The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Episode: The Washington Roundtable’s 2025 in Review
Date: December 13, 2025
Host: Susan Glasser
Guests: Evan Osnos, Jane Mayer

Overview

In this special year-end episode, Susan Glasser, Jane Mayer, and Evan Osnos revisit and assess the most shocking and surprising developments of Donald Trump’s first year back in the White House during his second term. They explore the persistent sense of chaos, the surprising effectiveness of Trump’s more radical agenda, the failures of key American institutions to resist, and the unsettling new normal in U.S. political and civil life. The panel reflects on where their own assumptions and predictions failed, what stunned them most, and where they see glimmers of resistance and hope amid profound democratic backsliding.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump 2.0: More Radical, Faster, and More Effective than Expected

• Jane Mayer opens by acknowledging her surprise at how much more radical and aggressive Trump’s second term has been compared to his first. She notes how quickly Trump and his allies have dismantled decades of achievements and how successful they’ve been in delivering significant blows to American norms and institutions.

  “I did not see that Trump 2.0 would be so much more radical and so much more sweeping and successful in achieving what it was aiming for than Trump 1.0.” — Jane Mayer (03:19)

• She expresses astonishment at how little pushback emerged from civil society, especially sectors like elite law firms and Ivy League universities, which she expected would resist.

  “I've been really surprised at how quickly the places that I thought would resist folded instead.” — Jane Mayer (03:52)

2. Institutional Weakness: The Failure to Resist

• All three panelists zero in on the collapse of institutional resistance:
  • Law Firms: Chose to pay off the Trump administration rather than uphold legal protections.

    “The law firms that instead of upholding the rule of law... they paid a chunk of change to Trump so that they could just stay in business. And those famous litigators didn't fight.” — Jane Mayer (04:24)

  • Universities: Allowed Trump to appoint monitors and dictate faculty hiring; caved instead of coordinating resistance.

  “Several of them, as we know, just folded in both these sectors.” — Jane Mayer (04:42)

  • Congress: Total abdication of the legislative branch’s constitutional powers in the face of the executive.

    “I would have thought they would at least defend their own branch and their constitutional authority... And we've seen the congressional branch just completely bow down to the White House.” — Jane Mayer (10:44)

3. The Normalization of Outrage and Erosion of Accountability

• Evan Osnos critiques the normalization of outrage:

  “There is some portion of our readers and listeners who will always say... you shouldn't be surprised. But, frankly, you can't say that you're never surprised by any wrongdoing. That's... a kind of resignation and despair. So I actually think that surprise is important.” — Evan Osnos (05:36)

• Susan Glasser discusses how even being prepared for Trump’s vengeful stance didn’t truly equip people for the scale of what followed:

  “We actually did understand in a sort of on paper way what it was that the approach was going to be... But that's where I come back to this category of what I would call almost the failure of imagination.” — Susan Glasser (07:03)

4. "Shock and Awe" Politics: Predictable Chaos, Unprecedented Moves

• Trump’s relentless push to upend tradition, disregard the rule of law, and prioritize loyalty above all has become “predictable chaos.”

  “He so rarely surprises us now. We thought we'd try to do something different... were there moments where we were actually both shocked and surprised?” — Susan Glasser (01:24)

• Discussing the lack of surprise:
  • Actions like pardoning rioters, installing troops in the streets, or instating extreme policies are simultaneously hyperbolic and, in a chilling way, expected.
  • Yet certain events—like Trump unleashing Elon Musk to destroy foreign aid or engineering attacks on academic research—still managed to shock even these seasoned observers.

5. Failures and Flickers of Resistance

• Jane Mayer laments the lack of organized, collective resistance in U.S. culture:

  “We are a culture of individualism... The universities... should have worked together. The journalism profession should have stood together... But I think that muscle is very weak in this country.” — Jane Mayer (13:58)

• Evan Osnos highlights instances of grassroots opposition, such as volunteer whistle patrols warning about ICE and street protests, as significant (though not tide-turning) forms of resistance. He notes the contrast between grassroots energy and institutional passivity.

  “One of the ways that individuals out in the country are expressing their rage and their hostility... individuals have stood up and institutions have not.” — Evan Osnos (12:20)

• Press Freedom: The press corps completely unprepared for Trump’s attack on the Associated Press—colleagues failed to show solidarity.

  “There was basically almost no one there... their colleagues basically did nothing.” — Susan Glasser (15:55)

6. Surprises, Shocks, and Memorable Moments — The Lightning Round

Segment starting at 27:13

Big Stunners:

• Mass Pardons & Venezuela:
  • Trump’s pardon of 1,500 January 6th rioters and the unexpected intervention in Venezuela.

    “I have to say, I don't think that there were all that many people who predicted that he would actually pardon the 1,500 rioters... I did not predict Venezuela.” — Evan Osnos (27:34) “He literally blew [the East Wing]... If you told me that Donald Trump was going to put a lot of tacky gold all over the White House, obviously not surprised or stunned by that.” — Susan Glasser (28:10)

• Destruction of Foreign Aid:
  • Especially the handing over of USAID to Elon Musk, who gutted aid without oversight.

    “I actually still think it's shocking that he unleashed the world's richest man to basically run amok and shut things down without any process, without any rule of law, without any official powers and defying Congress's spending powers.” — Susan Glasser (30:27)

• Attack on Science:
  • Research funding slashed under the guise of anti-DEI policies, undermining America's scientific preeminence.

    “Blows my mind... the idea that it would cut into America's legendary R&D, scientific and technological prowess is something that I never saw mentioned.” — Susan Glasser (31:31)

• Wall Street Journal Stands Up:
  • Surprisingly, the WSJ (owned by Murdoch) is one of the few major media giants to fight Trump in court.

    “With all of the major corporate media companies... that the one that said, ‘See me in court’... is the Wall Street Journal.” — Jane Mayer (33:59)

• Grand Jury Resistance:
  • Grand juries refusing to indict—unheard of and a new form of legal defiance.

    “Whoever thought that grand juries were going to refuse to indict... they are rebelling from the jury room, which is unheard of.” — Jane Mayer (34:47)

7. The Failure of American Checks and Balances

• The Panel Examines how:
  • Two impeachments haven’t produced accountability—Congressional impeachment is now a “dead letter.”

    “The constitutional tool of accountability for president is a dead letter right now. In our politics.” — Susan Glasser (22:04)

  • Supreme Court, now with a Trump-appointed majority, has granted sweeping immunity to the president.

    “Immunity leads to impunity. And you've got...” — Jane Mayer (22:37)

• Evan Osnos looks to the future, noting a rare case where state-level GOP officials (in Indiana) rejected Trump’s redistricting scheme, hinting at potential fractures in his power base.

  “It was Republicans... who said, no, we're not gonna do that. We don't think that this is right for us and right for our state.” — Evan Osnos (24:40)

8. Economic Disillusionment & Trump’s Waning Approval

• Despite branding himself as the "economy guy," Trump’s approval ratings on the economy have tanked, surprising panelists.

  “He always had this economy floating him... But he always had this economy floating him. Right?... Only 31% of Americans supporting Trump on the economy. That is even worse than the 36% approval rating he has right now.” — Susan Glasser (18:58)

• Paradox: Widespread frustration with affordability, inequality, yet little outrage over Trump’s personal enrichment.

  “How is it that people can be... frustrated by their inability to participate in this economy... and at the same time just kind of shrug at the fact that this guy is... gone from whatever it was, $50 million to more than $800 million.” — Evan Osnos (20:50)

9. Cult of Personality and the “Tony Soprano” Theory

• Systemic malaise and resignation enable Trump’s unchecked power.

  “What are you gonna do? What are you gonna do about this? I mean, it's just like people don't know what they can do. They need to be shown a course of action, I think.” — Jane Mayer (22:50)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the new normal:

  “What do we do in a world where we're constantly shocked and never surprised?” — Susan Glasser (01:23)

• On institutional failure:

  “Matching ambition, as the founders said. And the branch is checking each other. And we've seen the congressional branch just completely bow down to the White House.” — Jane Mayer (10:48)

• On enforcement of power:

  “It's almost the inanity of it that is the show of power... what he's really saying is, I have total control over you.” — Jane Mayer (32:53)

• On individual vs collective action:

  “We're a culture of individualism... the lesson I take is they should have worked together.” — Jane Mayer (13:59)

• On the end of checks and balances:

  “The constitutional tool of accountability for president is a dead letter right now.” — Susan Glasser (22:05)

• On the year’s biggest stunner:

  “I did not predict Venezuela.” — Evan Osnos (27:37)

• On surprising resistance:

  “That the one that said, ‘See me in court,’ and took him on is the Wall Street Journal, which is owned by Rupert Murdoch...” — Jane Mayer (33:59)

• On the next year:

  “There is this tug of war going on about what kind of country we will be at the end of this process. And it's not just about how the big institutions will behave. It's also about how regular people behave every day...” — Evan Osnos (35:07)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Opening reflections & prompt: 01:23
• Jane Mayer on radicalism & surprise: 03:19 – 06:50
• Institutional weakness & absence of resistance: 09:17 – 13:52
• The individual vs the collective: 13:52 – 17:10
• Example: the Press Corps capitulates: 15:55 – 17:10
• Economic narrative upended: 18:40 – 20:50
• On accountability, immunity, and impunity: 22:01 – 23:18
• Supreme Court’s shocking role: 23:18 – 24:25
• State-level rebuff of Trump: 24:25 – 25:36
• Lightning round - big stunners: 27:13 – 35:03
• Final thoughts on hope and resistance: 35:07 – 35:53

Conclusion

The episode is a wide-ranging, honest reckoning with the panelists’ own failed predictions and a candid assessment of Trump’s shocking successes in upending American democracy. The conversation exposes the limits of institutional resistance, the corrosive effects of normalization, and the surprising ways in which both outrage and resignation have reshaped American public life. Yet, it also acknowledges unexpected sources of resistance—whether in the form of street-level activism, unexpected legal pushback, or isolated journalistic stands—leaving open the question of what kind of country the United States will be at the end of Trump’s term, and highlighting the urgent need for imagination, solidarity, and collective action in the face of democratic erosion.