The Russian Activist Maria Pevchikh on the Fate of Alexey Navalny

The Political Scene | The New Yorker
Host: David Remnick
Guest: Maria Pevchikh, head of investigations and media for the Anti-Corruption Foundation and executive producer of the Oscar-nominated documentary Navalny
Date: March 6, 2023

Overview

This episode of The Political Scene features David Remnick interviewing Maria Pevchikh, a close ally of Russian opposition leader Alexey Navalny. The conversation delves into the evolution of Navalny’s public persona, the regime’s repressive response to his anti-corruption work, the events surrounding his poisoning, Pevchikh’s own involvement, and her perspective on Russia’s future and the opposition’s prospects. The interview also touches upon the emotional and political costs of resistance both inside and outside of Russia, as well as the global visibility brought by the documentary Navalny.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Maria Pevchikh’s Journey into Activism

• Early Awareness & Search for Change (03:37)

  • Grew up recognizing early under Putin that “something is going awfully wrong.”
  • Sought a movement to join and saw Navalny as “most likely to deliver change.”
  • Quote (Pevchikh, 03:53):
    “Navalny represented a real person in politics... The way that he was framing that debate was so attractive, he could interest anybody in the topic.”

• Political Apathy and the Appeal of Navalny (04:16–05:35)

  • Describes a Russian environment where political participation was discouraged or seen as pointless.
  • Navalny stood out for making corruption “interesting” and recruiting talented, often apolitical Russians to his cause.

• Navalny’s Early Impact and Movement Growth (05:35–07:13)

  • 2013 mayoral campaign saw mass volunteerism from Russia’s urban middle class.
  • “Thousands and thousands of Muscovites leaving their day jobs to... spend their evening volunteering.”

2. The Regime’s Response and Escalating Danger

• Regime Tolerance and the Turning Point (07:13–08:54)

  • Putin tolerated dissent only up to the point where Navalny attracted supporters, even those thought to be core Putin voters.
  • Widespread support, even in remote and hostile regions, broke the “myth” that Navalny only appealed to urban elites.

• Escalation of Threats & Surveillance (09:08–10:14)

  • Years of predicting an assassination attempt; the FSB’s surveillance began as Navalny’s influence widened.
  • Quote (Pevchikh, 09:55):
    “Have they tried to poison him earlier? Maybe. Maybe it just didn’t work.”

3. The 2020 Poisoning Ordeal

• Method and State Narrative (10:14–13:15)

  • Russian state’s elaborate plan to kill Navalny via poisoning, followed by quick dissemination of disinformation.

  • Pevchikh was herself targeted as a possible scapegoat by authorities.

  • Remnick (10:14):
    “It brought to mind, in an almost perverse way, a James Bond movie... why go to all this crazy trouble?”

  • Pevchikh (10:48):
    “The plan was... enough for him to pass out... This would have remained a mysterious death... Within hours of the poisoning, they had a theory that it’s either Navalny’s health or it was me who poisoned him.”

4. Decision to Return to Russia

• No Deliberation—A Question of Integrity (13:53–15:18)
  • Navalny resolved to return as soon as he woke from his coma: “He has built his career... by telling people that they shouldn’t be afraid.”
  • The team planned for every possible scenario regarding Navalny’s fate upon return.

5. Navalny’s Life and Communication from Prison

• Maintaining Connection & Health Updates (15:21–16:44)

  • Stays in contact and relays information through his lawyers.

  • Suffers long-term effects from nerve agent poisoning, including severe back problems.

  • Quote (Pevchikh, 16:44):
    “Your entire nerve system just shuts down completely and entirely... Nobody knows how this actually affects a person long term.”

6. Putin’s Likely Intentions for Navalny

• Prolonged Suffering and Uncertainty (17:31–18:16)

  • Pevchikh is convinced Putin wants him to suffer in prison before dying.

  • Quote (Pevchikh, 17:37):
    “Oh, I think Putin wants him to suffer a lot first and then die in prison. Of course he wants that.”

• Emotional Reality of the Opposition (18:16–19:36)

  • Describes living daily with the possibility of Navalny’s death as a trauma and a “self-defense mechanism.”
  • Remains focused on hope and possibility for his release.

7. Scenarios for Navalny’s Future & Russian Change

• Possible Release Tied to Regime Change (19:36–20:52)

  • Chaotic wartime conditions could either help or hurt Navalny’s chances for release.

  • Any post-Putin government, “even if it’s the worst you can imagine,” would likely free Navalny as a symbolic gesture or bargaining chip.

  • Quote (Pevchikh, 19:52):
    “It could be a condition, a release, a mass release of political prisoners... peace talks and reparation talks.”

8. The Russian Diaspora, Loss, and Compromise

• Mass Exodus of Russia’s Best and Brightest (20:52–24:17)
  • Pevchikh is “sad” about the brain drain, estimating about 20% will never return even if Russia democratizes.
  • She resists judging those who compromised with the regime, but is clear:
    “They lost... and along the way, they've lost the integrity and the honesty.”

9. The Power of International Attention (The Oscar Moment)

• Using the World Stage (24:17–25:53)
  • Pevchikh’s mission is to amplify Navalny’s cause globally, including at high-profile events like the Oscars.
  • Quote (Pevchikh, 24:46):
    “From day one of Navalny’s imprisonment, my main job... is to climb on the highest mountain and scream and shout from the mountaintop: Navalny. Free Navalny.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Navalny’s unique appeal:
  “The way that he was phrasing things... was so attractive, he could interest anybody in the topic, which normally isn’t really interesting.”
  — Maria Pevchikh (03:53–04:16)

• On the risk and randomness of assassination attempts:
  “How come you’re still alive?... I don’t know why they have decided to do this when they did it in August 2020.”
  — Maria Pevchikh (09:08–09:55)

• On the regime's attempts to smear her:
  “According to the Russian propaganda, the main theory that they share... is that I poisoned him.”
  — Maria Pevchikh (12:10–13:15)

• On Navalny’s decision to return:
  “If you ask people to be brave... and then yourself, you make not the most courageous choice. Right.”
  — Maria Pevchikh (13:53)

• On the consequences of nerve agent attack:
  “Nobody knows what, how this... affects a person long term.”
  — Maria Pevchikh (16:44)

• On emotionally coping with Navalny’s plight:
  “I’ve lived through him dying in front of me once and I didn’t like that experience at all. And I don’t want to come back to it.”
  — Maria Pevchikh (18:16)

• On the potential release of Navalny:
  “Any next president after Putin... would release Navalny. It could be a condition... for lifting some sanctions.”
  — Maria Pevchikh (19:52)

• On the diaspora’s loss and the failure of compromise:
  “Let’s now all gather and draw a very simple conclusion. This strategy didn’t work. They’ve lost the radio stations, the TV channels... they've lost the integrity and the honesty.”
  — Maria Pevchikh (24:17)

• On her public mission:
  “It is literally my job to grab that attention and to point it not at myself but at Navalny.”
  — Maria Pevchikh (25:38)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:37–07:13: Pevchikh recounts her gradual involvement in the anti-corruption movement and Navalny’s early impact.
• 09:08–10:14: Heightening danger, FSB surveillance, and discussions about the risk of assassination.
• 10:14–13:15: Details of Navalny’s poisoning and Kremlin’s disinformation efforts, including attempts to frame Pevchikh.
• 13:53–15:18: No-hesitation decision for Navalny to return to Russia after his recovery.
• 15:21–17:31: How Navalny communicates from prison and the state of his health.
• 17:31–19:36: Pevchikh’s view on Putin’s intentions and coping with the possibility of Navalny’s death.
• 19:36–20:52: Prospects of Navalny’s release under different postwar scenarios.
• 20:52–24:17: The Russian “brain drain,” emigration, and failed strategies of compromise.
• 24:17–25:53: The global megaphone moment provided by the Oscars and Pevchikh’s determination to keep Navalny’s plight in the spotlight.

This conversation illuminates the high personal and societal stakes in Russia’s current political crisis, the human drive behind activist resistance, and the importance of international visibility for political prisoners like Navalny.