The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Episode: The Conspiracy Theories of Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.
Date: July 10, 2023
Host: David Remnick

Episode Overview

This episode features David Remnick’s in-depth interview with Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who, despite his lack of prior elected office, is challenging Joe Biden for the 2024 Democratic presidential nomination. The conversation explores Kennedy's credentials, record as a litigator, ideological positioning, and most pointedly, his longstanding engagement with conspiracy theories—regarding vaccines, the CIA, and contemporary political crises like the war in Ukraine. Remnick and co-interviewers interrogate the credibility and repercussions of Kennedy’s views, while Kennedy pushes back, defending his skepticism of elites, his experience, and his positions as a form of challenging entrenched power.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Kennedy’s Background and Rationale for Candidacy

• RFK Jr.’s Claim to Relevance
  • Kennedy portrays himself as deeply familiar with the mechanics of government and as a career litigator against both corporations and regulatory agencies. He claims this experience uniquely equips him to unravel "the corrupt collusion between government and corporate power."

    "I think I'm in better shape probably than anybody else in the country to unravel it." —Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (04:51)

2. Critique of Public Health & COVID Policies

• Lockdowns and Economic Inequality

  • Kennedy argues that pandemic policies under Biden created “500 new billionaires” at the expense of the middle and working class.

    "Lockdowns robbed $4 trillion from the Middle class and the poor in this country and transferred it to the super rich. We created 500 new billionaires. A billionaire a day, every day." —Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (09:16)

  • Fact-Checking: Remnick notes Kennedy’s numbers are global, not U.S.-specific, and factually misleading. (10:01)

• Antagonism Toward Media and Elites

  • Kennedy accuses the press of serving as “propagandists for the government” rather than holding power to account, and equates his skepticism with populism, despite his own elite lineage.

    "You now consider [the middle class] to be deplorable." —RFK Jr. critiquing the press (11:57)
    "When I use the word elite, I'm talking about the people who are inside the Beltway defending the people that... instead have become propagandists for the government..." (12:36)

3. Relationships Across the Political Spectrum

• Kennedy’s campaign, while running as a Democrat, receives praise and amplification from far-right figures like Donald Trump, Tucker Carlson, and Alex Jones.
• He deflects questions about whether this support is problematic, repeatedly framing himself as a unifier who won’t “cancel” anyone, invoking a narrative of redemption due to his own recovery from drug addiction.

  "I'm trying to unite the country, David. I'm not going to do what you do, which is to pick out people and say that they're evil, they should be canceled or whatever." (13:53) "People are redeemable. I believe in redemption." (15:07)

4. Conspiracy Theories: The Kennedy Assassinations

• Kennedy asserts, without reservation, that the CIA was behind the assassinations of both his uncle (JFK) and, possibly, his father (RFK Sr.):

  "I could prove that my uncle's death was caused by the CIA. I have enough evidence right now... to prove that my uncle's desk was... the result of a conspiracy and that the CIA was involved..." (19:13)

5. Public Health, Vaccines, and Scientific Authority

• Kennedy, who is best known as an anti-vaccine activist, claims he is “not anti-vaccine"—insisting he advocates for “good testing and good science”—but continues to cast doubt on vaccine safety and the scientific consensus.

  "You say that scientists don't believe that. Well... I don't necessarily believe all the scientists because I can read science myself." (22:29)

• He shifts discussion to the rise in autism, insisting that if vaccines aren't the cause, then "where is it coming from?" (23:41)

  "If it didn't come the vaccines, then where is it coming from? Why isn't anybody telling us that?" (23:46)

6. Psychiatry, Medications, and Mass Shootings

• Kennedy floats the theory that SSRIs and other psychiatric medications may be linked to U.S. school shootings, referencing lawsuits but providing no convincing data.

  "So, you know, this is an issue that people have been looking at for many, many years. And unfortunately, it's really hard to understand what the impact is because we don't have good data. And the reason we don't have good data is because of HIPAA." (24:54)

• The interviewer presses the problem with a major-party candidate casually speculating on causality for public health crises without evidence:

  "Isn't that problematic to just say stuff like that without any real evidence?" (26:25) "I've said there's a lot of things that should be investigated. We should look at video games, we should look at social media. We should do science on that." —RFK Jr. (26:57)

7. Foreign Policy: Ukraine and Russia

• Kennedy’s Ukraine position is bluntly contrarian and broadly in line with Russian talking points:

  "What Putin had asked, very reasonably, is that we give a pledge not to put NATO into the Ukraine. And I don't believe there would have been a war." (28:45)

• He repeatedly dodges specifics on what a peace settlement with Russia would look like, refusing to articulate a position on whether Russia should keep parts of Ukraine or Crimea.

  "If I intend to be President of the United States, I'm not going to tell my adversary what my final negotiating position would be." (31:30)

• He references Douglas MacGregor—a commentator who has been accused of parroting Kremlin propaganda—as a preferred source on Ukraine news.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Presidential Ambition

• "There's a slight madness to thinking that you should be the leader of the free world." —David Remnick quoting Obama (01:17)

On Corporate and Government Collusion

• "The fulcrum of the problem is this corrupt collusion between government and corporate power." —RFK Jr. (03:53)

On Redemption and Cancel Culture

• "I was a heroin addict for 14 years and I, you know, I'm lucky to be alive." —RFK Jr. (15:46)
• "People are redeemable. I believe in redemption." —RFK Jr. (15:07)

On JFK Assassination

• "I could prove that my uncle's death was caused by the CIA." —RFK Jr. (19:13)

On Vaccines and Scientific Consensus

• "I don't necessarily believe all the scientists because I can read science myself. That's what I do for a living. I read science critically." —RFK Jr. (22:52)

On Ukraine

• "Putin has a legitimate national security interest in keeping the NATO out of Ukraine because he knows that we put Aegis missile systems in Romania and Poland as soon as we... wrap them into the Ukraine. And he doesn't want missile systems 400 miles from Moscow any more than we would want missile systems 400 miles from Washington, D.C." —RFK Jr. (29:11)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Kennedy’s rationale and background: 03:51–06:56
• Ideological identity and COVID policy critique: 08:50–10:37
• Relationships with right-wing figures, anti-elite rhetoric, and redemption: 10:40–15:46
• Kennedy’s addiction and recovery: 15:07–16:21
• Kennedy family assassinations and CIA conspiracy: 19:13–21:28
• Vaccines, autism, and science: 21:28–24:06
• SSRIs, psychiatric drugs, and mass shootings: 24:54–26:57
• Ukraine, Russia, and U.S. foreign policy: 28:19–33:21

Summary and Tone

Throughout the interview, Kennedy is combative but polished, portraying himself as a populist outsider and truth-teller while simultaneously invoking the privileges and traumas of his own family dynasty. He resists specifics on policy, pushes familiar themes of elite collusion and suppression, and asserts scientifically unsubstantiated or widely debunked theories with legalistic confidence.

Remnick and his colleagues challenge Kennedy directly but maintain a tone of respectful skepticism. The discussion casts Kennedy as singularly influential in propagating harmful misinformation, yet also rooted in a singular American story of trauma, recovery, and distrust of institutions—one that is resonant in today’s polarized political landscape.

For Listeners New to the Episode

This episode offers a revealing window into Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s worldview: his grievances with the political system, the media, and public health leadership; his self-positioning as a would-be reformer; and the persistent pattern in which his skepticism—sometimes justifiable, often conspiratorial—drives both his campaign and the controversy surrounding it. The conversation is essential listening for anyone interested in the undercurrents shaping the 2024 election and the uniquely American alchemy of power, trauma, and distrust.