The Political Scene | The New Yorker Episode Title: Theresa May’s Brexit Saga Continues, with No End in Sight
Date: March 15, 2019
Host: Dorothy Wickenden
Guest: Sam Knight, New Yorker staff writer

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the extraordinary week in British politics as Prime Minister Theresa May’s Brexit deal suffers repeated defeats in the House of Commons. With Brexit looming just two weeks away, Dorothy Wickenden and Sam Knight break down the chaos, analyze the unprecedented moves within Parliament, and discuss the potential future scenarios for the UK, May’s leadership, and the prospects for another referendum. The conversation brings clarity and context to an intensely complex and shifting political crisis.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Current Brexit Crisis in Parliament

[01:16–03:13]

• After two and a half years of negotiation, the UK is two weeks from its original March 29 EU exit date.
• Parliament dramatically rejected May’s Brexit deal for a second time by 149 votes (the first defeat in January was by 230 votes, an all-time record).
• Following the defeat, MPs voted on several options, notably:
  • Formally rejecting a “no-deal” Brexit.
  • Approving a delay to the UK’s departure from the EU.

“It was defeated for the first time back in January by 230 votes, which was the largest ever defeat for a sitting government in British political history…”
— Sam Knight [03:31]

2. What Does “Revoking Article 50” Mean?

[04:53–06:05]

• Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty is the EU legal mechanism for leaving.
• Theoretically, the UK could unilaterally revoke Article 50 and remain, but politically this would be explosive and seen as betraying the 2016 referendum result.

“It's been tested in the courts, and that's the general theory that we could just unilaterally revoke it. But that would obviously kind of fly in the face of the referendum result, and it's sort of seen as politically not possible.”
— Sam Knight [05:45]

3. How Has May Remained in Power Despite Repeated Defeats?

[06:05–07:39]

• May has "more or less lost control of about a third of the Conservative Party," including cabinet ministers voting against her.
• The government nearly lost its grip on the parliamentary process itself, with MPs coming close to seizing control of Commons business.

“Last night we had a vote in which MPs suggested that they take over how business operates in the House of Commons...which is something that really doesn't happen in British politics, and they failed by two votes.”
— Sam Knight [07:08]

4. Labour’s Dilemma and Jeremy Corbyn

[07:39–09:26]

• Both major parties are deeply split on Brexit, with supporters holding opposing views within each.
• Corbyn, while personally Euroskeptic, is politically ambiguous on Brexit. He faults the government for the mess but avoids clear positions.
• Labour’s silence frustrates pro-Remain supporters and those wanting leadership on the issue but is seen as politically expedient.

“They want power...it suits Labour to not really say very much. That's highly frustrating for a lot of their supporters who are very emotionally invested in this, but that's how they've played this so far.”
— Sam Knight [08:36]

5. Party Fractures and the New Independent Group

[10:59–12:26]

• A group of Labour and Conservative MPs break off to form the “Independent Group,” now a small but visible force aligned around support for a second referendum.
• Their emotional tone differs: Labour defectors somber, Conservatives elated to leave May’s Brexit.
• Unlikely to endure or hold their seats at the next election due to the tribal nature of British politics.

“The three Conservatives who went with them were sort of buoyant and skipping down the road...to be released from...Theresa May's dogged and difficult Brexit policy.”
— Sam Knight [11:52]

6. Is a Second Referendum Still Possible?

[12:26–13:38]

• Current chaos is typical for British politics: repeated votes are methods of narrowing choices over time.
• If Brexit is delayed substantially (potentially two years), May likely falls, a general election could be triggered, and a second referendum could become plausible.

“A second referendum...I don't think sounds as implausible as it has done.”
— Sam Knight [13:21]

7. The DUP, Hardline Brexiteers, and May’s Last Shot

[13:38–14:36]

• May is negotiating with the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) for crucial support.
• Fear among hardline Brexit MPs that their chance may vanish is pushing them to consider supporting May’s deal.
• The outcome of the next Commons vote is expected to be extremely close.

“The threat of a long delay or this being put off almost indefinitely is genuinely terrifying...this might be their only chance.”
— Sam Knight [14:09]

8. Broader Reflections: Why Is Sam Knight Optimistic?

[14:36–15:58]

• While not “chirpy,” Sam sees these complex processes as part of a difficult democratic reckoning — technical, rather than purely cultural, conflict.
• Yet the spectacle is widening the gulf between politicians and public, possibly fueling more political disenchantment.
• Intrigue exists in witnessing parliamentary history and unprecedented constitutional situations unfold.

“There is a feeling of disgust of what looks like the ineffectiveness of Britain's politicians at the moment. I think they are genuinely floundering with an unbelievably difficult situation.”
— Sam Knight [15:33]

9. What’s Next if May Falls?

[16:26–17:32]

• Boris Johnson and Dominic Raab are touted as possible Conservative successors.
• Sam Knight points out the numbers don’t favor hard-right Brexiteers; the party’s center is stronger. But media attention focuses on the extremes, much like in US politics.

“The weight of the party is still in the centre. But as we see in politics everywhere now, the people who attract the headlines are on the extremes...”
— Sam Knight [17:05]

Notable Quotes

• On the state of Parliament:
  “We did set new heights for what's sort of happening in the House of Commons...”
  — Sam Knight [06:30]

• On divided parties:
  “Both of the parties are fractured...Brexit itself is...not exactly a question of a left right or a question of values even. It's this awkward technical problem.”
  — Sam Knight [09:18]

• On the long-term consequences:
  “The long term consequence of this is not going to enhance politicians in anybody's minds and it will only...fuel these more worrying forces in our politics at the moment.”
  — Sam Knight [15:34]

Key Timestamps

• [01:16–03:13] Setting the parliamentary scene, votes of the week
• [04:53–06:05] Explanation of Article 50 and the possibility of revocation
• [06:05–07:39] May’s grip on power and Commons chaos
• [07:39–09:26] Jeremy Corbyn, Labour’s Brexit stance, party splits
• [10:59–12:26] Formation and impact of the Independent Group
• [12:26–13:38] Prospects for a second referendum and future scenarios
• [13:38–14:36] DUP negotiations and the possibility of May’s deal passing
• [14:36–15:58] Public disenchantment, comparison with US politics, and optimism
• [16:26–17:32] Who could succeed May as Conservative leader?

Tone & Language

Throughout, the conversation is analytical, slightly weary, and wryly amused by the labyrinthine turns of British politics. Sam Knight maintains measured optimism about political processes, while acknowledging the growing gulf between politicians and the public.

Summary Prepared For:
Listeners seeking a comprehensive, clear account of the week’s Brexit crises, the logic behind parliamentary moves, and insight into the underlying political dynamics. This episode is invaluable for understanding the historic confusion and potential turning points ahead for the UK, and how Westminster’s drama reverberates far beyond Britain.