← The Political Scene | The New Yorker
The Political Scene | The New Yorker
The “Melania” Documentary Offers an Intimate Look at Very Little
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- [00:07]
A
Hey, Lauren.
- [00:08]
B
Hi, Tyler. Thanks for having me on.
- [00:10]
A
Yeah, thanks so much for being here. Would you say that there is a particular image or scene from the Melania documentary that either intentionally or unintentionally captures the first lady's essence? Ooh.
- [00:26]
B
You know, this is the thing that is fascinating about the film. It's more the absence of a scene that captures the first lady's essence. What I was totally fascinated by is, you know, this film, she had creative control, could have put anything in it that she wanted us to see. Right. And it is entirely formal, entirely rigid, entirely like whatever the opposite of behind the scenes is. You know, it's all kind of like on stage. I just thought it was fascinating. I was like. Kept waiting for the kind of, like, accessible, humanizing, kind of, like, downtime moment where you were gonna see her, like, in her exercise clothes or, like, eating a yogurt or, I don't know what, walking a dog. I don't think she has one, but something. And I just kept, like, anticipating that scene that was gonna come, and it was gonna make us see Melania in a way that we've never seen her before and it never happened. So that made an impression on me, was kind of like even, you know, given every opportunity to either document or conjure one Melania and, you know, her hand pick. Makers of this film chose to present her as we've always seen her, which is like a lady in a hat that doesn't show her eyes.
- [01:43]
A
I think that is the perfect description of the movie. That's Lauren Collins, a staff writer at the New Yorker. Last week, Amazon MGM Studios released a documentary about Melania Trump. Despite low early tracking, the film performed relatively well at the box office for a documentary, while drawing sharp criticism from reviewers who described it as both an advertisement for Melania's personal brand and a piece of political propaganda. The film has been shadowed by controversy, including reports that a large portion of the crew asked to have their names removed from the credits and criticism of its director, Brett Ratner, who's had multiple accusations of sexual abuse and assault, although he's denied those accusations. I wanted to talk with Lauren about what the documentary reveals or fails to reveal about Melania Trump, why it's so difficult to get a sense of who Melania is or what she believes and her tenures as first lady of the United States. This is the political scene. I'm Tyler Foggatt, and I'm a senior editor at the New Yorker. So you've done a lot of our listeners a service by watching this film so that they don't have to do it themselves. What would you say that it was actually about? Like, obviously, it's about Melania, but what was the narrative through line, to the extent that there was one, I don't know.
- [03:00]
B
It's hard to say. There's not much of a narrative, but there is kind of a conceit or a premise or a parameter, which is that it was shot in the 20 days leading up to Trump's second inauguration. So that, I think, is supposed to, you know, this timeline and this ticking clock is supposed to endow it with some inherent drama or kind of, like with a puzzle or a problem to solve. Melania has to pick out her outfit, and Melania has to plan a dinner for these big Trump donors. But, you know, I was talking to another colleague who had seen it, and he remarked, and I thought this was so true, that the film is almost like avant garde in its lack of pleasure. It doesn't resort at all to these things that, like, you know, as I was saying before, in suspense, really, in drama, in these devices that art typically uses to, you know, bring pleasure and excitement and investment to the beholder. It was like Washington. Yeah. I mean, the film is also, in addition to having this, like, glamorous veneer, it's kind of like there's just not a lot of joy. You know, you feel like you're watching, like, Lars von Trier do the inauguration or something.
- [04:17]
A
Yeah, no, I think that's totally true in terms of, like, the creation of drama. Like, there was that brief moment at the beginning where, you know, she's kind of explaining how she wants her coat for the inauguration to be tailored, and it seems like they're not gonna be able to do it exactly that way. Obviously, they're able to in the end, and so it works out. But, like, that was kind of the extent to which there was drama in the film, which I found to be really, really strange. Cause, like, regardless of whether you're, like, a fan of Melania or Trump, like, there are clear, like, major things that have happened in her life during his presidency that it would have been interesting to see her react more to. Were you surprised, like, at how they dealt with the fact that there have been attempts on Trump's life? I thought that was gonna be kind of, like, the heart of the film. And she mentioned it a couple times, but it was in the stilted voiceover. Like, it was a little weird.
- [05:08]
B
Yeah. So voiceovers really, really sapped the film of what little kind of, like, intimacy and, you know, Surprisingness it might have shown. Okay, just. Let's do. Let's. Tyler, I think that we need to discuss the kind of, like, dressmaking scene. Let's do it like that scene. You know, as I wrote in my piece, Brett Ratner, the director who's known for the Rush Hour films, was basically trying to make, like, Rush Hour four out of rush alterations, and it wasn't really coming together. But that scene was not without potential. Right. Look, this is not one of the primary, secondary, or even tertiary questions bedeviling American democracy right now, but I would have liked to know, just out of human curiosity, why she did choose the hat that obscured her entire face for the inauguration. I'm curious. I want it. I'm. Whatever people want to know. And so we have this whole boring scene dedicated to her outfit and, like, none of her. It's just, again, all surface. Yeah, it's superficial. It's fashion. But, like, you can go deeper with that. It could have actually said something about why she chose this stuff, what it meant to her, what she was trying to convey, what she wanted to represent and communicate on this big day. And there was nothing. I mean, I spent, you know, and you did, too. I don't know, 7, 9, 11 minutes of my life watching the. The inauguration outfit scene and emerged no wiser as to why, you know, that was like that. And the turtleneck went. And anyway, I mean, it just seemed like a missed opportunity. I would have actually liked to have known what the thinking was behind, you know, her image making.
- [06:55]
A
Totally. When she puts on the hat, you kind of think that you're finally going to get an explanation for why she chose the hat, Even if it's, like, in that red carpet way where it's just, like, a couple sentences as to why she was inspired to do it, because it is, like, a very interesting fashion choice for that kind of event. But there was nothing on that. Yeah, it was more just about, like, bring in, like, the waist a little bit tighter. It was like the clothes had already been decided. There wasn't actually, like, any kind of discussion of why she's dressing in that way. Even though there's this long history of, like, you know, people kind of focusing on the style of the first lady, and. And, you know, she was a former model. Like, if she wanted to make an entire documentary, like, about her fashion and her choices, like, that would kind of be like, ASMR for me, like, I'd be okay with that. But we didn't even really get that.
- [07:37]
B
And we should know that Michelle Obama has Actually just published an entire book called, I believe the look about, like, her trying to give some context to how she was using fashion to communicate as. As first lady and later. So anyway, I mean, again, like, even the most superficial scenes are totally without, you know, anything more to bring to the table. So I was. I was surprised by that. I mean, I thought it was, like, going in, I was like, oh, it's just like a distraction tactic instead of talking about anything real, like the fact that Melania herself is an immigrant and she's surrounded by an entourage of immigrants in the midst of this violent crackdown on immigration that her husband is leading. But, you know, we're not going to talk about that. We're going to go really, really deep on the outfit. And not even that happened. So, yeah, that was kind of shocking.
- [08:28]
A
Do you think that there was, like, an intended audience for this documentary? Because I initially thought the answer was just, like, Trump supporters, but then when I saw it in New York the other day, there was, like, an audience of maybe a dozen people, and a few of them were actually wearing, like, Trump stuff. So, like, I could credibly tell that they were maga. And a guy in a MAGA hat actually walked out during the second scene of Melania in front of a mirror trying on her, like, inauguration ball gown. And at that point, Trump hadn't appeared in the film. And Trump barely appears in the film. And I think he could kind of tell that that was maybe what the vibe was gonna be. There were a couple of people who applauded at the end. It kind of reminded me of, like, when you've been on a really turbulent flight and, like, the passengers clap for the pilot after he lands the plane. But, yeah, I just don't really understand, like, who this documentary is.
- [09:16]
B
Well, I think, like, to answer that question, we should first back up a little bit and talk about the economics of the film. Yeah, so it was made by Amazon. Amazon spent $75 million on this film, and that doesn't even include production costs. So we're talking 40 million to Melania's production company, of which she reportedly personally pocketed 28 million and 35 million more on marketing, which has provided, for instance, the personalized popcorn buckets that you will see at theaters and the, you know, posters that are everywhere. Why did this film get made and what was it intended to do is a very valid question. I mean, just to give you some more context, the second highest bid, which was from Disney, came in $26 million lower than Amazon's. So I don't know that what Amazon spent on this film, you know, reflects market reality. And I think we have to, you know, ask did it really get made to appeal to a broad swath of the American public, or did it get made for political reasons? I think very, very valid question. That said, you know, it had a pretty respectable opening weekend. I think it brought in between 7 and 8 million. You know, this varied radically from region to region and amongst demographics. I think it was women over 55, to answer your question, who are, you know, really flocking.
- [10:47]
A
Those were the women who were clapping at my theater. I will say it was. It was like older women.
- [10:51]
B
This was the best start for a documentary, excluding concert films, in 14 years since the nature film Chimpanzee debuted. Yet it was nowhere near, you know, the top movie. So it came in third on the weekend box office. So, like, it was nowhere near the first and second movies of the weekend, which were a horror thriller called Send Help and another horror movie called Iron Lung. So, anyway, this is a documentary that, for one reason or another, has completely outlying means behind it. And with a huge leg up, it's doing pretty well for a documentary.
- [11:30]
A
Can you talk a little bit more about the production of the movie and sort of the people involved with it? Like you mentioned earlier that the director was Brett Ratner, who was for the Rush Hour series, but also, you know, he's known for having been accused of sexual abuse and assault in 2017, although I should note that he has denied those accusations. Can you tell us more about the team that was working on this documentary?
- [11:55]
B
So, right. Brett Ratner was accused of sexual abuse by, I believe, about 10 women. And as you said, he denies it. He hasn't really worked in movies since that happened. And from what I gather, you know, he's kind of a fixture at Mar a Lago. I think he's living there now. He cozied up to the Trumps one way or another, and they picked him to direct this movie for his big comeback. I think Trump's also been lobbying for a Rush Hour for. But so, yeah, Brett Ratner, you know, the Trumps kind of pardoned him from, you know, movie industry exile and brought him to make this film. And then, you know, there were a number of, like, pretty distinguished movie business veterans working on this. However, they seem to kind of be like, running for the exits now that the film has actually come out. I read some reporting in Rolling Stone that said something like two thirds of them have asked to have their names removed from the credits. So, yeah, they had a Lot of money. They had an extreme, experienced team. And again, I think what is just, you know, really important and interesting to keep in mind is that Melania was an executive producer and had total control. So what you're seeing in this film is, for better or worse, exactly what she wanted you to see.
- [13:21]
A
What's unfortunate is, like, it seems like there is an interesting documentary to be made about Melania, and we just maybe were never meant to get one. Would you agree with that? Like, what things would you have liked to see the movie do more with? Or even what things did you just kind of expect would be in there? Because they're kind of a core part of how we understand her. Like, just thinking about how she's an immigrant, for example, I feel like you could watch that entire movie and maybe not even. I mean, it's clear from, like, the accent, but it's not like she's talking about her childhood in that way.
- [13:51]
B
Well, you know, I talked about, like, the conspicuous absence of casual kind of, like, scenes that would help to get us to know Melania better. But something else that really struck me is, like, usually in a film like this, particularly one that's gonna have a very soft touch and present its subject in kind of the rosiest way possible, you would absolutely expect that it would lean heavily on archival material. But in Melania, we're told, for instance, you know, her father makes a short appearance, and we're told that he's an avid videographer, yet we do not see, like, a single baby picture of Melania. We don't family mementos. We don't see any of this kind of stuff. This just, like, low hanging, you know, emotionally accessible stuff that you would expect a documentary that's also kind of, you know, a biography to use and to deploy to its own advantage. So I just thought. I mean, I thought that was super interesting that, you know, Melania was born in what was then Yugoslavia in 1970. She was raised in this communist apartment block. She came to the US as a model on an H1B visa for highly skilled workers, which, by the way, is a program that Trump has gutted, and he's now charging $100,000 for applications for those visas. So I don't know. I don't know if it's that. Her biography very quickly gets into issues that become thorny and hypocritical. I have to believe that, again, because we are seeing what Melania wants to see. She's not somebody who's trying to let people in, who's trying to be Relatable. And she's very discreet. You know, she just doesn't let her guard down in any way. So, yeah, I just, I thought it was, like, really, really interesting that she chose not to tell us much more about herself, whether that is for political reasons or, you know, personal ones. But we don't learn much more about her than what we already know.
- [15:51]
A
Yeah, I feel like I know less about her now that I've seen the film. Like, I feel like I understand her and her role even less than I did before, which is, like, saying a lot because I didn't feel like I understood her much before I watched the film. Let's take a quick break, and then when we return, I want to talk more about Melania's biography and her tenure as first lady. This is the political scene from the New Yorker.
- [16:25]
C
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- [17:24]
A
So, Lauren, let's talk a little bit about Melania herself. And, you know, some of the stuff that didn't actually make it into the film. You wrote a profile of her that appeared in the magazine in May of 2016, which was before Trump was actually elected for the first time. And it was also before Melania seemingly plagiarized sections of a Michelle Obama speech during the 2016 RNC, as well as before Trump's Access Hollywood tape scandal. So it was kind of like, you know, there was a lot of interesting stuff that would come sort of after the piece came out. But when you were working on that story, what was your understanding of who Melania was and what kind of first lady she'd potentially be?
- [18:01]
B
Okay, well, yes, I was. I was a little early to the Melania party, but I was really interested in her for a few reasons. One of them is, you know, as we discussed the fact that. That she's an immigrant, I mean, I thought, like, let's just establish Trump's entire life, you know, he's been surrounded by dependent on immigrant women have characterized his life. So his mother, Mary, was an immigrant from Scotland. His first wife, Ivana, was a Czech immigrant. She immigrated from what was then Czechoslovakia. And Melania was born in what was then Yugoslavia, is now Slovenia, and eventually became an American Citizen. But so 2016 election, this is when Trump, he's been questioning Barack Obama's citizenship with all the birther stuff, he is ranting about letting immigrant rapists and criminals into the country. And so I wrote, thinking about these women in his life, that if he really wanted to keep immigrants out, he should have built a wall around his pants. I mean, it was just so. So hypocritical. So typical Trump, like, one rule for everybody else and another for me. And so I was just, like, you know, really interested in her story and how Trump sort of, like, branded her as, like, you know, another one of his properties, and she took on all these aspects of his life. But this wasn't, like, reciprocal at all. I mean, there's no evidence that he's gotten to know her culture, her language. I don't know what the case is now, but at the time, when I wrote in 2016, he had been to Slovenia, her home country, one time, for three hours before they got married. He, like, had a Diet Coke, an onion Escalope, met her parents, and got right back in the plane and took off. And so, yeah, I was just fascinated by how someone who comes from such a different background and who has personal lived experience of so many of the things that Trump from then on has been so cruel about and ignorant of. I mean, I kind of thought of it. I think I wrote this at the time, but it was like she took on all his attributes. It was like the marital version of people who look like their dogs. She internalized, like, his ahistoricism, his just, like, shamelessness, this unblinking ability to say things that everybody knows are not true, and also these false dichotomies between, you know, these murderous criminals and deserving citizens like her. You know, I kind of got into her immigration story, right? Beginning with this H1B visa that is no longer available and accessible to so many, you know, young immigrants like her. And her answer was like, I never thought about breaking the rules. Like, you have to follow the rules, and, you know, you get on a plane to Europe and fly back if that's what you need to do.
- [21:05]
A
So what stands out to you from Melania's first tenure as first lady, or how would you characterize it?
- [21:12]
B
I mean, I think Melania's first tenure is, of course remembered for, like, you know, there were the memes, there were the creepy Christmas decorations. I think, honestly, what she'll probably be most remembered for is wearing the I really don't care, do you? Army jacket on a trip to unbelievably visit a detention center for child migrants. But, you know, I guess if you ask Melania, I think her focus in her first term was the strangely superlatively named Be Best initiative, which was meant to combat bullying and online abuse, both of which I think are very, you know, noble causes. However, somewhat undercut by the fact that her husband is probably the world's biggest online bully and abuser.
- [22:03]
A
And I will say just one thing about that jacket. Like, my memory is that it was like a jacket from Zara that was, like, less than $40. And after having watched the documentary, I am, like, more sure than I ever was that, like, that jacket was an intentional decision because, like, she clearly wears designer clothing almost exclusively and she puts a lot of thought into, like, what she's wearing on a given day. There's no way that she was just wearing that.
- [22:28]
B
I want to know, like, Tyler, one day we will get to the bottom of this. Maybe in Melania, the documentary, part two. But, like, how did she source that thing? I mean, Melania is not, like, at the King of Prussia Mall rifling through the racks of Zara. Do you think it was her algorithm? It was like, like, you know, adjacent to, like, migrant detention, likes fashion. How about I really don't care to you like, Zara jacket? I mean, where did that come from? It remains a mystery.
- [23:05]
A
Yeah, just like, everything about her, but. Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. I actually. It's not like she was walking by Zara one day and saw it. Right.
- [23:13]
B
If the only achievement of the film were either to answer questions about the jacket, I would have left a very satisfied popcorn munching customer.
- [23:22]
A
However, that would be worth $40 million.
- [23:25]
B
Neither of those levels nor many others.
- [23:28]
A
So what you were saying about Melania taking on these different attributes of Trump, like his shamelessness, and you even, I think, mentioned in the piece that Melania has, like, a tendency to exaggerate. Like, she described her mother as a fashion designer who worked in the industry for a long time, whereas she was actually an employee at a state owned textile factory in Slovenia for more than 30 years.
- [23:48]
B
She was, she was a pattern maker.
- [23:50]
A
So, I mean, do you think that that is, like, kind of the key to understanding her relationship with Trump? Like, her willingness to kind of go along with it and play the role that she needs to play. Because I was kind of hoping that the documentary would shed some insight on their relationship, which I think, like, you know, I think there's, like, a subset of people, particularly liberals, who, like, kind of imagine that Melania and Trump's marriage is just hanging on by a thread and that this has been kind of buttressed by the awkward scenes of them, like, you know, like, her not wanting to hold his hand or even, like, at the inauguration when he's struggling to kiss her under the hat, which is, like, another thing that I would have appreciated, like, a joke about or some, like, discussion of whether the hat was, like, gonna get in the way of things.
- [24:32]
B
Right. Whether the hat was, like, a dawn blocker or not. No. I mean, no. Like, what do I know after watching Melania? But I do think that is a liberal fantasy in a way. I mean, they do not seem to spend much time together, either in the film or life. But, you know, from everything she's ever said, she seems to be very proud of him and to be totally on board, you know, even in the seemingly, like, most sensitive areas, where you would think, again, like, she might have a different view, you know, whether she's private about it or not. No, this film gives no suggestion that she has any qualms or reservations or hesitations about any part of his project.
- [25:24]
A
I will say I was interested when she came out with her memoir not that long ago, that there was, like, this passage that a lot of people were kind of, like, freaking out about, which was her kind of coming out as someone who is receptive to the idea of a woman's right to choose. And I guess that makes me wonder what your sense is of what her priorities or convictions are, if there are any, including that one that kind of of make her kind of stand apart from Trump. Do we have a sense of that stuff, like, at all, beyond, like, that one line in the memoir? Basically, no.
- [25:57]
B
I mean, do you seriously, like, I want to have a conversation about this, because. Okay, so she did choose to include an encounter with Aviva Siegel, who was a freed Hamas hostage, who at that moment was lobbying for the liberation of her husband, who was still being held. And again, like, not a lot of substance. I mean, I would say the fact that she chose to put it in the film suggests that she wants to, you know, make a show of support for Israel and for the hostages. But in the conversation, you know, she sits down with the woman who has clearly been through a great deal of trauma and the conversation very quickly turns to her T shirt. And it's just like, you know, the woman becomes a prop in this set piece about Melania showing empathy. And she says, oh, it's a great T shirt. You know, it's got her husband's face on it. Isn't he beautiful? And it becomes kind of another fashion moment. So this film, I think, like, Melania herself is very, very light on substance, light on details. No, did not illuminate much to me about the inter policy wonk in Melania, and I would be surprised to what extent that is her interest.
- [27:25]
A
Yeah, I did not get a good sense from the film or even from anything she's ever said over time about her political priorities. I do feel like the thing that came out was at least her desire to be perceived as a good mom and, you know, kind of like an ally to women. Like, I almost read that scene with, you know, the woman whose husband was still being held hostage is like, her kind of, like, reaching, you know, across to, like, another woman and trying to help her out and to advocate for her. And, yeah, it's interesting. Cause, like, I would have loved more scenes of Baron, and there was barely any.
- [28:04]
B
Yeah, we should note that per the postscript at the end of the film, Melania's advocacy on her behalf helped to secure the release of her husband, per the film. But, yeah, I mean, again, that's what I found so interesting. See, I don't know about that, Tyler, the maternal stuff, because how easy would it have been just to, like, you know, cook up some scene of a birthday party? Like, you know, some. There was no family time at all. And so Barron does appear a few times. Barron is the son that Melania and Trump share. I think he's about 20 now. But another thing that was really striking is all of her stepchildren. So Donald's children, by other marriages, I mean, they do not get so much as a mention. And so I didn't come away with this picture of, like, a unified, happy family spending a lot of time hanging out together. I mean, in a way, maybe the film was quite honest, because I just thought to myself, how easy would it be to just contrive something? And for one reason or another, she didn't.
- [29:18]
A
Yeah, I feel like you don't really see her mothering Baron or even acting as, like, a kind of maternal figure to Ivanka and the other Trump children. But when she spoke about Barron and how proud she is of him and, like, the reception that he received at the Capitol One arena after the inauguration, I Feel like it was the only time that her voice actually kind of came alive. And you could tell that she was genuinely, like, so proud and happy that, like, the people like him. And, like, there's that scene where it's like, before the inauguration starts, and she's, like, watching the news coverage from, like, her dressing room, and the news anchors are talking about how tall Baron is, and you can tell she's, like, really likes that. And so even if we don't necessarily see her raising him, you can tell that she derives a lot of pleasure from, like, the man he is today. Even if we don't necessarily see much of that man, it's really just like, he's tall and kind of quiet.
- [30:11]
B
Right. I mean, there's one scene that was really a little sad when I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think she's on the phone with her husband and she's kind of, like, trying to sell Baron to him. I mean, she's like, you know, Barron's hype man to his dad and going, he's got an incredible mind. And it doesn't seem that Trump is really. I think Trump calls him cute, but it's like she's trying to, like, pitch him to the dad or just, like, say, isn't he great? And. Yeah, I don't know. It was just. I was really surprised that, again, these are the scenes that, like, someone would choose to represent herself and her family.
- [30:57]
A
Yeah. No, it's the fact that she had kind of full creative control, and yet this is, like, the image that she's left us with is very, very strange. I'm never going to stop thinking about it, honestly. We'll have more of the political scene from the New Yorker in just a moment.
- [31:27]
D
Come see Critics at large live. On February 19th, we're gonna be at the 92nd Street Y in New York City for a conversation about Wuthering Heights. There's a new adaptation coming up starring Margot Robbie and Jacob Elordi, and we will certainly be getting into that, but we'll also do what we humbly. I'll say what we do best. Returning to the text, we're gonna go deep on the gothic and Emily Bronte. Join me, Vincent Cunningham and my co hosts Alex Schwartz and Nomi Fry for the discussion. And crucially, if you buy a VIP ticket, you'll join us for an after party, too. Go to 92ny.org for more information. That's 92ny.org hope to see you there.
- [32:26]
A
Let's talk a little bit about, like, what Melania has actually done on paper during Trump's second term. I'm actually pulling up. My theater was, like, pretty empty, aside from, like, those few MAGA people, the ones who didn't walk out. And so I took a couple of, like, photos of, like, the coda at the end, just because I was like, I haven't heard about a lot of these things. Like the first lady champion. The Take It Down Act, a new federal law protecting victims from AI generated non consensual intimate imagery.
- [32:54]
B
You know what, Tyler? I champion that too. I think that is. I think that's something Melania and I can agree on.
- [33:01]
A
Yeah, no, it's hard to quibble with that one. And then there's a lot of the. Like, her support of the foster care community, which is part of the Be Best initiative, which is something that's mentioned a couple times in the film. As you mentioned, the Melania Trump played a key role in securing the release of Keith Siegel after 484 days as a hostage in Gaza just 12 days after the inauguration. Yeah, you. You watch that and you kind of think there's all this stuff about, like, AI. They also mentioned the fact that, you know, she had this New York Times bestselling biography, Melania. But, like. Yeah, I mean, that made it seem as though it really was kind of like a. A project that was meant to project this image of her as being someone who's, like, really key and vital in the administration, even though the movie itself, like, the actual footage doesn't suggest that at all.
- [33:48]
B
The movie, it's really weird. It was like. And again, like, when you have total control. There was this one. There were a few just, like, uncanny, like, incoherent moments in the film. And I thought, like, did anybody watch this? You know, I remember at one point there's this kind of laudatory sequence about, like, all the great things that Melania has done at the White House. And she goes, during my last, you know, term or whatever, I restored the Rose Garden. And there's a picture of the Rose Garden, which we know was. Which we all know was recently raised. And then there's this other moment where she's like, one of my goals is to evolve the role of first lady beyond formal social duties. And then it cuts to a literal golden egg dinner, like a black tie ball that she has organized where the first course is, I kid you not, golden eggs with caviar. As if that weren't enough, but. So it's just like, really, really strange. The incoherence and the kind of, like, lack of attention. And, I mean, I had the same feeling that I did at one of planning scenes when there's an interior designer who says that she was born in Laos, she came to the US at the age of two. And then she launches into this big soliloquy about Trump's presidency and the American dream and how great it is being an immigrant in America, like, totally straight faced in the middle of this violent crackdown. And so, yeah, I had to think about thinking about these just inconsistencies and these downright sort of. I hate this word, but, like, it really did come to mind these, like, gaslighting moments where they say one thing and then, you know, that there is, like, a totally different reality. And I could only come to the conclusion that, yeah, Melania was using this kind of rhetorical and propagandistic technique, really, that Trump loves so much, which is just to, like, say something with such taunting mendacity that you just, just don't know what to make of it.
- [35:52]
A
And as you mentioned in the piece, it's like, it's unlikely that viewers would have bought this at any time. But it's especially weird to watch this movie given what's happening right now. I mean, we. I think we're all very much aware of, like, what's happening in Minneapolis and around the country with ice, but even just like, the other kind of crazy things that are happening in the background of this documentary, like what's happening at the Washington Post and Amazon and Ratner, too. I mean, could you talk a little bit more about just, like, the context in which we are receiving this documentary?
- [36:23]
B
Right, so, like, the golden egg is being hatched at a moment when, you know, Jeff Bezos is just, like, trashing this American journalistic institution, the Washington Post. Apparently 16,000 jobs are being cut at Amazon, yet he's like, you know, frolicking around Paris Fashion Week and there's this, you know, big, gaudy launch for Melania's film. So, yeah, I think it came at, like, a really infelicitous and tricky time for her. But, you know, if it wasn't this, it was gonna be that. I mean, when has something not been going on that wouldn't highlight the incredible, like, inequity in American life? And, yeah, I don't know that, like, any other weekend would have made for a less disturbing juxtaposition, let's say.
- [37:17]
A
I mean, they at least could have timed it so that the documentary doesn't come out, like, right. As, you know, the American people are getting access to the latest Epstein files in which, you know, Ratner is in these photographs sharing a couch with Epstein and two female companions. It's like the timing actually seems. You're right that no timing would have been great, but it seems particularly bad.
- [37:40]
B
You know what, Like, I retract. This was. This was the worst weekend. So I think you may be right about that. But yeah, there was this, like, you know, White House premiere with, like, customized, you know, all the food was black and white to match the, you know, aesthetics of the film. And there were, like, some fancy people there, but really kind of a strange smattering of guests from Amazon bosses to Queen Rania of Jordan and Mike Tyson. I mean, a real motley crew. I mean, the. The timing was not good.
- [38:19]
A
Well, on that note, thank you again for. For talking us through this film. And yeah, I guess we can look forward to it being on. On streaming.
- [38:26]
B
Tyler, it was a pleasure. And maybe we can watch together next.
- [38:29]
A
Time with our Melania Popcorn buckets.
- [38:33]
B
Exactly.
- [38:37]
A
Lauren Collins is a staff writer for the New Yorker. You can find her latest piece, Melania is a $40 million journey into the void at new yorker.com this has been the political scene from the New Yorker. I'm Tyler Foggatt. This episode is produced by John Lamay with mixing by Mike Kutchman and engineering by Pran Bandy. Our executive producer is Stephen Valentino. Our theme music is by Alison Layton Brown. Thanks so much for listening. We'll be back next Wednesday.
- [39:16]
E
Right now, we are living through some of the most tumultuous political times our country has ever known. I'm David Remnick, and each week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, I'll try to make sense of what's happening alongside politicians and thinkers like Cory Booker, Nancy Pelosi, Liz Cheney, Tim Waltz, Ketanji Brown Jackson, Newt Gingrich, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Charlemagne, tha God, and so many more. That's all on the New Yorker Radio Hour wherever you listen to podcasts.
- [39:47]
B
From prx.