The Challengers: The Fight for the Working-Class Vote

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Episode: The Challengers: The Fight for the Working-Class Vote

Date: July 26, 2018
Host: Dorothy Wickenden
Guest: Dan Kaufman (Journalist, author of The Fall of Wisconsin: The Conservative Conquest of a Progressive Bastion and the Future of American Politics)

---

Overview of the Episode

This installment of "The Challengers" focuses on the political transformation in Wisconsin—a state emblematic of the broader turmoil shaking up America's two major parties, especially around the issue of the working-class vote. Host Dorothy Wickenden and guest Dan Kaufman dissect the factors behind Democrats’ loss in traditionally blue Wisconsin, the ongoing power of the Tea Party movement, challenges faced by labor activists and unions, the importance of gerrymandering, and the current high-stakes Democratic primary contest between Randy Bryce (a labor activist and ironworker) and Kathy Myers (a teacher).

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Transformation of Wisconsin Politics

• Progressive Legacy Lost:
  • Wisconsin was once famed for progressive politics, environmental stewardship, and clean government.

    “It was always kind of a state driven by what I would call a kind of pragmatic idealism.” (Dan Kaufman, 03:20)

  • A major conservative shift began in 2010 with Governor Scott Walker’s election and Republican control of the state legislature.
• Legislative and Structural Changes:
  • Introduction of voter ID laws and Act 10, which stripped nearly all collective bargaining rights from public employees, leading to large-scale protests and heightened partisanship.
  • Dramatic gerrymandering cemented GOP dominance:

    “In 2012, the Democrats won 200,000 more votes for the state assembly seats in aggregate than the Republicans. And yet they lost a seat and only had 39 of 99 state legislative seats.” (D, 05:09)

• Outside Money and Political Entrenchment:
  • Influence of outside donors (notably the Koch brothers), “dark money,” and the impact of Citizens United on Wisconsin’s political landscape:

    “[Walker] was auditioning for the backing of some of these powerful conservative interests, including Charles and David Koch.” (D, 05:09)

2. Paul Ryan’s Retirement from Congress

• Multiple causes: fulfillment of policy agenda (notably the tax bill), increasing friction within GOP caucus, rising strength of the Democratic opponent Randy Bryce, and a desire to distance himself from Trump.

  “I think Bryce’s spirited challenge...was also a factor. It seemed as though there was a blue wave coming.” (D, 06:18)

3. The Democratic Primary in Ryan’s District

• Candidates:
  • Randy Bryce: Army veteran, ironworker, labor leader, cancer survivor. Supported by unions and progressive groups, active in broader social justice movements (including immigrant rights and Black Lives Matter).
  • Kathy Myers: School teacher and member of the Janesville school board, with deeper experience in local politics.
• Appeal and Platforms:
  • Both candidates share similar policy positions with differences in approach—Bryce is more outspoken on issues like abolishing ICE and has outsider, working-class appeal.

    “Randy Bryce was a labor activist, and he has the support of many of the unions, including the Wisconsin State AFL CIO… he has a lot of credibility with labor.” (D, 08:01)

  • Myers is noted for her experience and traditional political credentials.
• Electoral Dynamics:
  • The district, once safely Republican, is now surprisingly competitive, in part due to the viral success of Bryce’s campaign ad that highlighted healthcare and his own family’s struggles.

    “The video went viral and Bryce is now running a surprisingly competitive race in a district once considered a Republican stronghold.” (B, 02:51)

4. Trump, Walker, and the Politics of Division

• Both Trump and Walker have leveraged divisive rhetoric:

  “Walker and Trump are very similar…they really pitted groups of citizens against each other.” (D, 11:12)

• While Trump retains some strong support, there's growing fatigue with this politics of resentment, as described by UW-Madison professor Kathy Cramer (author of The Politics of Resentment).

5. The Erosion of Labor and Democratic Prospects

• Decline of union power and membership has undercut the Democratic base—Walker’s anti-union efforts (Act 10) and the right-to-work push in the Midwest have had tangible impacts on Democratic turnout.

  “The erosion of labor really can affect elections. A new study...said that right to work states correlate to a 3.5-point drop in Democratic turnout.” (D, 13:48)

6. Dark Money and Election Outcomes

• Massive financial imbalances in campaign funding heavily favor Republicans in the state, especially with a steady influx of untraceable, outside funds.

  “In his recall election, [Walker] had $30 million to Tom Barrett’s $4 million. And there’s been a lot of dark money flooding into Wisconsin.” (D, 13:10)

7. Gerrymandering and the Courts

• Wisconsin's extreme partisan gerrymandering was challenged in court but faced setbacks at the Supreme Court, especially with the likely confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh, weakening prospects for reform.

  “Now, with the likely confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh, that looks...probably hopeless because I doubt that he would show the same openness to...ruling against partisan gerrymandering.” (D, 16:29)

8. Democratic Strategies and Party Tensions

• The national Democratic Party wrestles with its message and the best candidates to win back working-class and Midwest voters.
• Randy Bryce’s campaign is notable for receiving both progressive (Sanders) and establishment (DCCC’s Red to Blue) endorsements.

  “Bryce is also …the only candidate in the country that has been endorsed by both Sanders and the DCCC’s Red to Blue list.” (D, 17:33)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Wisconsin’s Political Shift:

  “Wisconsin is really a microcosm for the country in so many ways. And it was an important target, I think, for conservatives because of its progressive past.”
  (Dan Kaufman, 13:48)

• On Labor’s Decline:

  “The deunionization has really hurt the Democratic Party, and I think the Republicans understood that much more clearly, whereas the Democrats didn't see the attack on labor in quite the same terms.”
  (Dan Kaufman, 14:34)

• On Democratic Party’s Crossroads:

  “I think there’s some in the Democratic Party doing this. I think there is a pretty big schism between the more establishment wing and the Sanders wing.”
  (Dan Kaufman, 17:33)

• On Political Realities:

  “Walker is interesting because he’s never really been above 50% in Wisconsin, yet he’s managed to win three elections.”
  (Dan Kaufman, 12:21)

• On the White Working Class:

  “The white working class sometimes gets cast monolithically. But there’s a progressive wing of that that has been overlooked, particularly strong in the labor movement.”
  (Dan Kaufman, 15:39)

---

Important Timestamps

• 01:16 – Episode theme & context: Wisconsin’s shift in national politics; intro to the Challengers segment.
• 02:51 – The rise of Randy Bryce and the viral impact of his campaign.
• 03:20 – Dan Kaufman describes the state’s political transformation from progressive to divided.
• 05:09 – Discussion of gerrymandering and outside political money in Wisconsin.
• 06:13 – Paul Ryan’s surprising retirement and its implications.
• 08:01 – Deep dive into Randy Bryce vs. Kathy Myers: backgrounds, union support, and campaign style.
• 11:12 – The “politics of resentment,” Trump’s base, and rising voter fatigue.
• 13:04 – Discussion of dark money in Wisconsin politics and Democratic funding challenges.
• 13:48 – Wisconsin as a national microcosm; links between labor decline and conservative victories.
• 16:29 – Gerrymandering in Wisconsin and its bleak prospects before the Supreme Court.
• 17:33 – Rifts within the Democratic Party; Bryce’s unique cross-factional endorsements.
• 18:09 – Episode wrap-up, closing reflections by Dan Kaufman and Dorothy Wickenden.

---

Conclusion

This episode offers a nuanced, in-depth look at how political, economic, and cultural changes in Wisconsin mirror the larger evolution of American politics—especially the Democratic Party’s precarious relationship with working-class voters and the enduring repercussions of union decline, gerrymandering, and dark money. Through the lens of the high-stakes Democratic primary between Randy Bryce and Kathy Myers, the episode underscores the urgency for Democrats to rebuild a coherent, competitive message that addresses the realities of a shifting electorate and hardened partisan landscape.

Transcript

[A]

As summer draws to a close and the kids go back to school, I know I'm going to want to keep in touch with my kids at a price I can afford. Back to school Shopping can be a hassle, but your phone plan shouldn't be. That's why I made the switch to Mint Mobile. For a limited time, Mint mobile is offering three months of unlimited premium wireless service for 15 bucks a month. So while other parents are sweating overage charges, I have a little bit more room in my budget for cool back to school threads. Say bye bye to your overpriced wireless plan's jaw dropping monthly bills and unexpected overages, Mint Mobile is here to rescue you. All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with all your existing contacts. Dish overpriced wireless and get three months of premium wireless service from Mint Mobile for 15 bucks a month. This year, skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Get this new customer offer and your three month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a [e-mail] New Yorker that's that's mintmobile.com New Yorker upfront payment of $45 required, equivalent to $15 a month limited time new customer offer for first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.

[B]

This is the Political Scene, a weekly conversation with New Yorker writers and editors about Politics. It's Thursday, July 26th. Dorothy I'm Dorothy Wickenden, executive editor of the New Yorker. Today is the third installment of the Challengers, a monthly segment devoted to the 2018 midterm races in states across the country. We're focusing on candidates who are new to politics as a way of discussing upheavals outside Washington and defining issues that are shaping the future of the two parties in the 2016 presidential election. Democrats lost Wisconsin for the first time in over 30 years. A few months ago, speaker of the House Paul Ryan, who is from Wisconsin, announced his retirement. Two Democrats are running from his district in next month's primary Randy Bryce, an iron worker and labor leader, and Kathy Myers, a teacher. A year ago, when Bryce announced his candidacy, he released a campaign video that began with a clip of Paul Ryan attacking the Affordable Care act and then showed Bryce talking with his mother, who has multiple sclerosis.

[C]

The system is extremely flawed. I work every day so that me and my son have insurance. I've been an iron worker for 20 years. I work hard and I earn every penny that I make. And I know everybody that I work with is the same way I've spent my entire life in southeastern Wisconsin.

[B]

The video went viral and Bryce is now running a surprisingly competitive race in a district once considered a Republican stronghold. Dan Kaufman joins me to discuss how Democrats in Wisconsin are hoping to re energize the labor movement and take back the Rust Belt. Hi, Dan. Welcome to the program.

[D]

Hi, Dorothy. Great to be on.

[B]

Let's begin by talking about your experience of Wisconsin. You grew up there. What was it like then and how has it changed?

[D]

Well, it was, I'm very fond of the state. I had an idyllic childhood here. And it was always kind of a state driven by what I would call a kind of pragmatic idealism. There was a strong progressive legacy that endured for a long time. There was a strong tradition also of environmental stewardship and clean government was emphasized. I don't know. Some of your listeners might remember a senator named Bill Proxmire, who was famous for spending about $100 on his campaigns. That has changed dramatically. You know, there were many court decisions that led to this. Buckley v. Valeo and of course, Citizens United. In 2010, Governor Scott Walker won election and, and the maybe as important, the Republicans took both houses of the state legislature and they began a dramatic transformation of the state. They instituted, they passed a voter ID law and more importantly, they passed a measure called Act 10, which stripped public employees of basically all of their collective bargaining rights. And this engendered huge protests at the state Capitol as well as a recall election that Walker won the following year. And the state has been riven pretty much ever since. There's been a lot of bitterness and division ever since then. Republicans have been very effective at kind of ensuring their political dominance.

[B]

This is indicative of the Tea Party movement. I mean, really.

[D]

Exactly.

[B]

He was, as is Paul Ryan, you know, really exemplars of what has happened in the last decade or so.

[D]

Absolutely true. And Scott Walker is somebody that I kind of call it. I think he was auditioning for the backing of some of these powerful conservative interests, including Charles and David Koch. He began doing this as Milwaukee county executive when he was working there and began a long battle with the public employee unions. There was what they had done. They passed a very dramatic gerrymandering of the state that pretty much ensured in the legislature their control. In 2012, the Democrats won 200,000 more votes for the state assembly seats in aggregate than the Republicans. And yet they lost a seat and only had 39 of 99 state legislative seats. So they have been really emboldened, the Republicans. They also have the backing of a lot of outside money, and I think they are very confident. On the other hand, Scott Walker is now running for his third term, and as you mentioned, speaker of the House Paul Ryan has decided to retire.

[B]

Let me just interrupt you there for a sec. Why is Paul Ryan retiring? This came as something of a surprise.

[D]

I think it's something of a surprise. I think there were probably a combination of factors. I'm only speculating. I think the tax bill was very, very important to him, and the passage of that was an achievement. I think his caucus was getting increasingly fracturous. The Freedom Caucus was making his life difficult. John Boehner experienced similar difficulties. Paul Ryan, you know, is an extremely conservative figure, but there were people, you know, far to the right of him. And I think that has become difficult for him. And I think, you know, it's just speculation, but I think Bryce's spirited challenge, he has raised more than $5 million was also a factor. It seemed as though there was a blue wave coming. And another example of that was thisthere was a special Senate election in the state Senate where a woman named Patty Schacter won a seat in a district that went for Trump by 18 points. And I think the state's Republicans are cognizant that they're running into some strong headwinds. And I also think Ryan is maybe a little bit wanting to distance himself from Trump. He has condemned his. Some of his outrageous racist and sexist remarks, some would argue rather tepidly. But on the other hand, he's backed his agenda pretty full throatedly well.

[B]

And he's also got the highest ambitions himself.

[D]

Exactly.

[B]

Bryce is running in the primary against Myers, the schoolteacher. Tell us a little bit about the competition between the two of them and how similar their platforms are or not.

[D]

They're pretty similar. They maybe differ a little bit on ice. Randy Brice has said he would like to abolish it. Kathy Myers has said that she didn't favor that. I think there's a difference in style as well as grassroots appeal. Randy Brice was a labor activist, and he has the support of many of the unions, including the Wisconsin State AFL cio. And even though union membership has declined a lot, this particular area of Wisconsin is still heavily unionized, relatively, and he has their backing. And he is an army veteran, a cancer survivor, and did not go to college. He actually dropped out of University of Wisconsin Milwaukee after a semester when he was diagnosed with cancer. And then he became an iron worker and has been an iron worker for 20 years. And he has a lot of credibility with labor and with a certain segment of it.

[B]

Well, and he seems very appealing to the white working class, that group whom we hear about so often in the abstract.

[D]

He does, and his ad really tapped into that. At the same time, he's also somebody that has seen labor's role and as more expansive than just protecting their jobs. He's somebody that was going to Black Lives Matter rallies, immigrant rights. He's very close to a group called Voces de la Frontera, this immigrant rights group that has challenged Ryan and Trump at rallies in Wisconsin. And he is very committed on that issue. Kathy Myers is a schoolteacher from Janesville, which is Paul Ryan's hometown, and has been elected to the school board a couple of times. She obviously has more elected political experience, and they have different styles. I think Bryce taps into the anger that came out after Act 10.

[E]

I'm Katie Drummond. I'm Wired's global editorial director.

[D]

I'm Michael Kollory, Wired's director of consumer, Tech and culture.

[B]

And I'm Lauren Good. I'm a senior correspondent at Wired. And our show, Uncanny Valley, is about the people, power and influence of Silicon Valley.

[E]

And right now, Silicon Valley and Washington have never been more intertwined. So each week we get together to talk about a big story, often at the intersection of tech and politics.

[D]

Right.

[E]

So whether we're talking about Trump, Coin Doge, or Elon Musk, we will always.

[D]

Explain how these Silicon Valley forces are.

[E]

Affecting Washington and how they affect you. Make sure you're following Uncanny Valley in your podcast app of choice so you don't miss an episode.

[B]

You've got this new book coming out about all of these issues. We're discussing about Wisconsin and what it tells us about the bigger issues confronting the country. What are you hearing about Trump? This is a farm state. It's got this eroding industrial base. The economy there is struggling and will probably struggle more in the months ahead. Howard Trump supporters responding to his presidency.

[D]

There's a woman in my book who herself wrote a wonderful book, a woman named Kathy Kramer. She's a political science professor at the University of Wisconsin. She wrote a book called the Politics of Resentment, and she talks a little bit about her experiences with people in the field and how when you vote for someone, you want to validate your choices. And I think a lot of people are still committed to Trump. That said, my experience, experience has Been, I think a fatigue a bit with this politics of division. And in a way, Walker and Trump are very similar. They have different styles and certainly Scott Walker has much better manners and presentation than Donald Trump. But they really pitted groups of citizens against each other. In Walker's case it was the public employees versus the so called taxpayers. And in Trump's case it was, you know, immigrants against, you know, Americans and other nativist appeals. I feel a sense of fatigue with that from people like a sense that that is wearing thin.

[B]

Is Walker going to win a third term?

[D]

It's very possible. There's a crowded Democratic field opposing him. A couple of people worth noting are. Kelda Royes is a state assemblywoman who has caught fire a bit. Tony Evers is the state superintendent of education. And he seems to have the biggest statewide appeal. And there's a third candidate that really represents the state's progressive roots, a man named Mike McCabe who wants to get rid of campaign spending and is not taking large donations. And there are several other candidates, but it's a crowded field. No clear frontrunner has really yet emerged. And Walker is interesting because he's never really been above 50% in Wisconsin, yet he's managed to win three elections.

[B]

And is it because in former elections there have been too many, you know, crowded field opposing him and so they.

[D]

I don't think that was the case in the other ones. I think he's been aided by a weak Democratic message of very strong support from this conservative infrastructure he raised in his recall election. He had $30 million to Tom Barrett's $4 million. And there's been a lot of dark money flooding into Wisconsin that has really determined, I would argue Ron Johnson's victory over Russ Feingold was really heavily aided by a late influx of dark money.

[B]

So here again, you know, an example of in one state of these bigger problems and also of what happened in the 2016 election.

[D]

Absolutely. Wisconsin is really a microcosm for the country in so many ways. And it was an important target, I think, for conservatives because of it progressive past. You know, Walker famously boasted in his book, he said if we can do it here, we can do it anywhere. And in a sense, they've been successful. Michigan has become a right to work state. You know, this is the home of the United Autoworkers. And the erosion of labor really can affect elections. A new study just released earlier this year said that right to work states correlate to a 3.5-point drop in Democratic turnout across the board in down ticket races as well. Grover Norquist credited Act 10 with Trump's victory in Wisconsin.

[B]

How big was Trump's victory in Wisconsin?

[D]

Very small. It was about 22,000 votes. Trump won by. So there was many factors, the voter ID law, the fact that Clinton didn't campaign here. Many things contributed, but it was. The deunionization has been really hurt. The Democratic Party, and I think the Republicans understood that much more clearly, whereas the Democrats didn't see the attack on labor in quite the same terms as people like Charles and David Koch in Bryce's campaign.

[B]

Does he talk about that? Does he talk about the role of money in determining, you know, elections?

[D]

Oh, definitely. Yes, he does. And I think Kathy Myers does as well, too. I think they're not so far apart. Policy wise. There's different styles. And I think Bryce has some of the outsider appeal that someone like Alexandria Ocasio Cortez has.

[B]

Although it's interesting because he's very much, as we were saying earlier, representative of the white working class.

[D]

He is, and he's an interesting phenomena because the white working class sometimes gets cast monolithically. But there's a progressive wing of that that has been overlooked, particularly strong in the labor movement. And you notice the importance of that. In, say, the 2008 election, the AFL CIO spent about $250 million trying to educate white working class members who, by.

[B]

The way, once were absolutely essential to the Democratic Party.

[D]

Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, the whole Democratic Party's. The Roosevelt tradition, the New Deal.

[B]

And later, as you mentioned, Wisconsin is heavily gerrymandered. And it was one of the cases, actually, that was before the Supreme Court this year. So talk a little bit about that. Given the new Supreme Court nominee, the.

[D]

Case was really, I think, very important. And I think they felt that Justice Kennedy would show favor to their argument, which was that the Democrats, the gerrymandering was so extreme that the constitutional rights of the state's Democrats were being infringed upon. The federal court had agreed with them and then it was challenged in the Supreme Court and it was sent back because they said that the plaintiffs did not have standing. They needed to find people in each district. Now, with the likely confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh, that looks, I would argue, probably hopeless because I doubt that he would show the same openness to. To ruling against partisan gerrymandering. So it's. That is a real significant challenge in Wisconsin.

[B]

Do you get the sense that leaders in the Democratic Party outside Wisconsin are looking at candidates like Bryce and Meyers and trying to figure out a more coherent winning message? For 2018 and 2020.

[D]

I think there's some in the Democratic Party doing this. I think there is a pretty big schism between the more establishment wing and say, the Sanders wing. I mean, Bryce is also one of the only candidate in the country that has been endorsed by both Sanders and the DCCC's Red to Blue list, the Democratic Congressional electoral wing. They're trying to elect Democrats and they pick certain races that are highlighted that they're trying to emphasize, and Bryce's was one. I think it signifies to some degree establishment support for his candidacy.

[B]

Okay, thanks so much, Dan.

[D]

Thank you, Dorothy. It was a pleasure speaking with you.

[B]

Dan Kaufman is the author of the Fall of the Conservative Conquest of a Progressive Bastion and the Future of American Politics. This has been the Political Scene from the New Yorker. You can subscribe by searching for the New Yorker in your podcast app and find more political analysis and commentary on new yorker.com Feel free to rate and review the political scene on Apple Podcasts. This program is produced by Alex Barron and Hannah Wilentz. For New Yorker.com I'm Dorothy Wickenden. America is changing and so is the world.

[F]

But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

[A]

Asma I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C.

[F]

I'M Tristan Redman in London, and this is the Global Story.

[A]

Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.

[F]

Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

[B]

From.

[D]

PRX.