The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Episode: The Party Positions on Immigration

Date: August 21, 2015
Host: Emilia Lester
Guests: Dorothy Wickenden (Host), John Cassidy (Staff Writer), Ryan Lizza (Staff Writer), Jeffrey Toobin (Staff Writer)

Overview

This episode of "The Political Scene" revisits the fraught debate over immigration in American politics, sparked by then-candidate Donald Trump but reaching deeper into Democratic and Republican party divisions. The episode features highlights from previous New Yorker discussions, offering historical perspective, legal analysis, and political strategy insights. Key themes include the nature of Obama’s immigration executive actions, Republican responses, public opinion, and the critical role of the courts in shaping the legacy of immigration policy heading into the 2016 election.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Obama’s Immigration Action vs. Past Reforms

[02:27–04:42]

• John Cassidy explains that Obama’s plan closely resembles the Senate bipartisan immigration reform bill, with a key difference: it isn't a law, but an executive action using prosecutorial discretion.
• Obama’s action:
  • Increases border security.
  • Eases restrictions for high-skilled immigrants.
  • Crucially, removes the threat of deportation for approximately 5 million undocumented immigrants with family ties in the US, provided they pay back taxes and have no criminal record.
• While past presidents (Eisenhower, Reagan, George H.W. Bush, Clinton) also used executive authority on immigration, Obama’s action is on a much larger scale.

“The biggest one was George H.W. Bush’s 1990 plan… that applied to about 1.5 million people… this is 5 million.” — John Cassidy [04:08]

2. Historical Nativism and Contemporary Xenophobia

[04:42–05:54]

• The discussion links current anti-immigrant sentiment to America’s historical pattern of nativism, usually rising during periods of high immigration.
• Notably, the current wave is not matched by historic levels of new arrivals, suggesting it is more about political and cultural anxieties than numbers.
• Right-wing media and politicians amplify these frustrations, tapping into both conservative bases and disaffected Democrats.

“It’s a symptom of a kind of distillation process that’s going on on the right in the United States.” — John Cassidy [05:09]

3. Political Strategy: Risks and Rewards for Obama

[05:54–07:39]

• Obama’s move is risky, potentially increasing Republican opposition in Congress.
• However, it's a calculated step to unite and energize the Democratic coalition—especially Hispanic voters—ahead of 2016.
• The strategy could further divide Republicans between hardliners and establishment figures.

“If Democrats are going to win in 2016, they have to put back together the Obama coalition. And now this… gives the coalition something to fight on, something to rile them up.” — John Cassidy [06:56]

4. Public Opinion and Partisan Differences

[07:39–08:39]

• Polling shows most Americans, including whites, support legalizing undocumented immigrants, aligning with Obama's substantive policy.
• However, unilateral executive action is less popular, creating a political paradox.

“About 55–60% of people are in favor of the substantive policy, but only between 35 or 40% are in favor of Obama going it alone.” — John Cassidy [08:17]

5. Republican Political Calculus

[09:23–10:50]

• Ryan Lizza notes Republicans’ tough stance on immigration hurt them in 2012 but proved beneficial in 2014 midterms in conservative states.
• Despite party leadership calling for reform, the grassroots remains opposed, deepening internal divisions.

“The RNC has put out an entire report talking about how they need to move off this position on immigration. And yet among… the base… it’s one of the most important issues.” — Ryan Lizza [10:12]

6. Judicial Roadblocks to Immigration Reform

[10:50–12:42]

• Jeffrey Toobin details how opponents shifted the fight to federal courts, specifically challenging Obama’s executive actions on technical grounds (e.g., the Administrative Procedures Act).
• A conservative Texas judge put the policy on hold, and the subsequent appeals were unlikely to succeed quickly.
• The courts, not Congress, have become the main battleground for major Obama-era policies—including immigration.

“Opponents of President Obama have turned to the courts to try to invalidate as much as possible of the President’s legacy. Part of that involves immigration.” — Jeffrey Toobin [11:03]

7. Supreme Court Dynamics and Obama’s Legacy

[12:42–15:42]

• Toobin and Lizza emphasize the role of the Supreme Court: Obama’s appointments haven’t shifted the court’s conservative-liberal balance, so outcomes are uncertain.
• Roberts and Kennedy are seen as pivotal justices, as their concern for the court’s reputation may outweigh partisan leanings in critical cases.
• Obama, meanwhile, focuses on defending his legacy in the courts, resigned to Congressional inaction.

“I think the way to think about Obama’s last two years is that he’s basically given up on Congress.” — Ryan Lizza [14:31] “All sorts of environmental efforts that the Obama administration is doing… will be before the courts.” — Jeffrey Toobin [15:42]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the scale of Obama’s executive action:
  “The Republicans are saying… these previous efforts are not comparable. They were… follow-ups to other immigration bills. It wasn’t what they call a sort of mass amnesty, which is how they describe this here.” — John Cassidy [04:20]

• On the strategic intent behind Obama’s move:
  “It might end up being a bit more of a cannier move than it appears.” — John Cassidy [07:19]

• On the Republican dilemma:
  “If you just look at the demographics and the electoral map, it’s very difficult to see how Republicans can win if they don’t sort of turn this Hispanic thing around.” — John Cassidy [07:23]

• On using the courts to block policy:
  “So opponents of President Obama have turned to the courts to try to invalidate as much as possible of the President’s legacy.” — Jeffrey Toobin [11:05]

Key Timestamps

| Time | Segment Description | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:16 | Introduction and episode theme | | 02:27 | Obama’s action vs. Senate bill—similarities and key differences| | 04:42 | Historical context of nativism and current anxieties | | 05:54 | Obama’s political risks and the split in the GOP | | 07:39 | Public opinion and partisan differences in immigration | | 09:23 | GOP’s political costs and midterm dynamics | | 10:50 | The court battles and Texas judge’s role in halting reforms | | 12:42 | Supreme Court dynamics and Obama’s legacy | | 14:31 | Obama’s pivot to courts and focus on legacy defense |

Summary

“The Party Positions on Immigration” pulls back the curtain on the deep divides and political calculations shaping America’s immigration debate circa 2015. The episode navigates Obama’s attempt at reform through executive action, Republican party fault lines, polling paradoxes, and the consequential intervention of the courts. A must-listen for anyone seeking clarity on how immigration became a defining litmus test across partisan lines heading into the crucial 2016 campaign.