you probably know what's coming next. I was raised in print journalism, and if I were interviewing Henry Kissinger and it slipped out of his mouth, tomorrow I'm going to bomb Cambodia, and then he said, wait a minute, I didn't mean that. I wouldn't. And we were on the record, I wouldn't give him a back seize. I wouldn't let him redo it. I understand it completely for lots of other fields of endeavor, but particularly in political conversation, consequential.

[Terry Gross]

Yes, And I neglected to say I do not do that with politicians.

[David Remnick]

So who would you not do it with?

[Terry Gross]

Anybody who's in elected office or running for elected office.

[David Remnick]

But you told me.

[Terry Gross]

But I don't interview them anyway.

[David Remnick]

Yeah, you don't like doing it with interviewing politicians, do you?

[Terry Gross]

No, because for two reasons. One is I feel like they walk in with their talking points and no matter what you ask them, that's what they're going to tell you. And the other thing is, I think if you're interviewing a politician, you owe it to your readers or to your listeners to know the difference between the bullshit and the truth. And if you're not following them on a regular basis, you're not going to necessarily be able to catch that. If I'm doing, say, like three hours of research, or even if I'm taking off a day just to prepare for that interview, I'M not going to know enough to know when they're just being hypocritical or denying an action, covering up an action. If you're following them, if you're covering them on your beat, you will know the difference and be able to catch them in that. So I feel, like, unprepared and therefore inept at doing that. I just don't. I take politics too seriously to be in the position where I'm letting somebody get away with something.

[David Remnick]

How soon into an interview do you know this is going to be good or this is going to be not so good?

[Terry Gross]

Sometimes I feel like I know on the sound check, sometimes somebody is so kind of grumpy and just like. Like, oh, they made me be here. It says in my contract I have to be here to promote it. And I'm here. What do you want from me? And you could just tell. Sometimes you get past the first few questions and suddenly you hear a shift and you hear like somebody's kind of clicking in and engaging. And it's great when that happens.

[David Remnick]

And there's an advantage to being in Philadelphia by yourself. It seems paradoxical to me, because you would think, as in the conversation we're having now, despite the fact that there are all these other people, we have physical cues. We have ways that our eyes work or our hands or something to indicate confusion or ask me more or back off or something. You don't have that, but maybe you're listening better. I don't know.

[Terry Gross]

Well, I always think in the best of all possible worlds, since we're both just hearing each other, that we're making better radio because everything has to. All the cues have to be in our voices. And whether that's actually true or not in terms of being effective, I don't know. But there is something incredibly, surprisingly intimate about having somebody's voice just fed into your ears, directly kind of into your head and your brain.

[David Remnick]

Terry, you grew up in Brooklyn. I grew up in New Jersey. Same radio area. If we're being honest with ourselves, when we were kids, and you're just a little older than me, there were no women on the radio. There was Alison Steele.

[Terry Gross]

Allison Steele, the Nightbird.

[David Remnick]

The Nightbird. WNEW fm.

[Terry Gross]

Yes.

[David Remnick]

Kind of purring into the. Exactly, into the microphone.

[Terry Gross]

The night will soothe you like a tender mother folding you against her soft bosom and hiding you from the harm of the world. In this brief hour, you are master of all highways, and the universe nestles in your soul. So come fly with me. Allison Steele, the Nightbird At WNEW FM in stereo.

[David Remnick]

And that was it. What were you listening to and what excited you?

[Terry Gross]

Well, when I was very young, I was listening to AM Radio Marie. The K was my favorite. I used to love how he would. He'd play the instrumental part, talk over it, knew exactly how many seconds it was going to take, and as soon as he stopped talking, the vocal would start and it would be just like perfect timing. Hey, baby, It's Murray Cave of the Beatles, and we're talking to you from London, England, where it's all happening over here.

[David Remnick]

What you're about to hear happened in Miami.

[Terry Gross]

Ringo and I sitting on the beach.

[David Remnick]

Now, there was a period of your life where you kind of you, as I understand it, a little on the directionless side. I think the Amish would call it a roomspringer. When you're in your early 20s and you go to sort of shed your identity from Sheepshead Bay a little bit, you were in a hippie commune, am I right?

[Terry Gross]

Well, to be precise, when I was in college, we called it a collective, not a commune in the sense that, like, at least for a long period, we'd share our money and the cooking and the cleaning and all that, which I think is a very sensible arrangement to have. And then we did something really silly. We spent the summer on a professor's land, living in tents, and when it would really storm, we'd go to the Dunkin Donuts. And that would be my favorite part. I was so not cut out for, like, living in tents.

[David Remnick]

Yeah. You know, you wouldn't have done well at Woodstock, I don't think.

[Terry Gross]

Oh, I went to Woodstock.

[David Remnick]

Yeah.

[Terry Gross]

Yeah.

[David Remnick]

What did you think you were going to do with your life? You're in Buffalo and you were studying to do, to teach. You were a teacher.

[Terry Gross]

For a little while, I was a teacher. I got fired within six weeks because I was that good.

[David Remnick]

That's a bad teacher. How'd you get fired in six weeks?

[Terry Gross]

Well, it was kind of easy. It was eighth grade English junior high and Buffalo, New York's toughest inner city junior high. When someone from the Board of Ed came to, like, observe, observe me. My students overturned the bookcase as if to send a direct message, like, she doesn't know what she's doing. And I didn't. I didn't. I didn't know how to keep them in the classroom, let alone to teach.

[David Remnick]

It seems harsh, though, to get five weeks.

[Terry Gross]

I was short then. Like, I'm short now. And, you know, I wasn't much older than they were. And I really didn't know how to be an authority figure. They needed structure. They needed security. Those were the things that they often didn't have at home or in the streets. And I didn't know how to give it to them.

[David Remnick]

So you go back home in defeat, maybe doing some typing, I think to.

[Terry Gross]

I worked at temp agencies where I got criticized for. When there was no work to do, reading.

[David Remnick]

Yeah. So you decided to make a virtual terrible thing.

[Terry Gross]

Terrible, terrible thing.

[David Remnick]

But so radio came to. It seems to me, in a pretty odd way. There was a feminist radio station or a feminist radio show in Boston.

[Terry Gross]

It was a feminist radio show at the college station, which I had been listening to at another job I had, which was typing the Buffalo State College Faculty Policy Manual. So, you know, work doesn't get more interesting than that. So I had on wbfo, the station on the college campus, in the background. And like, oh, God, the shows were so good. And when my job at the faculty Policy manual was over because I had typed everything efficient, I ended up having a roommate back in the house that was not a commune who was going to be on the feminist show. And it turns out that she came out on the show, and then her girlfriend was moving to the lesbian feminist show, opening up a place on the feminist show, which is the right. Which is a long story, but I ended up taking that place.

[David Remnick]

What was that first show like? What was your voice like?

[Terry Gross]

My voice was kind of like that. Like, it was really high because, One, because I was younger, two, because when I get nervous, my voice tends to get high. And that was especially true before I understood how my voice worked.

[David Remnick]

How did you do that? In other words, how did you listen to yourself, train yourself and make it the voice that we hear every day and love?

[Terry Gross]

Well, when I first heard my voice, it was really a horrible experience. I don't know if that's true for people now because people have cell phones and you can record your voice on it. But I hadn't heard my voice. And so, you know, the way our voices sound between our ears is very different than they sound on tape. So when I heard it on tape, it was like, oh, my God, do I sound that way? And I tried to speak more slowly. I tried to not sound kind of like this, but it's hard, you know, it's hard. But one of the smartest things I did, I think I took Alexander lessons, which is a posture. You know about it?

[David Remnick]

I don't.

[Terry Gross]

Oh, it's called Alexander technique, and it's posture lessons. Don't judge my posture because I'm still not very, very well postured. But it's. British actors take Alexander technique lessons, and a lot of musicians do, too, because you get tendonitis, like if you hold your wrist wrong and you're playing guitar or piano or any instrument. So they teach you how to hold things in alignment so A, that you don't hurt, and B, just so everything is aligned. And part of that, if you're talking like this or talking like that, it's going to affect your vocal cords.

[David Remnick]

Okay, so teach me. I need to sit up straight.

[Terry Gross]

Well, and to breathe from the diaphragm.

[David Remnick]

Oh, like a singer.

[Terry Gross]

Like a singer, right.

[David Remnick]

I was talking to a friend at wnyc, and she said, you know, the thing you have to understand about a career like Terry Gross is that it was made possible by the fact that. That public radio paid so poorly that women came to public radio. So Cokie Roberts, Susan Stamberg and the rest, the whole All Things Considered crew, which was quite female compared to the rest of radio. True.

[Terry Gross]

Okay. There's probably some truth to that, because men could get higher salaries and public radio was brand new in the early 70s, right? Something like that, yes, in the early 70s. But there's other reasons for it. One of the reasons is named Bill Siemering, because Bill Seymering, the first vice president for programming or first head of programming, was. I mean, he was just had feminist values. And he hired Susan Stamberg and he hired other women. He wanted women on the air. And he was told, you're making a big mistake. He knew he wasn't, and he set the tone.

[Unidentified Male Voice (possibly NPR or New Yorker staff)]

There was the voice of authority from New York, male voice, reading the news, not really hearing from people. They were talking about there weren't women on the air. I don't think there were hardly any people of color on air. So I believe that if you have the diversity of the country reflected on air, you'll have a diverse audience. If people hear their own voice, their own perspective being acknowledged, they will pay attention.

[Terry Gross]

But another reason why is public radio, npr, the talent, a lot of it came from the local stations, stations like WBFO in Buffalo where I worked. And because feminism was so active on college campuses then that was like ground zero for most of the feminist movement in a lot of ways. And so feminists like me were coming to their public radio station on the college campus and getting their start there. You know, there was so like, it was the start of the new wave of the women's movement. And you were hearing that on the local public radio stations, and it helped feed NPR because that's where a lot of the talent was coming from.

[David Remnick]

You once wrote this. I often ask my guests about what they consider to be their invisible weaknesses and shortcomings. I do this because these are the characteristics that define us, no less than our strengths. What we feel sets us apart from other people is often the thing that shapes us as individuals. What do you see as your own invisible weaknesses, especially vis a vis your professional life? Well, because I don't see any.

[Terry Gross]

I admit I'm perfect, but since you asked, I'll try to.

[David Remnick]

End of discussion.

[Terry Gross]

Yeah, I think, you know, I've overcome this, but I was an inherently shy person and like, the microphone kind of liberated me to ask things and to have a power that I never felt that I had.

[David Remnick]

And it was hard at first.

[Terry Gross]

I didn't know how to do it at first, but I enjoyed it immediately.

[David Remnick]

You got off on it in a certain way.

[Terry Gross]

Well, it was like, you know, I like theater, but I'm not an actor. I like reading, but I never got to talk to authors. I love movies, and I never got to talk to the people who make them. And this was a way of doing things like that.

[David Remnick]

It's permission.

[Terry Gross]

It's permission, and it's permission. You know, I grew up socialized to be liked. You know, I'm from the generation of women where, you know, be nice, be liked, don't create a problem. And, like, suddenly, like, no, it's not about being liked. It's about doing your job, holding people accountable, asking probing questions, asking sensitive questions.

[David Remnick]

Is there any relationship between conversation and therapy? Have you ever gone through therapy at all?

[Terry Gross]

I see a therapist, and I love therapy because it's a really different relationship. And I'll try to define the difference. When you're in therapy, the therapist's job is to help me, right? To help me understand myself and get through life in as painless a way as possible.

[David Remnick]

Ideally, yes.

[Terry Gross]

And to help me think through matters that are very perplexing and that are making it hard for me to move forward. But the job of the interviewer. I'm not there to be your life coach or to help you solve your problems. I am there to help you clarify your thoughts, to help you express those thoughts, to help shape the narrative that I'm going to try to move you through and to ask you questions that I think might be helpful in maybe even in framing some new thoughts and perhaps in seeing something in a different way, but probably not. That's the best possible scenario.

[David Remnick]

But you seem uniquely able to get people to unburden themselves or be honest about themselves. I look back to an interview that you did with the great artist Maurice Sendak and his capacity to talk to you about issues, and these are issues that are run throughout your interviews about mortality and illness and dying, which are not easy to talk to about anybody, much less a stranger, over a dedicated line. It's astonishing.

[Maurice Sendak or Interviewee]

My tears flow because two great, great friends died close together, a husband and a wife who meant everything to me. And I'm having to deal with that, and it's very, very hard.

[Terry Gross]

Did they die very recently?

[Maurice Sendak or Interviewee]

Yes, she died two months ago. He died the day before yesterday. And I was, except for his son, the last person to speak with him. He was my publisher, and I loved him and I loved her.

[Terry Gross]

Are you at the point where you feel like you've outlived a lot of people who you loved?

[Maurice Sendak or Interviewee]

Of course. And since I don't believe in another world, in another life, then this, this, and when they die, they're out of my life. They're gone forever, blank, blank, blank. And I am not afraid of death.

[David Remnick]

Do you have any theory of why you become this receptacle of that kind of.

[Terry Gross]

Well, with Maurice, I mean, I'd been interviewing him over the years, so I wouldn't say we were friends, but we were interview buddies by that point. Like, we'd been through it before. But I think I kind of learned as an interviewer and as an interviewee that the way to get somebody to speak honestly and openly isn't to flatter them or to show off. It's to ask questions that show your comprehension, if you can, of the work that they've done. And show through your questions that it has deeply affected you, that it matters to you.

[David Remnick]

Terry, thank you, and thank you all. Terry Gross, the host of fresh air since 1975. We spoke at the New Yorker Festival in October 2019. Special thanks to Radio Diaries and Joe Richmond, who interviewed the NPR pioneer Bill Siemering. Right now we are living through some of the most tumultuous political times our country has ever known. I'm David Remnick, and each week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, I'll try to make sense of what's happening alongside politicians and thinkers like Cory Booker, Nancy Pelosi, Liz Cheney, Tim Waltz, Ketanji Brown Jackson, Newt Gingrich, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Charlamagne, tha God, and so many more. That's all on the New Yorker Radio Hour wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Maurice Sendak or Interviewee]

From prx.