The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Episode: Trump and the Politics of Xenophobia
Host: Dorothy Wickenden
Guest: Jelani Cobb
Date: September 8, 2017

Episode Overview

This episode, hosted by Dorothy Wickenden, explores the Trump administration's decision to end DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals) and places it in the broader context of American xenophobia and anti-immigration movements. Jelani Cobb, a New Yorker staff writer and historian, discusses historical parallels, the evolution of immigration policy, and the complex political dynamics shaping modern American attitudes toward immigrants. The conversation also touches on the roles of both political parties, the shifting demographic landscape, and the political challenges of framing comprehensive immigration reform.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The End of DACA and Trump-Era Xenophobia

[01:15]–[02:25]

• On September 5, 2017, Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced the termination of DACA, arguing it was unconstitutional and harmful to American interests.
  • Sessions' statement blends national security concerns with economic and cultural anxieties about immigrants.
• Wickenden frames the discussion against recent events, including the Charlottesville white supremacist rally and Trump’s pardon of Joe Arpaio.
• Cobb: These moves collectively signal "a kind of throwback to an earlier period in American history" of open hostility and suspicion toward immigrants and minorities.

Notable Quote:

"They struck me as being a kind of throwback to an earlier period in American history…where concerns about national security neatly dovetailed with biases that happened to be against particular ethnic groups."
— Jelani Cobb [02:59]

2. Historical Context: Cycles of Anti-Immigrant Sentiment

[02:36]–[06:22]

• Cobb compares current xenophobic politics to the early 20th-century Red Scare, anti-Catholicism in the 19th and 20th centuries, the Know-Nothing Party, and the Immigration Act of 1924.
• Racial and ethnic exclusion was periodically central to American politics but would sometimes recede from prominence.
• The 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act, known as the Hart–Celler Act, is identified as a turning point toward broader inclusivity.

Notable Quote:

"…the beginning of the 20th century, we find it like, really strong resemblance to the politics and the social anxieties that we're seeing now."
— Jelani Cobb [04:09]

3. Political Reaction to Social Change

[06:22]–[07:36]

• The Obama presidency, both as the first Black president and as the child of an immigrant, embodied social and demographic change that triggered backlash.
• The two parties once found more middle ground on immigration; the original DREAM Act was bipartisan.
• The rise of the Tea Party and, later, Trumpism, reflected a shift toward "politics of resentment," making bipartisanship difficult.

Notable Quote:

"Donald Trump's political fortunes were based on his ability to paint Barack Obama not only as an illegitimate president…but someone who was, in effect, immigrant, who was not supposed to have been here."
— Jelani Cobb [07:36]

4. Populism, Party Politics, and Economic Anxiety

[07:36]–[09:59]

• Cobb outlines how economic anxieties, particularly around deindustrialization and wage stagnation, have been connected to anti-immigrant sentiment.
• Trump’s messaging capitalized on resentment and cultural fears, outmaneuvering even other Republicans like Marco Rubio who attempted bipartisan reform.

5. Democratic Party and the Limits of Rhetoric

[09:26]–[11:32]

• Discussion of Hillary Clinton’s failed attempts to build broad coalitions, notably her "basket of deplorables" comment.
  • Cobb notes the irony that her damaging comment was essentially true: polling showed substantial xenophobic and racist attitudes among Trump's base.
• Clinton’s long tenure in public life gave opponents fodder for attacks from many chapters of her career.

Notable Quote:

"Hillary Clinton was most significantly damaged by something she said that was basically true when she talked about the basket of deplorables."
— Jelani Cobb [09:59]

6. Democratic Party’s Internal Struggles

[11:32]–[12:06]

• The party is described as fractured between its progressive ("left wing") and centrist elements, with Sanders supporters remaining skeptical.
• Recent events with figures like Kamala Harris illustrate ongoing discord.

7. The Prospects and Limitations of Third Parties

[12:06]–[13:39]

• Wickenden asks about the possibility of a third party disrupting the two-party system.
• Cobb reviews American history, suggesting structural barriers like the Electoral College make this extremely difficult.
• The demographic transformation to a majority-minority society is seen as a trigger for the recent backlash.

Notable Quote:

“…we are seeing a population, a society that is becoming more brown, that at some point in the not too distant future [will] be a majority-minority society…"
— Jelani Cobb [13:10]

8. Trump’s Political Ambiguity and the GOP Dilemma

[13:44]–[14:47]

• Trump’s post-DACA-announcement tweet offering to "revisit" DACA exposes contradictions and political calculations within the GOP.
• Cobb notes the fear within the party of a populist insurrection and a lack of clarity about how to proceed.

"…it kind of makes you wonder, like, what exactly was the motivation for doing any of this if you intend to revisit it in six months, if it's not addressed through Congress?"
— Jelani Cobb [14:38]

9. Paths to Immigration Reform: Challenges and Lessons

[14:47]–[17:33]

• Wickenden and Cobb explore what responsible immigration reform could look like.
• Cobb draws a parallel between historical anxieties about African-American labor driving down wages and current arguments about undocumented immigrants.
• He suggests that, as with labor history, the solution may be inclusion (legalization, pathways to citizenship) rather than exclusion.
• The importance of crafting arguments and policies that can persuade economically anxious working-class voters is highlighted.

Notable Quote:

"It took organized labor decades to realize that the solution...was actually inviting more people into the fold of organized labor rather than excluding. And so that might be...the analogy that's applicable here..."
— Jelani Cobb [16:10]

Memorable Quotes

• "He's not only the first black president, but he is the son of someone who was allowed to come to the country for education. That's not a perspective that very many Americans have." — Jelani Cobb [06:41]
• "There's still a great deal of friction...between I guess, the left wing of the party and...the more centrist wing." — Jelani Cobb [11:36]
• "That's the hard sell." — Jelani Cobb on persuading working class voters of the benefits of immigration reform [17:31]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:15] — Introduction to DACA repeal and political context
• [02:35] — Jelani Cobb joins, discusses U.S. history of xenophobia
• [05:10] — Patterns and causes of anti-immigrant backlash
• [07:36] — Current state of partisanship and rise of resentment politics
• [09:59] — The impact of Clinton's "basket of deplorables" comment
• [12:06] — Party fragmentation and speculation about third parties
• [13:44] — Trump’s reversal on DACA and GOP challenges
• [14:47] — Paths forward for immigration reform
• [17:31] — The difficulty of changing working-class attitudes

Conclusion

Jelani Cobb and Dorothy Wickenden weave together deep historical perspective and sharp contemporary analysis to reveal how the politics of xenophobia are both an old story in American life and a potent force in the current political landscape. The episode highlights the cyclical nature of anti-immigrant backlash, the political weaponization of demographic anxieties, and the complexity of forging real immigration reform in a time of sharp partisan division and economic uncertainty. Cobb’s reflections tie past and present, emphasizing that the nation’s debates over inclusion, labor, and belonging are far from resolved.