The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Episode: The Generation Game
Date: November 12, 2015
Host: Dorothy Wickenden
Guests: Hendrik Hertzberg, Evan Osnos

Episode Overview

In this episode, Dorothy Wickenden is joined by New Yorker staff writers Hendrik Hertzberg and Evan Osnos to dissect how the concept of generational change is influencing the 2016 presidential race, particularly focusing on Marco Rubio’s positioning as the “next generation” candidate versus Hillary Clinton’s embrace of identity politics and experience. The conversation delves into the strategic use of age and generational rhetoric, the evolving role of the “gender card,” the complex politics of immigration, and the responses of college-age voters.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Generational Choice” in 2016 ([01:42] – [03:17])

• Rubio's Core Message: Rubio is consistently framing the 2016 election as a generational choice, asserting that Republicans must adapt to 21st-century challenges, especially in the economy.

  • “He is trying to make the case that in order for there to be a Republican president, they need to talk about the economy in new ways...facing a fundamentally structurally different economy than their parents’ generation faced.” – Evan Osnos [02:34]

• Threat to Clinton: Rubio is perceived as a unique threat to Clinton—not because of experience, but because he embodies a “youthful” alternative with a claim to the future.

  • Hendrik Hertzberg: While Rubio’s youth is an asset, it also raises questions of credibility, as he "looks even younger than he actually is" [03:17].
  • Dorothy Wickenden: “But youth can look callow. Won’t Hillary use that against him?” [03:53]

2. Identity Politics: Gender vs. Generation ([03:57] – [05:36])

• Clinton’s Strategy Evolution: Unlike 2008, Clinton is now “embracing the gender card,” highlighting her role as a woman, mother, and grandmother, resonating with voters seeking historic change.

  • “She talks about being a grandmother...what Rubio is trying to do...is, as Rubio puts it, 'yesterday is over.'” – Evan Osnos [04:38]

• Dueling Excitement: While Rubio’s youth represents newness, Clinton’s campaign leverages her potential as a historic first female president.

  • "The very fact that she’s female is an exciting thing...I think as election day approaches, it’s going to become more and more of a factor." – Hendrik Hertzberg [03:57]

3. Immigration as a Party Dividing Line ([05:36] – [08:01])

• Rubio’s Challenge: Rubio is depicted as walking a tightrope—once for comprehensive reform, now straddling hardline policies pressed by Trump’s influence.

  • “Immigration is going to turn out to be...a kind of MRI issue that peers into the soul of the party.” – Evan Osnos [06:04]

• Republican Stance: The discussion notes the “hysteria” in the primary—no candidate downplaying the issue, despite data illustrating declining undocumented immigration.

  • “No Republican is saying, look, this isn’t that big a deal. Our real problem is economic, and then just kind of pivot to something else instead. Everyone has sort of signed onto the idea that this is an occasion for hysteria.” – Hendrik Hertzberg [07:24]

4. Historical Precedents: Experience vs. Hope ([08:46] – [10:21])

• Classic Lines Compared:

  • Ronald Reagan’s 1984 zinger about Mondale’s “youth and inexperience” [08:57]
  • The subsequent victories of younger candidates (Bill Clinton in 1992, Obama in 2008) show “experience” isn’t always a winning card.

• Shifting Roles: Clinton is repackaging herself (from “mother” in 2008 to “grandmother” in 2016), presenting a warmer, more relatable persona.

  • “If you think of her as a grandmother, you think of a cute little baby bouncing on grandma’s knee, and it’s a much warmer thing.” – Hendrik Hertzberg [09:28]
  • "One can almost imagine Hillary being able to get away with patting Marco Rubio on the head and saying, 'That’s a good boy.'" – Hendrik Hertzberg [10:16]

5. Campus Perspectives & The Enthusiasm Gap ([10:21] – [12:06])

• Student Detachment: At Dartmouth, students from both left and right display tepid interest in the field. There’s “quiet satisfaction” for Clinton among liberals, but nowhere near the excitement that surrounded Obama.

  • “Neither the Dartmouth Review kids nor their equivalent on the left are excited about this election...nobody has caught their imagination.” – Hendrik Hertzberg [11:18]

• Support for Clinton: Even Bernie Sanders’ supporters expect to back Clinton eventually, but without fervor.

6. Rubio as “GOP Obama” ([12:06] – [13:58])

• Media & Party Comparisons: Rubio’s profile—first-term senator, lawyer, rapid presidential run—draws parallels to Obama, leading critics to call him a “GOP Obama.”

  • “One of the biggest knocks on Rubio among his fellow Republicans is that they say he is a, quote, GOP Obama.” – Evan Osnos [12:22]
  • Osnos notes that while Rubio attempts to generate “inspiration,” he hasn’t yet achieved Obama’s level of grassroots enthusiasm.

• A Quote on Perception: “He might fall victim to that great quip of Michael Kinsley’s about Al Gore. He’s an old person’s idea of a young person.” – Hendrik Hertzberg [13:31]

• Audience Effect: Rubio resonates more with older voters at rallies than with younger or diverse crowds.

7. Rubio’s Foreign Policy Positioning ([13:58] – [15:05])

• More Hawkish than Most: Rubio calls for a strong military and maintaining America’s unique global role, differentiating himself from less interventionist voices like Rand Paul.
  • “He talks...about the need to maintain America’s exclusive and unique role in the world and to ‘rebuild the military.’” – Evan Osnos [14:00]
• Generational Irony: Although Rubio promotes generational change domestically, his foreign policy vision is cast as more traditional, aligning with older Republican ideals.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “This election is actually a generational choice, a choice about what kind of nation we will be in the 21st century.”
  – Marco Rubio (quoted by Dorothy Wickenden) [01:42]

• “It’s a silk purse sow’s ear argument in a sense. I mean, the problem with Rubio is that he’s inexperienced and young and wet behind the ears. And in fact, he looks even younger than he actually is.”
  – Hendrik Hertzberg [03:17]

• “Immigration is going to turn out to be, in its own way, a kind of MRI issue that peers into the soul of the party.”
  – Evan Osnos [06:04]

• “No Republican is saying, look, this isn’t that big a deal. Our real problem is economic...Everyone has sort of signed onto the idea that this is an occasion for hysteria.”
  – Hendrik Hertzberg [07:24]

• “He’s an old person’s idea of a young person.”
  – Hendrik Hertzberg, via Michael Kinsley on Al Gore (applied to Rubio) [13:31]

• “What Obama managed to achieve in 2008...was this almost kind of celestial sense of possibility and expectation. That’s clearly what the Rubio campaign is trying to do...but there really isn’t that electric feeling of inspiration that comes around so rarely in politics.”
  – Evan Osnos [12:31]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:42 – 03:17: Rubio’s “generational choice” narrative introduced and dissected
• 03:53 – 05:36: Gender vs. generational excitement in campaign strategy
• 05:36 – 08:01: Immigration’s role in the GOP race and party identity
• 08:46 – 10:21: Historical precedents—how age and “hope” have played in past elections
• 10:21 – 12:06: Dartmouth student perspectives on the enthusiasm gap
• 12:06 – 13:58: Rubio as “GOP Obama”—strengths and skepticism
• 13:58 – 15:05: Rubio’s foreign policy stances and generational messaging

Tone and Style

• The conversation is informed, analytical, and laced with characteristic New Yorker wit.
• Each speaker is candid and occasionally wry, employing lightly sardonic humor (Hertzberg) and observational detail (Osnos) to enrich the political analysis.
• The mood is engaged but not breathlessly excited, paralleling the nonchalance described among student voters.